The truth, the whole truth - barefoot footiness

cptrayes

cptrayes

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I hate two things about the internet. One is people posting things anonymously that they would not dream of posting if they could be identified. Two is people who only post when things are going right - they make everyone else feel like failures.

So, as a barefoot advocate, posting under my own name as usual, I want to let people who are struggling with footie horses, or contemplating going barefoot, know that for the first time in three years I am suddenly faced with a footie horse. It's a huge disappointment, to say the least. He's been rock crunching for over two years, but suddenly today he is feeling stones on the same track he has been on week after week.

I'm not yet sure whether this is because he no longer gets brewers yeast, as of a month ago. Or whether there is something different about the grass growth this year from the last two springs when he was fine.

So, commiserations to any other barefooters struggling with grass related footiness. And if you are considering switching to barefoot and have any doubts about your horse's sensitivity to grass, I'd hold off until the autumn.

Lots of horses have no problems whatsoever with barefoot footiness. I have another who is absolutely fine on exactly the same diet. But if you are thinking of going barefoot, do bear in mind that some of them can be difficult to manage without big restrictions in access to grass.




To answer a few questions that might come up, before they do:


Why don't you just put shoes on him?

Because every time I take the shoes off a horse its feet change so much that I can't bear to put the shoes back on and lose those improvements that I saw happening with my own eyes.

Because this "footiness" is caused by gut bacteria leaking into the bloodstream, and they will stay there affecting the horse even if I put shoes on and stop it showing. Boots are a better option for me if I have to protect his feet. That way I will still know what is going on in his bloodstream.


How can you be so cruel as to keep the horse in pain?

He's not in pain unless he treads on a big sharp stone, and even then "pain" is probably too strong a word. I will not expose him to big sharp stones until he is able to cope with them again.


Why did you stop the brewer's yeast?

The supply changed and my horses will not eat the new stuff.


Why don't you restrict his grazing?

He is already off grass from about 9am- 7pm and that has kept him absolutely fine for the last two years.


What will you do now?

Buy a muzzle tomorrow and muzzle him overnight. Put him on the activated charcoal that I have another laminitis prone horse on. Try and get him to eat the sour brewers yeast even if he does not like it.



Any other sensible suggestions would be welcome.
 
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No useful cimment as i chose to get my mare shod. But i hope you find something that will work for you and horse asap so he can soon be rock crunching again! x
 
Nothing helpful to say but would you mind explaining a bit more about diet and how it's managed? Interested in barefoot but don't really understand the diet in relation to it. Also it sounds difficult to maintain if you are restricted in management, as in if you are at a livery yard?
 
The real reason I joined this forum (before I got sidetracked) was to discuss going barefoot mainly because my mare pathologically hates the farrier and indeed we have been un able to find one who isn't scared of her. I bought her at a sale with a brand new set of shoes on (learn from that folks!) so it never occured to me that she couldn't be shod. Knowing what I now know I suspect that was her first ever set (at 12yrs). Interestingly the man who brought her home for me was fascinated by her shoes and was convinced they hadn't been put on by a qualified person.

The first farrier to come out was one I had used before on the horse I had on loan because her owner insisted, seemed like a nice chap when the going was easy. Well she was having none of it, what she does is snatches her foot back and swings her back end around, she doesn't kick or rear. So of course he belted her (as they do see other threads) and although he did get a set of shoes on her that was one farrier down. It was impossible to get another farrier the minute you say the horse isn't good at being shod they either say no or worse book an appointment and dont turn up. So the next time I booked an un suspecting one but also had my vet there to sedate her, and it all went swimmingly with no stress to all of us, (my vet is a horse owner). However although initially booking a next appointment he cried off saying he didn't want to get hurt (ahh diddums).

I contacted the CWF for their help and they said they couldn't help but my vet could shoe if he wanted (he doesn't want bless him!). So she has had her current shoes on for 12 weeks and is desperate. I'm thinking that prehaps
barefoot is the way to go but it will have to be now?

Thoughts?
 
I did share a horse who was barefoot. Owner was passionate about it. Pony spent most of his time going 'ow' over anything other than soft ground. I used to feel guilty sitting on him. And he was often lame with all sorts of foot abcesses. Think it's a brilliant idea, but we have radically changed what evolution created horses and their hooves for. So maybe shoes are part of the whole radical change??
 
There are a few barefoot horses near me. Most of those horses are oldies and retired from ridden work, but a couple who are ridden, both hack out wearing hoof boots. Perhaps you could try these for hacking over stony ground ?
 
Ive got two horses. The first an appaloosa had been shod for the last 20 years at least. When i got him i had the shoes taken off.
The effect was immediate, he had a longer stride. The look on his face reminded me of someone kicking off a pair of high heels at the end of the day.
The second horse is a tb who had terrible white line disease, had to have a hoof wall resection, fibteglass casts on the foot ( front left )abscessed for 2 months, and had pedalbone rotation.
He is bare at the back with no problems, but my farrier warned me he will never cope without shoes on the front. ( when he has pulled a shoe in the past, he is hopping lame after 8 hrs in a flat, soft paddock )
I would always follow the advice of a farrier about if a horses feet can cope barefoot. I also get my barefoot boy filed by a farrier.
Kx
 
Also. A quick question to the OP please.
You mentioned about the footiness being due to gut bacteria leaking into the bloodstream.
I have never heard of this, is this in every horse or only those on high grain diets?
Im genuinely interested to learn more.
Kx
 
Cassiethecob said:
The real reason I joined this forum (before I got sidetracked) was to discuss going barefoot mainly because my mare pathologically hates the farrier and indeed we have been un able to find one who isn't scared of her. I bought her at a sale with a brand new set of shoes on (learn from that folks!) so it never occured to me that she couldn't be shod. Knowing what I now know I suspect that was her first ever set (at 12yrs). Interestingly the man who brought her home for me was fascinated by her shoes and was convinced they hadn't been put on by a qualified person.

The first farrier to come out was one I had used before on the horse I had on loan because her owner insisted, seemed like a nice chap when the going was easy. Well she was having none of it, what she does is snatches her foot back and swings her back end around, she doesn't kick or rear. So of course he belted her (as they do see other threads) and although he did get a set of shoes on her that was one farrier down. It was impossible to get another farrier the minute you say the horse isn't good at being shod they either say no or worse book an appointment and dont turn up. So the next time I booked an un suspecting one but also had my vet there to sedate her, and it all went swimmingly with no stress to all of us, (my vet is a horse owner). However although initially booking a next appointment he cried off saying he didn't want to get hurt (ahh diddums).

I contacted the CWF for their help and they said they couldn't help but my vet could shoe if he wanted (he doesn't want bless him!). So she has had her current shoes on for 12 weeks and is desperate. I'm thinking that prehaps
barefoot is the way to go but it will have to be now?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Just thought I'd mention that a farrier is within his rights to refuse to shoe a difficult/dangerous horse. It's the owners job to present the horse as suitable for shoeing. Why should the farrier get his head kicked in? Its like going to the hairdressers and moving about while the scissors are being used, getting up and wandering off, or maybe kicking the hairdresser. What kind of haircut would you end up with then? If the hairdresser was willing to carry on that is.
 
Funny you should say that CPT, M was footy yesterday and it directly correlates with a friend forgetting to pop his muzzle on... grass!

By any chance, are you detoxing periodically? I find this really helps as soon after he is striding out on every surface. I use Trinity Consultants L94.

Also using a mix of brewers yeast, herbs for circulation & meadowsweet... mind you I go a bit overboard because of the lami factor.
 
horsemadmum1 said:
Just thought I'd mention that a farrier is within his rights to refuse to shoe a difficult/dangerous horse. It's the owners job to present the horse as suitable for shoeing. Why should the farrier get his head kicked in? Its like going to the hairdressers and moving about while the scissors are being used, getting up and wandering off, or maybe kicking the hairdresser. What kind of haircut would you end up with then? If the hairdresser was willing to carry on that is.
Click to expand...

agree with horsemadmum1, why should a farrier get hurt because your horse wont stand still? a farriers job is to shoe and trim horses, they shouldnt have to worry about potentialy being kicked!.

OP not much advice but good luck and i hope your horse comes good soon :)
 
All very well, but I had no idea until much much later on that my pony wasn't good to shoe and had to be sedated :(

After a good kick in the guts by one farrier and one good slap across the head by another, I decided Ben at the age of 18 was telling me he no longer wanted the trauma of having shoes nailed on and pulled off.

I found a brilliant EP ( lady :) ) and now, 18 months on stands like a rock and has done from the first time she picked up his feet.

I do have to use hoofboots for stoney tracks, but thats no problem ( he flinched going over stones even when shod)

He would probably be rock crunching too if he was off grass and he wasn't fed the odd half a scoop of Pasture Mix (I know I know, but he goes so fantastic when fed this before a ride! )
 
my 4 are all barefoot, i've never managed them any differently to when they were shod and yes i do get footiness on our stony track, i'd be interested to know how diet affects this and what i could and probably should be doing to improve things for them:o
and thank you for your honesty CPT, it is refreshing to hear of a barefoot advocate talking about their problems:)
 
One of my horses is barefoot, and has been for nearly 3 years. When shod he used to trip constantly, and once the shoes were pulled it never happened again! It suits him well, and so far (touch wood) he has been rock crunching, happily canters over flinty fields etc.

But its always interesting to learn more, and I was wondering what do you feed Brewers Yeast for? What does it do? And ditto to the charcoal?
 
have you tried or could you consider the paddock paradise system - i'm a great believer in it - worked well with my mare when she was barefoot and i'd much rather see a horse moving than restricted
 
This is an interesting post, I think the grass growth is very different this year with the long dry spell, now suddenly rain its like a very late lush spring. I think the muzzle will help you, I keep my retired barefoot/unshod pony muzzled when turned out at night & bring her in during the day, this works well. She was a bit footsore when the ground was very hard, but is absolutely fine now, which I think shows it was bruising, not a dietry issue as the grass is richer now?

My show jumping mare is shod in front for studs, but is barefoot/unshod behind, this works very well for us, & she interestingly has shown no changes at all with the hard ground or new grass growth. Could you bear to have front shoes on? If not then boots I think combined with the muzzle will work very well for you.

Will be interested to hear what happens.
 
I am a fan of barefoot, but also have shod horses.
In my horses, what seems to determine their ability to be barefoot or not is their level of activity in the field. I have a 50 acre field, which my horses have a free run of. Some choose to cover huge distances over the course of a day (several times across the field, canter down to say hello, canter/gallop back up, play a game), whereas some seem to stand in one corner and graze. This seems entirely unrelated to age or breed or sex ..... The ones that cover lots of ground fare very well barefoot, the ones that are more stagnant don't! I have barefoot and shod liveries as well, looked after by a variety of trimmers and farriers ...
 
horsemadmum1 said:
Just thought I'd mention that a farrier is within his rights to refuse to shoe a difficult/dangerous horse. It's the owners job to present the horse as suitable for shoeing. Why should the farrier get his head kicked in? Its like going to the hairdressers and moving about while the scissors are being used, getting up and wandering off, or maybe kicking the hairdresser. What kind of haircut would you end up with then? If the hairdresser was willing to carry on that is.
Click to expand...

I'm not happy with this analogy, this would be more fitting for plaiting, pulling or hogging.
Surely you mean chiropodist? You could easily kick one of those. The only reason to kick a hairdresser is if they were trying to steal your shoes. Hairdressers place great value on a nice pair of shoes:)
 
OP I had to think hard for this one since you'd already answered your own question and are clearly annoyed with happy posters.
I know shod horses who can't cope with flinty ground, it's not always due to their feet, sadly. Just a thought.
 
Sorry to hear he's struggling with the rocks. Mine is footy atm too but he isn't working on rough ground so is managing.

I think the grass is odd this year. BH is footy and my TB got laminitis. I know partly it was stress induced but even so. Skinny 3yo TB with lami? You don't hear that everyday.

I suppose it was stressed quite badly and then got a real soaking. Must make a difference? Any farmers in the room?
 
I'm not a farrier but if I was I'd suggest to people that they picked their horses feet up every day (maybe even twice a day) between bloody visits!!
I am H.A.P.P.Y.
 
Cassiethecob said:
The real reason I joined this forum (before I got sidetracked) was to discuss going barefoot mainly because my mare pathologically hates the farrier and indeed we have been un able to find one who isn't scared of her. I bought her at a sale with a brand new set of shoes on (learn from that folks!) so it never occured to me that she couldn't be shod. Knowing what I now know I suspect that was her first ever set (at 12yrs). Interestingly the man who brought her home for me was fascinated by her shoes and was convinced they hadn't been put on by a qualified person.

The first farrier to come out was one I had used before on the horse I had on loan because her owner insisted, seemed like a nice chap when the going was easy. Well she was having none of it, what she does is snatches her foot back and swings her back end around, she doesn't kick or rear. So of course he belted her (as they do see other threads) and although he did get a set of shoes on her that was one farrier down. It was impossible to get another farrier the minute you say the horse isn't good at being shod they either say no or worse book an appointment and dont turn up. So the next time I booked an un suspecting one but also had my vet there to sedate her, and it all went swimmingly with no stress to all of us, (my vet is a horse owner). However although initially booking a next appointment he cried off saying he didn't want to get hurt (ahh diddums).

I contacted the CWF for their help and they said they couldn't help but my vet could shoe if he wanted (he doesn't want bless him!). So she has had her current shoes on for 12 weeks and is desperate. I'm thinking that prehaps
barefoot is the way to go but it will have to be now?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...



Sorry to hijack, but you are describing my youngster here and after a year of being very calm & using drugs, he is nearly shoeable.

Initially he was being sedated to be shod and that works fine. After x3 sessions he is now ok to be trimmed unsedated and has shoes on with a tube of dermosedan. the secret is to find a farrier who is prepared to be patient and who won't get angry.
 
OP you sound very frustrated, tbh i havent seen that many people who only post about BF when it's going right.

However normally if anyone posts when there having problems with BF they get jumped on.

I have 5 horses BF 4 are great atm & 1 my elderly TB isnt, he's developed concusive Lammi again this was caught early. This is also something he has suffered for a few years now but it really has hit him hard this year.
He's also suffering WLD which i believe through my research is probably due to the Lammi.
He is now T/O daily in the manage as he has to have movement for other issue's & over the last week he's really picked up well. Boots dont help for this horse as the warm conditions the boots create make his feet worse. So arena it is for the next few months.

I just dont post in general these days as i just cant be bothered anymore as im usually ignored anyway.
 
CPT - have you tried a different supplier for your brewer's yeast? I get it from an eBay shop (I've used Natural Horse Supplies and Progressive Earth I think) with no problems. They don't do the 25kg bags though so it may work out a bit more expensive, however it's worth it if it keeps your horses sound!

Dressagecrazy - please keep posting as I want to hear how you and your PRE are getting on!! I do know what you mean about being ignored, I sometimes wonder if my posts are too balanced and uncontroversial to be read ;)
 
siennamum said:
Sorry to hijack, but you are describing my youngster here and after a year of being very calm & using drugs, he is nearly shoeable.

Initially he was being sedated to be shod and that works fine. After x3 sessions he is now ok to be trimmed unsedated and has shoes on with a tube of dermosedan. the secret is to find a farrier who is prepared to be patient and who won't get angry.
Click to expand...

Thanks to above and those who replied. Please read my post those who mentioned hairdressers, she is sedated with my vet present, basically she is more or less asleep but not so as to fall on the farrier, There is NO DANGER to the farrier. Finding the farrier is the problem, I just cant get one. To the poster who said pick her feet out, I do daily, I can tap her feet all round with a hammer, she lets me do anything with her, but I'm not a farrier. She seems to be very sensitive to smells and I wonder if this coupled with her rough handling during her previous shoeing has led to her attitude but what ever it doesn't help me or her.
 
cptrayes said:
To answer a few questions that might come up, before they do:


Because this "footiness" is caused by gut bacteria leaking into the bloodstream, and they will stay there affecting the horse even if I put shoes on and stop it showing. Boots are a better option for me if I have to protect his feet. That way I will still know what is going on in his bloodstream.


How does this work? (and I'm genuinly interested). I asked my farrier about this, he hadnt heard of this. What does brewers yeast do?
My mare is barefoot (for the last 2yrs), but has always been a bit footy over big stones.
However, since her last farrier visit, she has been better.
Click to expand...
 
My horses are shod. I used to have a mild interest in perhaps having them go barefoot (finance mainly!) but the more I hear, the more I think "No."

Mine are kept very simply - out 24/7, very plain old-fashioned feed, and the only concession to modernity is haylage because one is RAO. They have no supplements to their feed (charcoal, brewers yeast etc etc.) The farrier comes regularly every six weeks. The horses (touch wood) are never lame or 'footy' and none have ever worn a boot in their lives.

If it's the natural way, then horses should be able to cope with being barefoot without endless human intervention. I suspect, as others have said on this thread, that horses have changed so much evolution-wise that in most cases true barefootedness is not achievable?

I'm sorry to hear of cptrayes' problems, and it's wretched when you don't know quite what's amiss, but with the list of things you seem to have to do to keep a barefoot sound, I don't think I'll be converting yet.
 
Cassiethecob said:
The real reason I joined this forum (before I got sidetracked) was to discuss going barefoot mainly because my mare pathologically hates the farrier and indeed we have been un able to find one who isn't scared of her. I bought her at a sale with a brand new set of shoes on (learn from that folks!) so it never occured to me that she couldn't be shod. Knowing what I now know I suspect that was her first ever set (at 12yrs). Interestingly the man who brought her home for me was fascinated by her shoes and was convinced they hadn't been put on by a qualified person.

The first farrier to come out was one I had used before on the horse I had on loan because her owner insisted, seemed like a nice chap when the going was easy. Well she was having none of it, what she does is snatches her foot back and swings her back end around, she doesn't kick or rear. So of course he belted her (as they do see other threads) and although he did get a set of shoes on her that was one farrier down. It was impossible to get another farrier the minute you say the horse isn't good at being shod they either say no or worse book an appointment and dont turn up. So the next time I booked an un suspecting one but also had my vet there to sedate her, and it all went swimmingly with no stress to all of us, (my vet is a horse owner). However although initially booking a next appointment he cried off saying he didn't want to get hurt (ahh diddums).

I contacted the CWF for their help and they said they couldn't help but my vet could shoe if he wanted (he doesn't want bless him!). So she has had her current shoes on for 12 weeks and is desperate. I'm thinking that prehaps
barefoot is the way to go but it will have to be now?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Poor Cassie, in the same shoes for 12 WEEKS and you reckon you're long suffering. NH yard?? Are you sure:rolleyes:
 
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