The saddle bank

There is still a person behind the company and while this hasn't been handled well there is still time for it to be turned around. The door should be left open for TSB to rectify this situation.

It's not too late for TSB to make amends and restore their reputation. That way when anyone searches TSB they can see that while there was an issue it was resolved and that will restore confidence in the company.
 
Hi All,


My reply is not meant to be patronising, and I apologise if it has come across that way - I am simply trying to explain the situation.

The saddle is stamped 17 inch, and confirmed by Kent and Masters as a 17 inch tree.
Kent and Masters also confirmed that measuring from the cantle to the nailhead is not an accurate way of measuring a saddle as the nailheads and fixed in by eye at the end of manufacture for asthetical/branding reasons.
They serve no purpose in measuring the saddle.


I have posted screen shots of their emails confirming this already on this forum thread - please do take a look.


We ALWAYS resolve customer complaints when we are at fault.
We admit fault, accept responsibility, and resolve the situation for the customer as quickly as possible.
Hence why we are such a reputable company, with a very strong loyal customer base.


However we do have to act fairly. This lady has purchased a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD for her 14.2 hh pony. The saddle is a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD as described.
However it is too large for her pony. This is unfortunate that it does not fit. However this is the reason why we offer the trial so that if it does not fit, you have the ability to return the saddle, and have a refund, minus trial fee and postage costs.

I have to be fair to all clients and the postage costs, and trial fee is applicable in this situation.


I can assure everyone reading this thread that the saddle is a 17 inch. Not 18 inch as the lady is claiming.
Had we sent her an 18 inch saddle by mistake I would have apologised profusely had the saddle collected, issued a full refund, and tried to source her a replacement.

However this saddle is as described a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD.

Please reserve judgement of our business until you personally have used our products and services, and if you have an issue with a product or service supplied by us then please do get in touch and we are happy to work with you to find a resolution.


Kind Regards
Jade - The Saddle Bank
 
TPO said:
There is still a person behind the company and while this hasn't been handled well there is still time for it to be turned around. The door should be left open for TSB to rectify this situation.

It's not too late for TSB to make amends and restore their reputation. That way when anyone searches TSB they can see that while there was an issue it was resolved and that will restore confidence in the company.
Click to expand...

yeah. er.... oh well!
 
TheSaddleNank said:
Hi All,


My reply is not meant to be patronising, and I apologise if it has come across that way - I am simply trying to explain the situation.

The saddle is stamped 17 inch, and confirmed by Kent and Masters as a 17 inch tree.
Kent and Masters also confirmed that measuring from the cantle to the nailhead is not an accurate way of measuring a saddle as the nailheads and fixed in by eye at the end of manufacture for asthetical/branding reasons.
They serve no purpose in measuring the saddle.
Click to expand...


Wow, what an utterly cr*p response! Seems TSB have no intention of turning their image around, certainly one to bargepole for me!!
 
TheSaddleNank said:
Hi All,


My reply is not meant to be patronising, and I apologise if it has come across that way - I am simply trying to explain the situation.

The saddle is stamped 17 inch, and confirmed by Kent and Masters as a 17 inch tree.
Kent and Masters also confirmed that measuring from the cantle to the nailhead is not an accurate way of measuring a saddle as the nailheads and fixed in by eye at the end of manufacture for asthetical/branding reasons.
They serve no purpose in measuring the saddle.


I have posted screen shots of their emails confirming this already on this forum thread - please do take a look.


We ALWAYS resolve customer complaints when we are at fault.
We admit fault, accept responsibility, and resolve the situation for the customer as quickly as possible.
Hence why we are such a reputable company, with a very strong loyal customer base.


However we do have to act fairly. This lady has purchased a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD for her 14.2 hh pony. The saddle is a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD as described.
However it is too large for her pony. This is unfortunate that it does not fit. However this is the reason why we offer the trial so that if it does not fit, you have the ability to return the saddle, and have a refund, minus trial fee and postage costs.

I have to be fair to all clients and the postage costs, and trial fee is applicable in this situation.


I can assure everyone reading this thread that the saddle is a 17 inch. Not 18 inch as the lady is claiming.
Had we sent her an 18 inch saddle by mistake I would have apologised profusely had the saddle collected, issued a full refund, and tried to source her a replacement.

However this saddle is as described a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD.

Please reserve judgement of our business until you personally have used our products and services, and if you have an issue with a product or service supplied by us then please do get in touch and we are happy to work with you to find a resolution.


Kind Regards
Jade - The Saddle Bank
Click to expand...
Out of interest what is the correct way of measuring a saddle?
Could kent and masters not have made a mistake?
Have you actually measured the saddle yourselves?
 
TSB- it might be described as a 17” saddle, but it’s not. So you did send an 18” saddle out, whether you realised it or not. I agree, this is not your fault, but it is not the customers fault either. For the sake of your business, I would try to put this right and chalk it down to experience (and measure all saddles when they come in!)
 
A friend ordered a K&M from TSB a month or so ago, and it arrived in great condition. She said she was quite pleased with it in person. However, she did no trial since she's not within the UK. She ordered a 17" and had no issues.

In this case the saddle is stamped a 17" and measuring 18" from nailhead to cantle. K&M, according to TSB is stating that this is not a way to accurately measure a saddle. So then, what is?

TSB could post measurements in the form of a photo with tape measure in their ads for each saddle. They'd just have to find a way to measure as a standard.
I do believe that TSB believed this saddle to be a true 17" and maybe it is. I don't believe there was any known false advertising or trickery here. However, I, if I were TSB, would have paid/refunded the customer's shipping charge. While it is a trial, and they are in place to see if a saddle fits, and this one didn't, taking a bit of a loss and providing above and beyond customer service here and there will earn you more business in the long run. You can't be short sighted here.

It's kind of an odd battle though because if you do it for one, you might have others coming up with all sorts of BS to get out of shipping charges. I feel the odds of that are slim, however.

I don't totally agree with TSB from a customer service perspective, but when I buy or try a used saddle and it comes up long, I would've just sent it back and not made a fuss. It is a risk buying a saddle online. I find it interesting how things have sort of blown up here. Then again, maybe I'm a doormat!
 
i spent ages online looking for the saddle and trying to decide who to buy from, in the end the offer of a 5 day trial is what persuaded me to use The Saddle Bank, and i accepted that there was a trial fee attached, which was not hidden or put on me last minute. And i am glad i did. Saved me from buying privately and potentially getting lumbered with the saddle

When it came to returning the saddle it was picked up promptly and returned. And they even advised me on what i could look to purchase moving forward (even though they didnt have this particular model in stock.).

Why would it be fair for the OP to get a full refund and not me? its very easy to blame somebody else. its a fantastic service (being able to trial- as i have purchased elsewhere aswell) but its people like you guys that will force these companies to stop offering trials.

If you dont want to risk it, just buy brand new. very simple!
 
To be fair the gpd saddle is advertised as having a 'generous seat', so I would expect it to measure over 17 inches even if the tree is that size.
 
Pony675 said:
i spent ages online looking for the saddle and trying to decide who to buy from, in the end the offer of a 5 day trial is what persuaded me to use The Saddle Bank, and i accepted that there was a trial fee attached, which was not hidden or put on me last minute. And i am glad i did. Saved me from buying privately and potentially getting lumbered with the saddle

When it came to returning the saddle it was picked up promptly and returned. And they even advised me on what i could look to purchase moving forward (even though they didnt have this particular model in stock.).

Why would it be fair for the OP to get a full refund and not me? its very easy to blame somebody else. its a fantastic service (being able to trial- as i have purchased elsewhere aswell) but its people like you guys that will force these companies to stop offering trials.

If you dont want to risk it, just buy brand new. very simple!
Click to expand...
You trialled a saddle you thought might fit, it was as described and as expected. It did not fit. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
OP trialled a saddle which does not measure as would be expected for a 17 inch saddle. The manufacturer claims the standard saddle measurement of pin to cantle is not correct however it is a standardised way, widely used and accepted as the way we all measure seats.
You got what you expected. It did not fit. Ergo you pay the fee, and as a bonus you got some help going forward.
The OP did not get what they expected and it did not fit. Its poor service to insist on paying the trial fee, OP didnt trial it, it was never going to fit.
Had this been sold on ebay we all know which way the case would go
 
I know which way this would've gone if it happend here in Germany...exactly the way it is going!

I have dealt with some lovely people and companies, but for the most part, everything is your (the customer's) fault it seems! "Nothing is free."

Sweeping generalization, I know, but OH and I have many stories.
 
Roxylola said:
You trialled a saddle you thought might fit, it was as described and as expected. It did not fit. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
OP trialled a saddle which does not measure as would be expected for a 17 inch saddle. The manufacturer claims the standard saddle measurement of pin to cantle is not correct however it is a standardised way, widely used and accepted as the way we all measure seats.
You got what you expected. It did not fit. Ergo you pay the fee, and as a bonus you got some help going forward.
The OP did not get what they expected and it did not fit. Its poor service to insist on paying the trial fee, OP didnt trial it, it was never going to fit.
Had this been sold on ebay we all know which way the case would go
Click to expand...

I am over it. i was just trying to point out that if you offer it for one you must offer it. i was very happy with the service i received. I am no expert but a 17inch saddle is going to be too big for a 14.2 pony regardless of whether it was exactly 17inch?. i just feel lots of people are on here slating a company and their overall service based off of one customer (and most commenters probably havent used the service).
 
Re a 17inch being too big for a 14.3 pony. Really depends on the pony, to be fair.

People have expressed their opinions here (discussion board and all that). A potential customer of TSB can still decide on their own to purchase or trial from them. They are free to make their own decisions. Maybe this thread has influence, maybe not. Everything has been factual, it seems, there is just a varying in opinion from the way it was handled from a customer service perspective. Personally, I wouldn't jump on the boat of OMG I would never ever use this company, but people are free to take their money where they wish.
 
cobgoblin said:
To be fair the gpd saddle is advertised as having a 'generous seat', so I would expect it to measure over 17 inches even if the tree is that size.
Click to expand...
This is what I'm curious about - are we sure this isn't just how these K&M saddles measure? As in, this saddle has not been mislabelled or anything like that, but is simply a standard size for this brand of saddle. I know I trialled a 17" K&M saddle (also on a 14.2hh) pony and I thought it looked very large compared to a 17" Wintec.
 
TPO said:
No it's not.

TPO, trained/qualified saddle fitter and owner of 14.2hh 17" saddle wearing pony and 14.3hh 17.5" saddle wearing pony
Click to expand...

I have a 14.2 here that has 2 18" saddles I think the 3rd is 17.5, the 15.2 is in a 17" it depends so much on the horse as well as the saddle, last year we had a struggle to find a saddle for a very compact 15.2 mare she ended up in a 16" for a while and is now in a 16.5, luckily her rider is not too tall.
 
Wizpop said:
But surely, if the saddle has been measured accurately, and using recommended method then it must be correct- tape measures do not lie.
Also, a whole inch in the positioning of the nail head is a lot on a saddle.
Taking these points into account, should we not all be “officially”advised to measure saddles before we buy them?
There doesn’t seem much point in stamping a saddle with a size if it isn’t accurate.
I think I would still be pursuing this with Society of Master Saddlers regarding clarification re measuring.
And yes, the buyers contract is with the seller, not the manufacturer. Am surprised that TSB are not aware of this.
Click to expand...
Trust me tape measures can be made to lie. Sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally. The stretched cloth plastic tape or even a metal tape can be compromised. Suggest tsb gets a metal ruler and posts this pic showing the whole ruler against the saddle in future.

Not good customer service especially making comments public. Poor form
 
be positive said:
I have a 14.2 here that has 2 18" saddles I think the 3rd is 17.5, the 15.2 is in a 17" it depends so much on the horse as well as the saddle, last year we had a struggle to find a saddle for a very compact 15.2 mare she ended up in a 16" for a while and is now in a 16.5, luckily her rider is not too tall.
Click to expand...
*raises hand*
my 14.2 also has an 18" saddle, she's a loooooooong horse and saddle has upswept panels.
 
TheSaddleNank said:
Hi All,

Please find below confirmation of the saddle size from Kent and Masters.
They have also advised RE the nail heads that they are fitted by eye, and therefore this is not an accurate method of measuring a saddle.

Unfortunately on this occasion I cannot do anymore to reassure the client that it is a 17 inch saddle, as described, and sold.

If you have any concerns or comments about the products or services we offer at The Saddle Bank please do feel free to get in touch directly and we are more than happy to discuss with you.

- The Saddle Bank




View attachment 48289View attachment 48290
Click to expand...

Except what the client is looking for is not reassurance that it's a 17" saddle but acknowledgment that despite being stamped 17" is fact an 18" saddle by measurement and a commitment to resolve the situation to the customer's satisfaction...neither of which has happened
 
OP, can I ask what made you choose a K&M GPD? Had you been recommended that one would fit by a saddle fitter, or tried a similar one belonging to a friend, for instance? I used to own a 17.5” K&M GPD, and it was a very generous fit, but it was fitted to me and that horse by a saddle fitter. Different makes of nominally the same size do fit very differently. I have a 17” Equipe fitting nicely on a horse who was drowned by a 17” K&M GP, for instance.

I would be interested to hear how K&M measure their trees, I presume they measure the naked tree before it is built up into a saddle?
 
TheSaddleNank said:
Hi All,


My reply is not meant to be patronising, and I apologise if it has come across that way - I am simply trying to explain the situation.

The saddle is stamped 17 inch, and confirmed by Kent and Masters as a 17 inch tree.
Kent and Masters also confirmed that measuring from the cantle to the nailhead is not an accurate way of measuring a saddle as the nailheads and fixed in by eye at the end of manufacture for asthetical/branding reasons.
They serve no purpose in measuring the saddle.


I have posted screen shots of their emails confirming this already on this forum thread - please do take a look.


We ALWAYS resolve customer complaints when we are at fault.
We admit fault, accept responsibility, and resolve the situation for the customer as quickly as possible.
Hence why we are such a reputable company, with a very strong loyal customer base.


However we do have to act fairly. This lady has purchased a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD for her 14.2 hh pony. The saddle is a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD as described.
However it is too large for her pony. This is unfortunate that it does not fit. However this is the reason why we offer the trial so that if it does not fit, you have the ability to return the saddle, and have a refund, minus trial fee and postage costs.

I have to be fair to all clients and the postage costs, and trial fee is applicable in this situation.


I can assure everyone reading this thread that the saddle is a 17 inch. Not 18 inch as the lady is claiming.
Had we sent her an 18 inch saddle by mistake I would have apologised profusely had the saddle collected, issued a full refund, and tried to source her a replacement.

However this saddle is as described a 17 inch Kent and Masters GPD.

Please reserve judgement of our business until you personally have used our products and services, and if you have an issue with a product or service supplied by us then please do get in touch and we are happy to work with you to find a resolution.


Kind Regards
Jade - The Saddle Bank
Click to expand...
Except it measures 18” which WAS NOT stated on the saddle specifications. I am not ‘claiming’ this, it actually does. I have also sent you pictures. Of course it will be too long for my pony who needs a 17” saddle, hence me buying a 17” saddle. I have sent the saddle back, it will be with you today. You will do what you think is right whether I agree or not. I am fed up of this now, so I will await my refund and buy elsewhere.
 
Tiddlypom said:
OP, can I ask what made you choose a K&M GPD? Had you been recommended that one would fit by a saddle fitter, or tried a similar one belonging to a friend, for instance? I used to own a 17.5” K&M GPD, and it was a very generous fit, but it was fitted to me and that horse by a saddle fitter. Different makes of nominally the same size do fit very differently. I have a 17” Equipe fitting nicely on a horse who was drowned by a 17” K&M GP, for instance.

I would be interested to hear how K&M measure their trees, I presume they measure the naked tree before it is built up into a saddle?
Click to expand...
The pony had one when I tried her, it didn’t come with her so I saved up to get what was what I thought was the same saddle.
 
CanteringCarrot said:
A friend ordered a K&M from TSB a month or so ago, and it arrived in great condition. She said she was quite pleased with it in person. However, she did no trial since she's not within the UK. She ordered a 17" and had no issues.

In this case the saddle is stamped a 17" and measuring 18" from nailhead to cantle. K&M, according to TSB is stating that this is not a way to accurately measure a saddle. So then, what is?

TSB could post measurements in the form of a photo with tape measure in their ads for each saddle. They'd just have to find a way to measure as a standard.
I do believe that TSB believed this saddle to be a true 17" and maybe it is. I don't believe there was any known false advertising or trickery here. However, I, if I were TSB, would have paid/refunded the customer's shipping charge. While it is a trial, and they are in place to see if a saddle fits, and this one didn't, taking a bit of a loss and providing above and beyond customer service here and there will earn you more business in the long run. You can't be short sighted here.

It's kind of an odd battle though because if you do it for one, you might have others coming up with all sorts of BS to get out of shipping charges. I feel the odds of that are slim, however.

I don't totally agree with TSB from a customer service perspective, but when I buy or try a used saddle and it comes up long, I would've just sent it back and not made a fuss. It is a risk buying a saddle online. I find it interesting how things have sort of blown up here. Then again, maybe I'm a doormat!
Click to expand...
Because I am £65 out of pocket for a saddle that would never have fitted. I would not have bought it had I known it was so big.
 
Pony675 said:
i spent ages online looking for the saddle and trying to decide who to buy from, in the end the offer of a 5 day trial is what persuaded me to use The Saddle Bank, and i accepted that there was a trial fee attached, which was not hidden or put on me last minute. And i am glad i did. Saved me from buying privately and potentially getting lumbered with the saddle

When it came to returning the saddle it was picked up promptly and returned. And they even advised me on what i could look to purchase moving forward (even though they didnt have this particular model in stock.).

Why would it be fair for the OP to get a full refund and not me? its very easy to blame somebody else. its a fantastic service (being able to trial- as i have purchased elsewhere aswell) but its people like you guys that will force these companies to stop offering trials.

If you dont want to risk it, just buy brand new. very simple!
Click to expand...
Because I bought a 17” saddle which was the size I need and the saddle is 18”.
 
Pony675 said:
I am over it. i was just trying to point out that if you offer it for one you must offer it. i was very happy with the service i received. I am no expert but a 17inch saddle is going to be too big for a 14.2 pony regardless of whether it was exactly 17inch?. i just feel lots of people are on here slating a company and their overall service based off of one customer (and most commenters probably havent used the service).
Click to expand...
A 17” saddle is fine on a 14.2 and 18” is certainly not.
 
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