Think I might hate watching professional showjumping...

AShetlandBitMeOnce

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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Now I am referring to the showjumping purely because that's what's I am i am watching today, I am not 'picking' on them..

But watching the European Showjumping on TV today and the parts I am enjoying are far outweighed by the parts I am not..

I am bored of seeing overbent horse followed by overbent horse. I am bored of seeing them have enough leather and metal to stop a bus. I am bored of seeing mistakes corrected by yanking on said metal and leather through a tight corner. And I am bored of the commentators having a lot to say, but seemingly not the b****cks to mention, or are not allowed to mention, something's as awful as the Russian on a big grey yanking extremely hard on his horses mouth as this warmblood was unable to go from working canter to halt in less than one stride, and then proceed to see saw its head into it's chest, and ride it out continuing to do so. And it was very clear how uncomfortable in the mouth this horse was, even through the winched up flash.

I am no bunny hugger but it's just uncomfortable. Perhaps the commentators should say more and embarrass them into more appropriate behaviour.
 
I suppose at least they don't gallop unfit horses round a really tough x country course flapping around & launching them off a ridiculous stride until the horse can't make it, falls & breaks its leg.
 
merlinsquest said:
I suppose at least they don't gallop unfit horses round a really tough x country course flapping around & launching them off a ridiculous stride until the horse can't make it, falls & breaks its leg.
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No it's not at least... that shouldn't be allowed either!!

Same reason I can't watch anything "top class" these days - too much horse abuse going and EVERY SINGLE PERSON ignoring it, turning a blind eye to it and REWARDING IT.

Horse abuse is horse abuse and the people not saying it, may as well be the perpetrators.

What I have seen in social media is even more horrifying. THere was a spate of naming and shaming but even that has been excused by the "moment in time" get out clause.

Look at Edward Gal... his horse looked like it had a broken neck and he was literally holding it up with a pulley system.
 
The cruelty in Equine 'sport' is unbelievable but as long as people make money out of it - it will carry on. Don't watch it and don't support it.
 
I think thr horse breaking its leg at the europeans doesnt really fit into that model. Looked really unfortunate.

Tallyho.... I saw that video and pictures of Edward Gal... not a moment in time and if so it was ruddy long moment! I commented on the lambasting Mathias got when he got Toto... not the same 'partnership' that Edward had, etc etc and I feel sorry for him... maybe he actually tried to ride the horse properly but it was too far gone? And now all the injuries it has had... probably long term damage...

I do think at the top level you can see the very best... just watched Tina Cooks cross country round... blimey she can get a horse fit, and she was enviable in her position and technique.
You will also see some amzing riding and horsemanship at the top level, as well as some of the worst who let the pressure, prestige and money come before horse welfare.
 
tallyho! said:
Look at Edward Gal... his horse looked like it had a broken neck and he was literally holding it up with a pulley system.
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Edward Gal is a total mystery to me. he can sit on a horse in a stunningly effortless way so (to me) is doubtless without a tremendous amount of skill and ability... he's able to tease out performances from the most challenging horses.... I just can't therefore understand the reasoning for that way of training :( Unfathomable.

Once upon a time I would shake my head to myself and say maybe that's why I'm a puny amateur and he's at the top of the sport... but these days the more sympathetic way of training is clearly traction and results, so... :rolleyes:
 
I cannot watch any of that stuff. I am pretty new to the world of horses in comparison to most of you on here, but i do try to educate myself, and there is a lot of interesting stuff out there, lots of but evidence based articles, and pieces based on equine anatomy and physiology. All saying what we should and shouldn't be doing to our horses, and the effects on the horse of what we as rider do actualy do. I try to take it all onboard, then turn on the telly and I see uncomfortable overbent horses, yanking on the mouths, mouths clasped shut, whites of eyes, ears pinned. And not a blinking thing is ever mentioned, nobody is penalises. Obviously not all of it, but enough to make me turn off completely.
 
With the top class xc and showjumping ( and I didn't see any of the european SJ but I did see the eventing) do you think part of the problem is the course designers setting horrible courses? Too many difficult lines with related distances the horses can't manage without shortening and lengthening in an almost impossible way? Too many skinnys and fences horses can't read in the xc, riders being told 'get round for the sake of the team' ..... do you think nicer courses that are sympathetic to the horse would make for more 'teamwork' between horse and rider and less rider dominance that seems to be at the forefront today?
 
I watched a video of pony jumping the other day and was quite angry at how one girl rode. Pony refused a jump so she smacked it about 5 times for that with the whip. Brought it round again, it refused again, elimination, another 4 smacks with the whip. Dunno if anything was done but if I had been her parent she'd have been dragged off the pony and it sold to a home where it wouldn't be hit like that.

Not the top league but still not good.
 
rachk89 said:
I watched a video of pony jumping the other day and was quite angry at how one girl rode. Pony refused a jump so she smacked it about 5 times for that with the whip. Brought it round again, it refused again, elimination, another 4 smacks with the whip. Dunno if anything was done but if I had been her parent she'd have been dragged off the pony and it sold to a home where it wouldn't be hit like that.

Not the top league but still not good.
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But this attitude starts from the very beginning doesn't it, I bet the more nasty "professionals" were brought up exactly the same, being allowed by the parents to blame their horses and basically beat them up to do as they ask. I hate it too. My 5yo rides, I am extremely quick to tell him if he so much as accidentally pulls too hard on the ponies mouth that he's not to do that and explain why. He also once blamed the pony for knocking a pole in a little SJ round, he got told not to blame the pony and look at his riding (yes ok he doesnt "ride" yet, more just sits there as I lead him about but it gives him the idea!). I would be absolutely horrified if he ever grows up and starts laying into his pony. He likely wont ever be given a whip full stop, I dont ride or compete (BE, BS etc.) with one anymore. IMO, the FEI are to blame hugely for not doing enough. But also BS, BE, BD really should be quicker and stricter to disipline people with use of the whip etc.

I respect some pro's, but I do hate the way certain sports have gone. In showjumping, why is is clearly such a dominance thing. The amount of tack and gadgets they wear is just sickening. I like that guy who show jumps with minimal tack and pretty naturally, cant remember his name... In eventing, I think money is a big factor which ruins some people into pushing their horses beyond their capabilities. Dressage, well its been going in a nasty direction for a while now. Nothing needs to be said about endurance - they had a Dubai endurance race on big TV screens in the cheesecake factory when I was there in Dubai, it made for horrific viewing yet nobody even gave it a second glance. If these people behave like this in public and even with TV cameras on them, it would be shocking to think what they do at home :(
 
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rachk89 said:
I watched a video of pony jumping the other day and was quite angry at how one girl rode. Pony refused a jump so she smacked it about 5 times for that with the whip. Brought it round again, it refused again, elimination, another 4 smacks with the whip. Dunno if anything was done but if I had been her parent she'd have been dragged off the pony and it sold to a home where it wouldn't be hit like that.

Not the top league but still not good.
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IME Juniors are usually more monitored for behaviour... I have as steward measured spur length before.

Re. the dressage (well and sjers on the flat) having watched the recent footage/follow epona etc I think that riders have ended up in a place where a horse giving that 'feel' feels normal. To them. I wonder if it has in part come out of horses now being generally hot, certainly including Gals' horses and this a seemingly effective way to keep them more rideable.
 
ester said:
. I wonder if it has in part come out of horses now being generally hot, certainly including Gals' horses and this a seemingly effective way to keep them more rideable.
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But are horses now more 'hot'? At one time more people rode TBs, especially for eventing. I think unsympathetic riding produces annoyed horses which show their displeasure by getting buzzy, swishing tails etc. Calm cool riding produces a calm cool horse...
 
well i watched quite a bit of the dressage today and saw some lovely horses being ridden sympathetically.....isabel werth did a fab test on her black mare, it was lovely to watch and many of the others rode in a similar way and especially carl....even patrick kittel rode without having his horses chin on its chest and he was rewarded with a good mart....however edward gal is still riding in the same forced way and his horse made quite a few mistakes and looked very tense all the way through the test. he has not qualified for the kur im pleased to say ...i do think dressage riding has improved recently partly due to carl and charlottes success....
 
splashgirl45 said:
well i watched quite a bit of the dressage today and saw some lovely horses being ridden sympathetically.....isabel werth did a fab test on her black mare, it was lovely to watch and many of the others rode in a similar way and especially carl....even patrick kittel rode without having his horses chin on its chest and he was rewarded with a good mart....however edward gal is still riding in the same forced way and his horse made quite a few mistakes and looked very tense all the way through the test. he has not qualified for the kur im pleased to say ...i do think dressage riding has improved recently partly due to carl and charlottes success....
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what some people do in the ring isnt always what they do in practice!! Werth Kittel and Gal all practise rollkur in training and have been filmed doing so.
 
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There's a huge variety in SJing as in any equestrian sport. In my opinion Scott Brash is an incredible and skilful rider.

I think the problem with equestrian sports, particularly those like SJing, is money really can get you a long way even if you've got limited skill. So you see people riding at a level and on horses that they really aren't skilled enough to be riding, so they compensate with gadgets and rough riding.

Abuse like rolkur and inappropriate tack isn't being ignored though, I think there's increasing awareness and outcry within dressage. Hopefully SJing will follow suit!
 
I will admit to not having watched the dressage nor the eventing so cannot comment (I have refused to watch top dressage for a long time now, but will 'catch up' on charlottes tests on youtube following the event). However I would be interested in seeing Edward Gal's test, purely to see how much abuse they are willing to let go these days.. I also didn't realise that a horse had broken it's leg.. rider error it sounds?
Reminds me of the round at Badminton (??), lady rider pushed the horse too far and horse dragged both legs and they both fell at the last. There was a little outcry at that, but nothing like it should have been imo. Can't remember her name for the life of me.

The only rider that sticks out in my mind from the whole showjumping day was one lady on a little bay mare, in a snaffle, in a loose looking flash, mare jumped smoothly and beautifully; no chomping, head throwing, tail swishing, no arguments - says it all I think.

I did notice that the commentators were referring to a 'heavy bridle' which I think is essentially hinting towards too much tack, but that just isn't nearly enough.
 
stormox said:
But are horses now more 'hot'? At one time more people rode TBs, especially for eventing. I think unsympathetic riding produces annoyed horses which show their displeasure by getting buzzy, swishing tails etc. Calm cool riding produces a calm cool horse...
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maybe that should have read 'considered hot' or 'treated as hot'? I was specifically talking dressage.. and probably linked to the fact that riding a horse that looks like it is about to bubble over and you are doing oh such a great job of containing that 'power' seems to score you well.
 
Also I'm not sure the bob the builder incident was rider error, not the best angle to tell from but the horse didn't pick up when asked/put down again rapidly. It certainly wasn't a case of any sort of reckless riding anyway, and you wouldn't have had your heart in your mouth watching it.

I do hope that MIM are going to be assessing closely at the footage to ensure that the movement of the fence under him after his legs sort of wrapped round it did not contribute to the break though.
 
I know I'll get stick from the purists but it does bother me that bitless bridles are banned from dressage even at prelim and yet some of these bits and nosebands can be used as torture devices without any repercussion. I find some of it harder and harder to watch.

I'm not sure of the relevance of the broken leg evening, I was at Burghley when the South African horses pastern snapped as it galloped up the hill towards me, sometimes bad things happen without it being someone's fault.
 
stormox said:
what some people do in the ring isnt always what they do in practice!! Werth Kittel and Gal all practise rollkur in training and have been filmed doing so.
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im not silly, i know that they both have used alot of force but edward gal is still riding in tests forcefully and patrick kittel's test was surprisingly pleasant to watch after the way he used to ride his other horse....both patricks horse and isabels looked comfortable in their tests while edwards didnt..... i also hate forceful riding/training/rolkur but do enjoy watching horse sports and hope that things are improving...
 
ester said:
Also I'm not sure the bob the builder incident was rider error, not the best angle to tell from but the horse didn't pick up when asked/put down again rapidly. It certainly wasn't a case of any sort of reckless riding anyway, and you wouldn't have had your heart in your mouth watching it.

I do hope that MIM are going to be assessing closely at the footage to ensure that the movement of the fence under him after his legs sort of wrapped round it did not contribute to the break though.
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I was going to comment this but already have. I think the poor Polish rider was riding well, the horse looked fit and enthuastic. I think it was the jumps fault... it basically got its front leg caught in the fence? To blame the rider in this case is harsh and unfair.
 
dominobrown said:
I was going to comment this but already have. I think the poor Polish rider was riding well, the horse looked fit and enthuastic. I think it was the jumps fault... it basically got its front leg caught in the fence? To blame the rider in this case is harsh and unfair.
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I saw it this way as well. I think the horse would have glanced off it had the MIM clips not been in use. The way it looked was that the jump fell on his leg. But I'm sure they will be looking at all perspectives to figure out what happened :(
 
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