The second opinion

SatansLittleHelper

SatansLittleHelper

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So horse was vetted an failed on trotting in a circle as vet felt he was lame.
Second opinion vet (my own) came today and agreed there was a degree of lameness, however..he feels its a conformation issue rather than anything sinister. He said its most likely "just him" and while he cannot guarantee continued soundness he doesn't seem as negative as the original vet. He feels horse has clearly managed fine up to now so there is nothing to suggest he wont continue to do so. Also I have dropped the price a little more so he is now practically a giveaway.
Buyer has gone away to think...doesnt help that she has really fallen for him. But its her first horse and I feel morally obligated to ensure she makes the decision with her head and not her heart. But on the flip side Im not sure where to go from here if she does back out :(
 
Nobody can guarantee continued soundness. A lot depends on what you are selling the horse as.A mild unlevelness/lameness ,for a happy hacker is no great problem. And they can have a long and happy life. Unfortunately there are two sorts of happy hackers . Those such as myself ,who have now been side lined by age(and serious beatings by un named irish cob thugs)who will take a horse at face value and consider that on a soundness basis , they would be more likely to shoot the rider. Unfortunately , the other end of the market has no real experience and puts a lot of unjustified faith in the opinion of vets. The slightest imperfection is seen as a reason to reject. |Yet what they really want/need,is an experienced and safe(and generaly high mileage )horse, I do so love older horses. They still have so much to offer the right owner.
 
I would actually disagree with your vet I'm afraid. An issue with conformation which causes a horse to be unsound is about as catastrophic as it gets imo.

In your shoes I'd withdraw this horse from sale and consider offering on loan instead.
 
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I thik if she still buys him you are very lucky! A conformational lameness is not going to get better, only worse. I don't know how much you have done with him, but if it is a lot then hopefully for now he is as bad as it gets, if not a lot then I would think it just is showing properly yet.
I sold a horse to a lady on here with dire front feet, he was very cheap and no vetting, he has always been completely sound so far and long may it continue, she has a fantastic farrier who helps a lot.
 
I was about to suggest what anyMay said, I to would suggest loan to the buyer.
I suspect strongly the buyer will pull out of buying once they have slept on it I would certainly advise them to, and again like anyMay says confirmation problems causing the lameness is as serious as you get as it is very hard to improve or treat the cause of lameness.
 
I agree, you'll be very fortunate if you manage to get money for him and loaning may be your way forwards if she doesn't want to take the risk
 
Hi guys thanks for the replies...horse is 8.5 years old and has done fun rides, jumping, hacking and 2 seasons hunting with the Wynnstay. He shows absolutely no sign of lameness ever other than on a small circle??
He loves his work for sure. He has been shod all his life til he came to me in August and farrier felt his feet were good enough to try him without, so he has had no shoes since then. Not really sure if that would make a big difference but is just extra info. Since I have had him he has done very little work, just the occasional hack out on the roads with no issues at all.

ETA: The lameness shown is not severe, just mild. But lameness none the less.
 
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Bad luck lame is lame though and a first time buyer would be mad to buy IMO without nerve blocks or whatever to indentify exactly what the issue is .
Unless that she has really deep pockets .
That sort of age is often when the wheels start to fall off .
 
I buy or take on for free vet failures I be up front about that if I like the horse and feel it will do the job it's for well.
But I have several horses so one off work is not a disaster .
I can afford to spend money on a horse I like if managing a condition costs a lot.
I would not take one on on such a vague diagnoses I would need to know why the horse as lame.
I am realistic and PTS if it does not work out.
If you have one horse , if it's to be the first one you own if the heartache of a chronic condition will break your heart and eat all your money it's not a desision to be taken lightly .
 
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Gifting the horse to your buyer instead of selling may work if she only wants to pootle about on him, he may be ok to carry on doing that for many years.

The best option however is to get the horse to a decent vet clinic for a lameness work up. It generally works out cheaper in the long run than paying for a number of home visits from less experienced vets. You, and your buyer, would then have much more information to proceed with. Is this the same horse that wind sucks or am I getting you muddled with somebody else?

OP I know that you have a lot on your plate at home so you really do want this horse gone as he's not right for you. The great thing is that he is a steady ride, they are much easier to place than a lame nutjob. Hope you find a good resolution to this :).
 
Thanks guys. He is insured so at least thats something. The lady wanted him for hacking and "possibly" hunting but mainly to hack out approx 4 times a week which he is perfectly capable of right at this moment. And yes he cribs too.
I could seriously kick myself for being so naive when I bought him :o The whole situation is driving me nuts to be honest. I really dont want to keep him (I sound like a right heartless cow :( ) as my initial reasons for selling still stand. I desperately need to take some pressure off myself and work with my youngster who is currently going through a "teenage lad in lager" stage. He is going to be very hard work and I know I cant do two, I have been incredibly stupid when all is said and done :(
 
I can't think that you've been stupid. Presumably he passed a vetting when you bought him and it's only now that a problem has manifested itself.

I wonder if shoeing him would resolve the issue.
 
It's good news that he's insured. However (and I'm sorry for rubbing it in) because you didn't get him vetted when you got him it may get tricky unless you can prove the lameness was not a pre existing condition. That will depend entirely on what proves to be causing the lameness, but please be prepared that the insurance co may not pay up.

Please keep us updated as to how you are getting on.
 
If you've bothered to pay out for insurance I'd be calling them on Monday morning and getting him booked in for a full work up at the vets inc x rays, nerve blocks, scans etc as necessary to get to the bottom of it - that is what you've paid the insurance for afterall.

Once you know what you are dealing with you can make an informed decision.

If you gift him and he gets worse will she have the funds to retire him for c.20 years or the guts/ honesty to PTS or could she just pass him round to the next unsuspecting person?
 
Thanks again. No I didnt have him vetted...he wasnt expensive so I took the risk...which was stupid I know. I bought him in a rush without being cautious and I only have myself to blame to be honest.
I did consider that shoes may help as he had fronts on when I bought him.
Im just so fed up and have so much other stuff going on. I just cant believe it as you would never even think he was lame if you saw him in day to day stuff :(
 
So would it be ethical to loan her the horse as he hacks fine and be getting the investigations done at the same time?? That way I can be in control of the situation and she gets a horse without being tied if there is a major problem...that way she could potentially buy him if the lameness is a resolvable issue??
So a sort of month or so loan with a view to buy?? And get some front shoes put on.
 
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Would she loan him at your yard or move him? TBH you could get a full vet work up done by the middle of next week so rather than faf about with loan contracts and moving him, and telling insurance co he's going out on loan etc, it might be simpler to just crack on and find out.

Me personally I wouldn't take him on loan with potentially having to give him back in a week if investigations find something nasty.
 
As you have insurance I would book him straight in for a lameness workup and see what that shows, I would tell the potential buyer that you are doing this and hope they will hang on for the result, I wouldn't actually let them buy him until I had done this. Depending on what that shows you can then consider sale or loan.

If she did go ahead with buying him following a failed vetting she will not get insurance for the lameness and any investigations and treatment would have to be paid out of her own pocket which seems silly to me when you have insurance which will cover it.
 
Ok guys this is what Im going to do. Get full lameness work up done asap. Will call my vet on Monday to arrange. Potentially get him shod.
Will discuss all of this this evening with the buyer and see how she feels.
What do I do if its a non resolving issue though??
 
This is a good plan.

The worst that can happen is that the lameness is found to be permanent and deteriorating. But no one yet knows whether that is the case so just take it a step at a time, it may very well not be that bad.

You're on track to get it resolved now, so relax and take things as they come (easier said than done I know).
 
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