The second opinion

I have a very VERY wonky mare with dreadful front limb conformation (I bred her & she was born windswept). She went off to be broken in when she was five & after about 10 days was lame. She was shod, had two days off, came sound & has never been lame since (other than a couple of gravels & a bruised foot). She needs the shoes because no matter how carefully her foot is balanced weight does not travel evenly through due to her conformation. Having her shod protects the foot from uneven wear, especially in the heel area.
How you proceed from here is up to you, but shoeing can & does make a difference if poor conformation is the cause of lameness.
 
Zebedee said:
I have a very VERY wonky mare with dreadful front limb conformation (I bred her & she was born windswept). She went off to be broken in when she was five & after about 10 days was lame. She was shod, had two days off, came sound & has never been lame since (other than a couple of gravels & a bruised foot). She needs the shoes because no matter how carefully her foot is balanced weight does not travel evenly through due to her conformation. Having her shod protects the foot from uneven wear, especially in the heel area.
How you proceed from here is up to you, but shoeing can & does make a difference if poor conformation is the cause of lameness.
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It certainly solved the issue with CF as well.
 
It could simply be due to a foot imbalance. We were selling a mare last year and she was found to be slightly unlevel on one rein when lunged on concrete. A few showings with a remedial farrier put her right and she sailed through a 5 stage vetting.
 
Absolutely it could be foot balance. My new remedial farrier has spent the last few months correcting the poor balance in my 3 that he inherited from the previous guy who I had trusted :(, who was visiting every 4 to 6 weeks. New farrier works closely with my vet practice and from the x rays so it is a 2 way process.

As a result, I have 3 much happier neds.
 
I wouldn't be getting your vet to do the vetting. He sounds like he is telling you what you want to hear and brushing off the issue. lame is lame. any vet worth his salt would want to investigate not just go 'oh well work away as he's not hobbling'.
if you had a sore foot you'd not want to run or carry a heavy rucksack and the horse is lame as he is painful.
 
Personally I'd have done things differently. I'd have tested the horse myself prior to the second vetting and if it was still off on level ground then I'd have had it shod to see if that made a difference. I don't shoe any of mine for sellers/vettings but they have lived their entire lives without shoes on. Yours has only been shoeless for a few months so a little unfair and almost setting the horse up to fail. I wouldn't have had someone spend more money on another vetting until I knew the horse was sound. Out of interest, what did the hoof testers show up? Anything?
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
Hi guys thanks for the replies...horse is 8.5 years old and has done fun rides, jumping, hacking and 2 seasons hunting with the Wynnstay. He shows absolutely no sign of lameness ever other than on a small circle??
He loves his work for sure. He has been shod all his life til he came to me in August and farrier felt his feet were good enough to try him without, so he has had no shoes since then. Not really sure if that would make a big difference but is just extra info. Since I have had him he has done very little work, just the occasional hack out on the roads with no issues at all.

ETA: The lameness shown is not severe, just mild. But lameness none the less.
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Any degree of lameness like this and I would walk from a purchase I'm afraid and I suspect your buyer would too. If it is conformational, as an owner if it were my horse with such an issue I would consider going barefoot, often the hoof wears in a way that compensates for confo issues and could eliminate unsoundness in the horse.
 
Queenbee said:
Any degree of lameness like this and I would walk from a purchase I'm afraid and I suspect your buyer would too. If it is conformational, as an owner if it were my horse with such an issue I would consider going barefoot, often the hoof wears in a way that compensates for confo issues and could eliminate unsoundness in the horse.
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the horse is already without shoes and has been since august...so your remedy has already been tried!!
 
I think that there is being a little bit of a fuss made here. I've known people buy a horse for more money than that that have failed vettings, showing slight unsoundness for a split second on certain movements that have gone on to be good hacks/low level rc horses and not shown any sign of unsoundness. For that price someone will take a punt and not get the horse vetted. Personally I would get some shoes put on and readvertise, see what happens next time. The buyer will do whatever they will do. I would suggest they brought someone more experienced to see the horse and give an opinion (instructor etc). Sometimes you can get bogged down by little things on vettings, especially if you're novice and its your first horse.
 
I would like to clarify a few things.
1) MY vet did NOT do the vetting, it was an independent vet
2) The horse was NOT vetted a second time...we (the buyer and I) simply asked our own vet for a second opinion on the lameness issue. He didnt perform any other part of a vetting.
3) "I" paid for the 2nd vet to come out, not the buyer.
4) The buyer HASN'T walked away, she is still very much interested in buying the horse.
5) My vet is very good but admittedly is not one for testing this, that and the other if he genuinely believes it is unnecessary. He would be the one gaining financially.
6) BOTH vets felt that putting shoes on would be the best course of action initially to see if that helped.

Im hoping this clarifies some of the issues raised as Im losing track a little bit :o
Im just trying to figure out whats best to do as vets suggest shoes first, people here are suggesting tests first. It seems to be a minefield.
I should add that the buyer is happy to try him with shoes as a first port of call. None of this has completely put her off though obviously she needs to know the facts. Im hoping she has read the replies on here as this will give her a good varied response xx
 
Also Im not saying I wont get all the tests done etc but by the time I have paid for transport to vets and excess etc Im going to end up severely out of pocket. I have already lost several hundred pounds :(
That said, the welfare of the horse is very important so please dont think Im being completely heartless :o
 
Well that's good that the buyer is happy with doing what the vet has suggested, sounds like the way forward. Could you offer her a couple of weeks trial for a good faith measure - she can try the horse in various situations, have her own vet and instructor see him and make a decision..

If she's reading this thread, she should see that you are genuine and fair, if nothing else.

ps, I wouldn't be paying excess or travel costs for testing a horse that is only for sale for £800 and is only a tad lame under certain conditions.
 
Her vet and mine are one and the same, we only live a couple of miles from each other lol.
She has been and ridden him out a few times and is coming to take him out tomorrow too. I have effectively given her free rein as it were to ride him when she is able :)
 
or your vet is not that competent at work ups so doesn't want to suggest that but would rather take the laid back approach.
 
SusieT said:
or your vet is not that competent at work ups so doesn't want to suggest that but would rather take the laid back approach.
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Possibly but he has never baulked at making referrals in the past. I keep parrots too and he is by no means a qualified avian vet but has always been happy to refer to a QAV when he has been out of his depth. So I dont know :(
 
Well I guess that sums me up too as being a laid back person, because the first thing I'd be doing is shoe the horse again and see if that makes the difference. I wouldn't be going down the work-up route at this stage in the game I'm afraid.
 
Spring Feather said:
Well I guess that sums me up too as being a laid back person, because the first thing I'd be doing is shoe the horse again and see if that makes the difference. I wouldn't be going down the work-up route at this stage in the game I'm afraid.
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This is my gut feeling if Im honest. I have been up all night so far doing research and I think Im going to trust my vet initially and try shoes. We can go from there then. My head hurts with all the info to be honest.
Im letting the horse go for several hundred pounds less than I paid and he didnt even come with tack which Im including in this sale along with boots, rug, buckets, grooming kit etc. By the time Ive forked out transport to the vet plus the excess on the insurance Im going to be severely out of pocket...my loss is already running up to 1k as it is :(
 
For me, it's not really the money aspect, it's more that the horse was presumably sound while in shoes. He's only recently had the shoes removed and it can take some time for horses to become fully accustomed to being shoeless. My own are never shod in their lives so they have always lived like this so if any of them were to fail a vetting I would know there actually was something wrong with them and would go straight to doing work-ups. In your horse's case it's different, so for me the first port of call would be to have him shod and then redo the test again in a week or so's time. If no change *then* I'd do the work-up.
 
My farrier has said that not every horse suits being unshod...we only took the shoes off because he was delivered to me only wearing one front one and farrier suggested giving him a break from them.
I have left a message with him to call me for a discussion and get the fronts back on. My gut feeling (FWIW) is that being unshod is, at best, not helping. However if this doesnt work then I will take shoes off and then go for the work ups etc.
 
As a barefoot enthusiast I would avoid shoeing, after all, it is often considered that this masks the underlying problem AND increases concussion which is the one thing you MUST avoid.
Make sure you are providing the supplemented barefoot style diet, minerals, linseed and hi fibre, avoiding molasses/moglo and cereals.
See Rockley Farm, your insurance MIGHT stretch to re-hab there.
Having said all that I know one very experienced horseman who buys and sells horses as part of his business, he swears by proper farriery, and only uses the top man locally, I don't see it myself, if there is a problem which can be masked by shoeing, there is still a problem.
 
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OP does indicate he was bought in a hurry, and he came with one shoe on / one off, a characteristic of one particular [I should say NOT very particular] dealer round here.
Horses eat money, any money spent on your horse will never probably never be recovered, sorry, but try not to worry about that side of it, and try to enjoy your horses, that was the idea originally!
 
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SatansLittleHelper said:
My farrier has said that not every horse suits being unshod...we only took the shoes off because he was delivered to me only wearing one front one and farrier suggested giving him a break from them.
I have left a message with him to call me for a discussion and get the fronts back on. My gut feeling (FWIW) is that being unshod is, at best, not helping. However if this doesnt work then I will take shoes off and then go for the work ups etc.
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The problem with this is that the transition period from shod to unshod and sound, can take 4-8 weeks, I am not very clear on this, does a full work up require the shoes to be removed and the horse immediately inspected.
One mega advantage to barefoot over shod is that you can inspect the foot every day in detail, something you can start on straight away.
Personally I would ask your own vet and farrier to come and check the horse over, but bear in mind, their default decision may well be to shoe.
Have a good look at your insurance policy and ask your vet about this, there may be "get out" clauses, if you phone the insurance company up to ask them, it is likely the first thing they will do is ask what date the lameness was diagnosed..... and the clock starts ticking..........
So you currently have a horse insured for everything, then the next annual policy you find he is only insured for three legs, or two, or not at all!
 
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another comment [sorry if I am hogging this post]
Send for two months supply of Hoof Pro [Ebay] and get him on this straight away, plus micronised linseed from Charnwood Milling for joints: many horses show footyness when unshod, they need to have a better diet for strong growth, it is unlikely to stop the lameness as you describe, but it is worth a shot.
 
Put shoes on him give him two day lunge him your self see what he's like .
If he's sound it's over o the buyer to decide what to do.
 
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