fltogger
Member
unfortunately the more develope an attitude like bogpony the less photographers youll see at events. ruins it for those that do pay for photos..
simplez.
simplez.
Thieving Scumbag Facebook shoplifters- Rant follows
- Thread starter spidge
- Start date
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
after 2 event organisers trying to rip me off, let alone competitors, I am very fussy about who I take pics for-but then I only do it part time so I can afford to be. If you like PM me the link to the photographer's forum, would like to see what they are all saying
help1
Well-Known Member
I have been watching this thread and please please please can one of the photograhers come to a venue near me - our local venue affiliated dressage and SJ etc hardly ever has a photographer and I would love some pics. MY OH who is a good photograher won't come so we are pictureless!!! Happy to pay for pics just never get the opportunity to buy them!!!!
- our local venue affiliated dressage and SJ etc hardly ever has a photographer and I would love some pics. MY OH who is a good photograher won't come so we are pictureless!!! Happy to pay for pics just never get the opportunity to buy them!!!!
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George Michie
Well-Known Member
I have been watching this thread and please please please can one of the photograhers come to a venue near me
You'll have about 40 next week
spidge
Well-Known Member
I have been watching this thread and please please please can one of the photograhers come to a venue near me
Help1, my satnav won't accept "Knit your own Knickers land " as a valid postcode. Maybe I'll try Google.
bogpony
Well-Known Member
Excuse me....do not shoot me down when all i am doing is taking an interest in a thread and providing reasons for both sides of the arguement....
I have competed at 6 events this year and bought 5 photographs.......3 prints, and 2 full quality digital images, thats more than £70 spent from 6 events.
spidge
Well-Known Member
You'll have about 40 next week
1 pro official photographer, and 39 far better, amateur unofficial photographers ( most of them asking the pro for advice- "What camera do you use, how come my pictures are so blurry and fuzzy indoors, what setting do you use.....)
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
In case you hadn't noticed we are in a recession. Those of us that still have a job are very priveledged to be able to compete but I think you will find that in order to do that we have to do everything else on a shoe string. Ihave not been on holiday for over 4 years, nor can I afford to eat out, visit the cinema, buy clothes or do any of the other things most people do. On the bottom of my list is photos.
I am losing my job in 22 days time due to Council cut backs. For your info no I do not buy food or drink at shows as I consider paying £3.00 for a couple of rashers of streaky bacon slapped between two pieces of bun a rip off as I do about paying £1.00 for what is essentially a tea bag. I do not mind paying sensible prices for anything but what I resent is people charging silly prices for things. And the photographer that calculated that you would only get 20 customers from a likely 200 competitors is talking ridiculous. I have seen queues of people at our event photographers van before now, and can say most definetely that if YOU are over charging people then they will stop buying your product.
help1
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys - do hope we get one soon it does seem really random when or if a photographer is on site at some places think - perhaps it isn't worth thier while which is a shame - as was loving the idea of being able to buy the ?jpeg image. Ho hum I suspect pics would be fairly horrific anyway!!
spidge
Well-Known Member
Applecart14, I wish you well and hope that life improves. My own life has had it's ups and downs and will not doubt continue to do so, as will yours.
Shall we agree to disagree and leave it there?
Shall we agree to disagree and leave it there?
fltogger
Member
whether or not you have purchased photos im talking about the part about taking images that are felt are not "good enough" to buy. its still stealing from the photographer..
lizzie_liz
Well-Known Member
I agree with what applecart has said, photographers need to realise that many competitors can just about afford to compete, let alone buy extras when at an event. Some competitors are competing less often because of the lack of money. If you are not selling enough pictures photographers have to think WHY. Is it because they are too expensive or not what the customer wants or are there other reasons.
I know when I take pictures on my cheap digital camera I can go to Boots and have a picture printed for about 30p, now compare that to being charged £7 upwards for a picture. I think photographers definatley need to go down the jpeg image route for a small cost and then more people will buy.
I know when I take pictures on my cheap digital camera I can go to Boots and have a picture printed for about 30p, now compare that to being charged £7 upwards for a picture. I think photographers definatley need to go down the jpeg image route for a small cost and then more people will buy.
fltogger
Member
liz that is true a lot of people cant afford photos but then that doesnt excuse stealing them.
can i refer you back to the list of costs i posted a page or two back, like competing a horse it all adds up. id confidently put my own money on an image taken on a cheap compact printed at boots will be blown out of the water buy a professional version.
personally i hope that the cheap jpg option never happens, all that achieves is to damage the industy as a whole. plus a lot of photographers prefer to deal in prints as its easier to control copyright. if youre supplying a high resolution jpg for a couple of quid youre effectively giving licence to that person to have umpteen prints, massive canvases made up etc etc. it doesnt make good business sense.
hope that makes sense
Rambo
Well-Known Member
Okay....if anyone is bored and fancies helping with my ongoing experiment....do you want to try and lift the image of Ben Maher from this URL :-
http://www.krk.me.uk/Test2.html
Note: You will only be able to see Ben if you use Internet Explorer and you will need to allow pop-up's from within your browser (apologies to everyone else)...
http://www.krk.me.uk/Test2.html
Note: You will only be able to see Ben if you use Internet Explorer and you will need to allow pop-up's from within your browser (apologies to everyone else)...
flyingfeet
Well-Known Member
http://www.krk.me.uk/Test2.html
Chrome = failed
Opera = unhappy face only
firefox = unhappy face only
Chrome = failed
Opera = unhappy face only
firefox = unhappy face only
fltogger
Member
it tends to hang the whole desktop if you click out of the window with the image.
screen capture still works though..
plus exposing the html in the parent page gives you the URL for the pop-up, then exposing the html in the pop up gives you the URL to the image
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lizzie_liz
Well-Known Member
liz that is true a lot of people cant afford photos but then that doesnt excuse stealing them.
can i refer you back to the list of costs i posted a page or two back, like competing a horse it all adds up. id confidently put my own money on an image taken on a cheap compact printed at boots will be blown out of the water buy a professional version.
personally i hope that the cheap jpg option never happens, all that achieves is to damage the industy as a whole. plus a lot of photographers prefer to deal in prints as its easier to control copyright. if youre supplying a high resolution jpg for a couple of quid youre effectively giving licence to that person to have umpteen prints, massive canvases made up etc etc. it doesnt make good business sense.
hope that makes sense
I do understand your point of view but at the moment due to changing technology etc their is a flaw somewhere in some photographers business model especially if only 10% of the competitors buy a picture from that day of competition.
Kat
Well-Known Member
I think everyone understands that when money is tight you economise and that might include not buying pictures or buying less. But it doesn't excuse stealing them. If you are skint you might decide to stop buying wine but that doesn't mean you start stealing it from Tesco because it is too expensive, you just stop drinking it.
I don't doubt that you can get a photo printed very cheaply on the highstreet but that isn't the only cost, and the quality will not be comparable. You have the cost of buying the camera, petrol to the shop, parking at the shops, and your time to include too so the price is probably more like £3 depending upon hw many you have printed at a time and how much you use your camera over its whole life.
The consider that a photo taken with a digital cheap digital camera will NEVER be as good as a pro photo.
My husband has a very expensive digital camera designed for a keen amateur, he trained as a photographer and uses his camera for work. He took the decision that he couldn't afford to buy a really good DSLR and wouldn't need that quality much of the time so he settled with a bridge camera. But despite professional training and a GOOD EXPENSIVE digital camera, he cannot do the job of a pro photographer. He might get a lucky shot that will look ok at say A4 size, but he won't get consistently good shots in all light conditions everytime, and they would not be good enough to blow up any bigger. Sometimes the colours won't be right or there will be noise or blurring or whatever. Often he will miss the shot altogther due to shutter delay. Hence he is prepared to PAY photographers for the use of their images in his work (even though he could get away without doing it is a professional courtesy). With your average digital camera you would be lucky to be able to blow the image up to A5 without loosing quality, and many of the cheap ones are pretty questionable at standard size!
FWIW my husband has done a few days as an event photographer and knows exactly how hard it is to manage those huge cameras and get the shots consistently.
Noodlejaffa
Well-Known Member
All very well disabling right click, but you can still do a screen grab whether using Mac or PC.
People will steal images whatever, I'm afraid. I'm not condoning it (far from it - I run an image library with over 2 million in our collection). I don't have a real answer to the problem but do fully appreciate it (I get fed up seeing our images appearing on people's websites too!). What I've started doing with our site is offering a free image of the specific subject (I deal with architectural and archaeological material) which people are free to use as they wish. If people then wish to have additional images (the nicer ones!!) then they have to pay for them. Has worked a treat so far.
Sorry if any of this has been said before. I didn't have time to plough through 17 pages!!
Rambo
Well-Known Member
Thanks
I don't expect it to work for any of the browsers you have listed. If it were 'productionized' all these browsers would be identified and a warning thrown saying that the image would not be shown as they can't be controlled for copy'n'paste in the way that IE can. I haven't wasted too much time on the code to throw you out if you are using anything other than IE tbh as it is definitely possible to do.
I would be more interested to hear if you can crack the image using IE
oofadoofa
Well-Known Member
Sorry Rambo, too easy!
lizzie_liz
Well-Known Member
I agree that if you were to enlarge an image from a cheap camera and a top end camera used by a professional then the latter would come out on top. BUT how many people have space for these larger pictures? Our house has quite a few professional pictures taken from various horse events, infact we have no room for them, therefore if we do buy pictures we go smaller ones i.e 6x4
fltogger
Member
id still be confident that an image at that size would be better from a professional.
Santa_Claus
Well-Known Member
had to go even further round houses but using similar route and about 3 mins from start to upload
flyingfeet
Well-Known Member
I don't like IE - but I Jing'ed it
Kat
Well-Known Member
You'd still be able to tell the difference at that size.
Seriously, I can put two photos side by side one taken on my fairly decent two year old compact camera and one taken with my husband's bridge camera of the same subject in the same conditions and tell the difference, especially if it is taken in awkward conditions. Even at 6x4. If you added a pro DSLR I'm sure you could tell the difference in all circumstances.
It isn't just about blurring or pixilation it is about crispness and colour etc
It can also be about actually getting the subject at all. A Pro DSLR will have a separate wideangle and telephoto lense so that subjects very close or very far can be photographed. It will also have a fast speed so that several images can be taken over one fence without compromising quality, whereas a cheap one will not be able to refresh in time to get two at the same fence.
BUT at the end of the day if you aren't bothered about the quality and are happy with the pictures you can take yourself fair enough, but don't steal the pro ones.
lizzie_liz
Well-Known Member
I think we are never going to agree on this topic.
I also want to state I too do not agree with stealing photos from pros websites and I never have done.
There will be a difference in quality but I am not prepared to buy a photo every week or every time there is a photographer there. I will buy a picture if it is particularly good or at a special event which is not very often. Mum will often take photos, yes they may not be as good as professional ones but for the purpose they serve they are good enough for me.
Maybe an alternative is charge an extra £1 for entries and that £1 goes to the photographer, they are then guarenteed some form of income from the event.
George Michie
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about your situation.
I can relate to your post though as my wife competes at a high level in endurance and she buys photos from the official photographers. However it has to be something special and even then she buys fewer than she used to. The message clearly coming through here is for photographers is to try to be innovative and provide a high quality product at a price which is affordable but still making it viable for the photographer.
If those don't, or can't be made, to match there is obviously going to be a problem.
At the same time though riders need to play fair and not say that the photos are worthless but happily paste them onto their facebook pages.
Kat
Well-Known Member
Now that we will agree on.
Not that I am competing this year, but there is normally a photographer at our RC shows. The first couple I went to I bought photos, but I don't buy them everytime. I might if I did something new or unusual or saw a particularly nice one though.
If my dad or husband are there they can get photos that are good enough for a reminder of the day, even if they are just of the line up rather than actually over fences. I just don't need a picture of every single show I've ever been to, especially not at the same venue, and I don't tend to print them or put them on the wall anyway. But I wouldn't steal a photo from a photographers website.
I suspect that there are a lot of people like us out there, hence the 10% purchase rate cited above. I bet that is fairly accurate despite big queues as people will go for a look just in case there is a really lovely one. I expect that there will be a better conversion rate at championships or things like burghley young event horse or hoys.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes maybe that would be best. And then I will promise that when I get another job (if this is possible these days) from then on the only photos I have are the ones I have paid for