Thieving Scumbag Facebook shoplifters- Rant follows

Agree with some of the suggestions above, protect your images up to the hilt, stick a big copyright over them, and make them too small on your website to be any use if copied!! That way people can see if it's a good pic, and purchase if they want, but can't pinch them as an image the size of a couple of postage stamps are no good to anyone.

Charging for viewing is a no go i think. I wouldn't bother wasting money on what could be 3 or 4 naff photos.
 
I do feel for you, you are entirely right this is just theft. 3 pounds per photo download is an extremely reasonable price!

I don't have any helpful suggestions, but would say that I am one of the people who prefer to buy on line. I am always a bit hurried at a show and prefer to take my time looking at the photos at home (I do pay for them though!).
 
I would make the images really poor quality so that you can see whether the photo is nice but it is not useful as a photo in itself. They can always screen capture so disabling right click is useless. But if the image is fuzzy, that would solve your problem.
 
I agree that copyright theft is wrong,but I have to say this does not sound entirely true.I dont know anyone who can resist buying a nice picture of their horse at a show,and the queues at the photo stalls bear this out.Personaly I doubt whether a high profile show is a good place to photograph at.
 
Agreeing with Mike here.
BSJA shows probably aren't the best money makers, alot (not all) of the people there compeate alot and aren't really interested in photos. I would imagine local shows and county showing shows would be the money makers as people like something to remember the day.
 
Speaking to friends who run a sideline photographing our hunt events this is a familiar tale. They make very little from the amount of effort they put in. There was one notable hunt member who had a veritable collection of photos that she had screen grabbed and printed out for her fridge.

I don't purchase a lot of photos, but put in a great frame they do make great presents for those awkward hunting friends. If I get snapped on the hunting field, in a show ring or at a party then I like to buy the picture and have the genuine article on my wall. I've got some lovely ones from Sarah Farnsworth and our local chaps.

Quite frankly if people are too tightfisted to put their hand in the pocket and shell out a few quid for a wonderful image then they don't deserve to have a photographer at events.
 
What makes me cross is that it will end up we'll have no photographers at events anymore, and that would be so sad as i love pics of my boys!
 
I am another that didn't realise how little money show photograpehrs make. I nearly always buy photos at an event, so glad I did last year as I lost my boy in January. My house is full of pro pics of him.

I was at an event two weeks ago, the day after I visited the photographers website and was told I needed a code to see the images. I emailed asking for the code and have had no reply over 2 weeks later!!
 
I was going to tell Spidge all about the lovely photo I recently purchased and had emailed to me by the pro photographer.... Just looked back at the email and it was actually Spidge!

Wondering whether it would be worth clearly advertising that you do provide this service. I personally would never buy a hard copy photo if I could buy the digital image to do with it as I wish.
 
I have only been doing BSJA just over a year and at first I brought loads of photos but as I haven't moved up a height and I go to the same shows its difficult as a lot of the photos are similar :)

I think all the pictures taken (mostly by Spidge) are fantastic and I am lucky to say that on a Sunday evening when I look through the pictures online there are often six or seven I want. The trouble is that this soon became too expensive to buy all the prints and I could never decide on one that I really loved it was more like several that I liked and this meant I'd end up not buying any at all! Especially as it used to be that the online prices started at a more expensive price (can't remember what this was??) there wasn't an option to pay £3 or £5 a photo as I recall...?

I would be gutted to lose Spidge at our local events as they are really nice and friendly and take excellent photos.

I was a the area show on the Friday so I am going to buy some of the prints and I hope other people do too.
 
Agree Spidge never seen the £3 option advertised?

Also have you considered trying places like oakwood park, its smaller, and probably has more people likely to buy photos :)
 
Thank you for all your responses today and the support, both directly on the forum and via email, text etc.

I shall address all those areas that have been highlighted including publicising the £3 FB download option. This is a new product and price point for us as a result of a recent posting of mine on here and all the responses I received.

I will be putting additional registration steps in place and the requirement to sign a disclaimer agreeing not to screen print/copy/shoplift/thieve the copyrighted images. I shall also be requesting removal of copyrighted shoplifted FB images by the individual or failing that by FB.

Cotswoldsj thanks for the PM, I shall respond to that when I get a moment. New gallery software required I think.

Thanks again.
 
JessPickle said:
Agree Spidge never seen the £3 option advertised?

Also have you considered trying places like oakwood park, its smaller, and probably has more people likely to buy photos :)
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JessPickle I thought you favoured the photographers from the dark side ;-)

Odd that you should mention Oakwood, that's where we started 3 years ago. Friendly event, lovely people but very often same faces week in, week out. Anyway they have a resident tog as I understand it.
 
Hope you manage to get it sorted. Separately but to do with photos, sometimes they are quite expensive and I don't buy because of the price whereas if they were say a couple of pound cheaper might do. Not aimed at Spidge but sometimes wonder if they were a bit cheaper they may sell more in volume so make more on the numbers game. Obviously have no idea how the prices and costs stack up so am prepared to be told that at £15 there is still no profit to be made.

I wonder if there was a photographer who does a lot of shows at a show centre could do some sort of loyalty card rather like when you get a discount for multiple buys.
 
My cheapest product starts at £3 online for a FB suitable download through to a canvas at £90. Hopefully somewhere in there is something for everyone.

Onsite at shows I do volume discounts such as 6 times 6x9 photos for £40 as opposed to £10 each. We have no problem with friends clubbing together to get the discounts and will even do the maths for them when they can't divide 40 by 6, to work out who owes who money in the group. See we're good like that!
 
the little money show togs make is why i will never do shows. just not worth it.

ive seen many facebook images of people i know with copyright accross thr front. if you like the picture - buy it!!!
 
The photographer that is a regular where I work has found the only way to solve this problem is to not have a website. They have a facility to view the pictures on the day and complete an order form. You can take a memory stick along and have your pics transfered straight to it at a high resolution for £15 for one image or £35 for all the pics taken of you that day (this is what I do as its quicker and means less work for the photographer!)

If you dont see your pics on the day then you can email for proofs, the photographer then has a record of who has the proofs and if they turn up elsewhere theres no excuses

He seems to find it works well
 
Spidge - is it ok for me to copy and paste your original post onto another forum that I use? Only asking as I know a.) there are two photographers on there who would whole heartedly agree and b.) a lot of the pics people post are print screens from photographers like yourself which has never sat right with me.

Just thought you'd like the message spread :)
 
Spidge - sounds like you do an excellent range and like that you are happy for friends to club together.

If I am going to purchase I do normally do it at the show. Have bought a few subsequent on line (generally when OH is with me at show, going why do you need another photograph of the horse looking exactly the same as he did last week). Do like looking on line and sometimes have actually purchased quite a time after on a couple of occasions.
 
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glitterfuzz said:
The photographer that is a regular where I work has found the only way to solve this problem is to not have a website. They have a facility to view the pictures on the day and complete an order form. You can take a memory stick along and have your pics transfered straight to it at a high resolution for £15 for one image or £35 for all the pics taken of you that day (this is what I do as its quicker and means less work for the photographer!)

If you dont see your pics on the day then you can email for proofs, the photographer then has a record of who has the proofs and if they turn up elsewhere theres no excuses

He seems to find it works well
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Love the photos he takes, bought some from the last ODE and asked permission to post them on here with a credit to him, got a lovely note from Bill in with the photos saying how nice it was to be asked if I could use them for a web site not many people bother, I just thought it was good manners to ask in the first place.........

As a complete pc numpty wouldn't know how to start downloading from a website, so I am of no use to the OP sorry!
 
teapot said:
Spidge - is it ok for me to copy and paste your original post onto another forum that I use? Only asking as I know a.) there are two photographers on there who would whole heartedly agree and b.) a lot of the pics people post are print screens from photographers like yourself which has never sat right with me.

Just thought you'd like the message spread :)
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No problem
 
I have to say i copied some of the images of Eowyn and I at our first XC but I actually bought the images (still waiting for them to come through the post btw weeks later) and onlt posted them to show what i had bought.

I post the links to ask which ones to buy is that against you rules as well???

Nikki xxxx
 
NiknKia said:
I have to say i copied some of the images of Eowyn and I at our first XC but I actually bought the images (still waiting for them to come through the post btw weeks later) and onlt posted them to show what i had bought.

I post the links to ask which ones to buy is that against you rules as well???

Nikki xxxx
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No that doesn't offend me as ultimately all that does is link to the photographers gallery. It's the shoplifters who nick all the images then you get all their mates saying lovely pictures etc etc. Meantime I have stood in a field for 12 hours to provide them with fresh chatter fodder with nought to show for it except some Facebook advertising. That offends me and is now against my rules.

Digital is immediate, I prefer to look at images online but I prefer to read a physical book rather than an online or electronic version. It's all about preference. See Nikki if you order your pix from me had I been the tog you could have had the jpeg immediately plus the print shortly thereafter when ordered online.
 
Hi Spidge,

As one of your regular customers (I almost curse when I see your van there as know I'll end up with something from you) I can completely see where your coming from. However, I do think that your gallery needs updating drastically. Agree, put photos more low res and slightly smaller. The viewing gallery on andrewgilham.co.uk is very easy to navigate and use but even still the photos are too high res to stop thieving. I also love that you'll do 2 images on one sheet (as I'm way to indecisive) and think this is a real bargain! I would be happy to pay a £5 for an unwatermarked but small high res image online, but wouldn't pay for a watermarked low res one for £3, as wouldn't have the option of printing it (and although I prob wouldn't, still would want to know I could if I wanted too!). RE area show at weekend, shame you didn't do all the rings, your images were much sharper than the other photographers.
 
natalia said:
Hi Spidge,

As one of your regular customers (I almost curse when I see your van there as know I'll end up with something from you) I can completely see where your coming from. However, I do think that your gallery needs updating drastically. Agree, put photos more low res and slightly smaller. The viewing gallery on andrewgilham.co.uk is very easy to navigate and use but even still the photos are too high res to stop thieving. I also love that you'll do 2 images on one sheet (as I'm way to indecisive) and think this is a real bargain! I would be happy to pay a £5 for an unwatermarked but small high res image online, but wouldn't pay for a watermarked low res one for £3, as wouldn't have the option of printing it (and although I prob wouldn't, still would want to know I could if I wanted too!). RE area show at weekend, shame you didn't do all the rings, your images were much sharper than the other photographers.
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Hi Natalia, I'm glad you love our photos and that you think we provide value for money. I drive my O/H nuts plus any staff as the prices, products etc change regularly. But I believe you have to innovate and provide the customer with what they want. Still testing the water with the £3 watermarked ones but most people do prefer the £5 option without the watermark.

Area Show, lovely venue, lovely weather, trying to find positive things to say here and avoid saying what I really want to say. Sitting on my fingers makes it really hard to type...
 
LOL:D:D,When I said earlier about people not being able to resist a nice picture of their horse, I was specificly thinking of Natalia who always comes back with armfulls of photos.
 
spidge said:
JessPickle I thought you favoured the photographers from the dark side ;-)

Odd that you should mention Oakwood, that's where we started 3 years ago. Friendly event, lovely people but very often same faces week in, week out. Anyway they have a resident tog as I understand it.
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I recently attended Oakwood on my youngster and won the WH class... looking on the photographers website later was gutted to find no photos of us at all, so wish you had been there!

I agree with others that perhaps these 'local' shows and Eventing are where there is money to be made. I used to Event and ALWAYS bought at least one XC pic which I could ill afford (as it was all so expensive to do in the first place!!)

If I'd have been able to pay £3 for some pics on a memory stick, I could've bought them all !!!
 
As an am-tog myself I also see my pictures posted about the place, from my own personal website that I share with people through courtesy and thinking they just want to see my pictures. It isn't destroying revenue for me, but I still challenge whenever I see my copyright breached (in fact a member of this very forum was recently kind enough to update their website with a credit to me!)

I genuinely think though that most people either (a) are ignorant of the laws (and consequences) of copyright theft and/or (b) because it is so easy to swipe pictures, it must be OK. I have challenged picture use on this and other forums and found myself defending against a barrage of "it's only professionals that can claim copyright", "you have to watermark/use a copyright symbol for it to count", "if you have been given a picture you can do what you want with it" and other nonsense.

I feel for you, I really do (in fact your story has made me think again about my little dream of getting into it myself on a professional level).

I would add though that I have seen some horrific pictures for sale from the event "pro" at prices that make you wince. I rarely buy pictures from the pro anyway as I usually take my own. Sorry if that dents your business but at least I can do what I like with the images!
 
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