This happened 😫

[poiuytrewq]

My little yard is being concreted so horse and ponies are living out. First time ever, they always come in either day or night.
I went out after work with a pile of hay, divided into piles and started poo picking.
I stopped, looking at them thinking how well they got on now, sharing a pile.
Literally as I watched my horse hit the floor like a ton of bricks. Right onto his side.
He was up again almost instantly,shook himself off and carried on eating.

There was no staggering, nothing obvious to spook him, although he did give the hay like a wtf look before resuming eating.

He usually comes in during the day and lies down a lot. I don’t see him lie in the field.
I don’t watch them in the field usually. I poo pick when they are in so the dogs can come and I can’t see them from home so I don’t actually know if this has ever happened before.
He’s due jabs and I’m going to ask for his gear to be checked. He is jumpy in general, but I didn’t see anything to make him jump and explain it. The ponies didn’t react.
He was fine very shortly after but had grass marks on his landing side legs and dust marks over his entire near side. So he hit and rolled to spine area.
I honestly thought he’d had a heart attack in that split second.
I mean, this is so totally me. After my thread about how great he was etc
Wtf

 

[meleeka]

He could have just lost his balance while having a mini spook at something. I think a vet check is sensible though. Are you able to put a camera in his stable when he goes back in?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yes I probably could. There are cameras around the farm so that’s a possibility

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Maybe he is just exhausted from not going into his usual snoozey place for a while.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

Could it have been the heat, like a faint. Sorry you’re having such a rough time.

 

[Red-1]

I think it could be that he was tired too. If Rigsby doesn't have lie-down time in bed, he drops when you are sitting on him. I looked into it, it is a known thing.

I initially *thought* it was because he was hot and sweaty and he was in a clinic in a hot and comfy indoor arena, but it only ever happened 3 times, each time when I'd not brought him in for snoozy time and he was then worked followed by standing in a warm space. Think me in a warm office after lunch...

I would possibly get the vet to check yours out, but Rigs now always has access to his soft bed and it has never happed again. We made him a patio outside his stable so he can have free access It only happened the first year I had him, before he had sorted his sleeping arrangements out with us. He does rule the roost

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’d hoped that as he literally has breakfast and sleeps. Lying down then just lip hanging at the back of his stable
It was quite dramatic though. He didn’t seem sleepy when he was eating and I wandered off to poo pick

 

[holeymoley]

Mine done this when he had laminitis. He was up then in seconds he was down. I thought he was having a heart attack, I daren’t even look over the door but in the split second that I did he was scrabbling to get up, shook himself, done a pee and pretended nothing had happened. He cut his lip during the fall. I had the vet come out straight away incase he was having a seizure of some sort. But we couldn’t find anything other than a slight heart murmur. Which we never done anything about as it wasn’t evident once the laminitis was resolved. To this day I don’t know what happened. I was carrying a piece of paper so perhaps he spooked and couldn’t move quick enough due to his painful hooves. Perhaps he had a bit of sleep deprivation given he had sore hooves too. I don’t know. He’s never done it again thankfully. It gives you quite a scare though.

 

[scats]

Sleep deprivation?
Last year and the year before, when I swapped the girls to overnight turnout in spring, Polly went headfirst into the wall. First year she moved a double-Brick wall and gave herself a bad head and jaw injury, last year she hit the wall by the water buckets and got away with superficial cuts and grazes.
I have to be so careful when I swap them round now but thankfully it’s not happened this year (or at least hasn’t in the stable where she could be injured more easily)

 

[w1bbler]

Narcolepsy?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Narcolepsy?

Having googled and watched quite a few clips I don’t think this is what happened.
They all look like they are falling asleep. Head down, eyes shut etc.
Mine was as sudden as clicking fingers.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Sleep deprivation?
Last year and the year before, when I swapped the girls to overnight turnout in spring, Polly went headfirst into the wall. First year she moved a double-Brick wall and gave herself a bad head and jaw injury, last year she hit the wall by the water buckets and got away with superficial cuts and grazes.
I have to be so careful when I swap them round now but thankfully it’s not happened this year (or at least hasn’t in the stable where she could be injured more easily)

That’s really interesting. Poor girl.
So maybe it was the sudden change
Did she look normal either side of it happening?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Mine done this when he had laminitis. He was up then in seconds he was down. I thought he was having a heart attack, I daren’t even look over the door but in the split second that I did he was scrabbling to get up, shook himself, done a pee and pretended nothing had happened. He cut his lip during the fall. I had the vet come out straight away incase he was having a seizure of some sort. But we couldn’t find anything other than a slight heart murmur. Which we never done anything about as it wasn’t evident once the laminitis was resolved. To this day I don’t know what happened. I was carrying a piece of paper so perhaps he spooked and couldn’t move quick enough due to his painful hooves. Perhaps he had a bit of sleep deprivation given he had sore hooves too. I don’t know. He’s never done it again thankfully. It gives you quite a scare though.

So scary. Good to hear yours has been ok since.
I did, thinking about it have a pony collapse a few years back when I put cold cream on a hot pink nose, shock I guess. So yeah maybe your right bit of a head spook and not a fast enough leg response.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

similar to my bioy last year, but it was a mini seizure.

turned out to be tape worm

 

[scats]

That’s really interesting. Poor girl.
So maybe it was the sudden change
Did she look normal either side of it happening?

The vet thinks that if she didn’t get her REM quota (ie lying down sleep) coz she was too busy munching in field, she’s possibly slipped into it while standing up. Seemed to be totally normal beforehand, the first time my friend had gone into the barn and Polly had been standing dozing prior to it happening. She’d literally just left the barn when she heard the crash, and ran back in to find a very concussed and confused animal. She hit that wall with such force that she moved the bricks by a few inches. The second time no-one saw what happened but Polly had injured exactly the same place above her eye as the previous year, so we are pretty confident that the same happened. Both times occurred within 48 hours of swapping to night turnout and bringing in for a few hours during the day.

 

[Orangehorse]

Get the vet to check his heart, sorry to say.

 

[scruffyponies]

I had one who occasionally blacked out, but it happened mostly when he was being girthed or mounted, and once just trotting along out hunting, so we assume some kind of weird stress response since we never did find out what it was.

 

[Goldenstar]

This sounds just like sleep deprivation which is much much more common than you might think.
His heart should be checked and you should consider if he had a seizure .
However given that the horses are used to coming in to sleep ( mine do this ) I would take a guess that it’s lack of his usual place to lie .

 

[southerncomfort]

Just to reassure you re seizures, my old girl seemed to know when one was coming. She'd take herself off somewhere quiet, slowly collapse down and roll on to her side.

Was he definitely still eating? I've heard of horses dropping because they've dozed off but their knees hadn't locked out properly.

 

[Peglo]

My cousins pony did this twice one year. It was probably 10ish years ago and think it was after his feed. He was walking along and suddenly fell to the ground landing on his side and got straight back up again and seemed totally fine if not a bit surprised. It was quite shocking but he’s never done it again and has been fine since.
He was out 24/7 at the time and his normal routine.

 

[SEL]

The only time I've heard of this it seemed to be related to the horse's cushings - change in dosage and it never happened again.

I feel for you - I'd be worrying myself senseless

 

[PurBee]

Figure 18.1 Diagnoses in 44 horses presented for cardiological investigation with a history of collapse. 18% were undiagnosed. Neurological conditions were most common in horses that collapsed at rest. Cardiological conditions were most common in horses that collapsed during exercise. Metabolic conditions, such as heat exhaustion, were most common in horses that collapsed after exercise.

Collapse and syncope

Chapter 18 Collapse and syncope Richard J. Piercy, Celia M. Marr CHAPTER CONTENTS Definitions Introduction Cardiovascular and circulatory causes of collapse Clinical investigation of the collapsing…

veteriankey.com

The above stats on 44 horses for collapse show the majority who collapsed at rest were due to neurological causes, with a good number undiagnosed.
Interestingly sleep deprivation wasnt investigated, which may account for some of them.


My mare almost collapsed sideways onto me while she was super-relaxed in the barn, i was grooming her, she was drop-lip snoozing and momentarily her lock-knee gave way, which immediately woke her up and she corrected her stance and locked her knee again. All happened in milli-seconds. Happened 3 times that session - very momentary split-second failure of the lock-knee snoozing. I think she just became so relaxed she slipped into deeper sleep brainwaves momentarily.
For her, she has 24/7 access to the barn for REM flat-out sleep deep bed whenever she likes, no routine change.

Another aspect i considered is that her being lead-mare, she is ultimately the one most responsible, so whenever im spending time in field with them or barn, she as lead-mare can fully relax as im there. Im her ‘person’ who she calls to for issues, so if im there, she doesnt have that ‘herd concern/responsibility’ and can fully truly relax.
The environment mine are in is very quiet and relaxing, few distractions, so theyre relaxed moreso than say, a busy yard full of comings and goings, so when they fully relax they easily enter deep sleep waves.

Maybe some horses bodies get so used to routine to-the-hour sleep patterns, that if that ever suddenly changes, their bodies doze and they are in danger of collapse?
With your boy, its interesting that he was eating with his mate and relaxed, when normally he’d be in for relaxing snooze-time. His brain could have been so relaxed, the body entered deeper snooze waves momentarily, because its so accustomed to deep sleep at that hour every day?

As your vet is due, its worth they do a check-over of him, it may signify deeper issues that youve had the chance to catch early signs of.
The fact he got up relatively quickly is likely a good sign, as i’d expect a neuro-seizure or heart issue, to have kept them down longer, and getting-up to be more laboured. You describe him being momentarily dazed after getting up which could indicate change in brain waves to sleep waves.
It’s good you witnessed it as you can describe in detail how he fell, how long, how he recovered to your vet.

 

[poiuytrewq]

similar to my bioy last year, but it was a mini seizure.

turned out to be tape worm

What! Really? Why/how?
I did equisal tests recently on all 4 of my horses and his came back as a moderate count, others were low. So I have bought a wormer but it’s in his stable ready to give when he came in so still has a higher amount of tapes in him than ideal. Why would that cause it?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Figure 18.1 Diagnoses in 44 horses presented for cardiological investigation with a history of collapse. 18% were undiagnosed. Neurological conditions were most common in horses that collapsed at rest. Cardiological conditions were most common in horses that collapsed during exercise. Metabolic conditions, such as heat exhaustion, were most common in horses that collapsed after exercise.

Collapse and syncope

Chapter 18 Collapse and syncope Richard J. Piercy, Celia M. Marr CHAPTER CONTENTS Definitions Introduction Cardiovascular and circulatory causes of collapse Clinical investigation of the collapsing…

veteriankey.com

The above stats on 44 horses for collapse show the majority who collapsed at rest were due to neurological causes, with a good number undiagnosed.
Interestingly sleep deprivation wasnt investigated, which may account for some of them.


My mare almost collapsed sideways onto me while she was super-relaxed in the barn, i was grooming her, she was drop-lip snoozing and momentarily her lock-knee gave way, which immediately woke her up and she corrected her stance and locked her knee again. All happened in milli-seconds. Happened 3 times that session - very momentary split-second failure of the lock-knee snoozing. I think she just became so relaxed she slipped into deeper sleep brainwaves momentarily.
For her, she has 24/7 access to the barn for REM flat-out sleep deep bed whenever she likes, no routine change.

Another aspect i considered is that her being lead-mare, she is ultimately the one most responsible, so whenever im spending time in field with them or barn, she as lead-mare can fully relax as im there. Im her ‘person’ who she calls to for issues, so if im there, she doesnt have that ‘herd concern/responsibility’ and can fully truly relax.
The environment mine are in is very quiet and relaxing, few distractions, so theyre relaxed moreso than say, a busy yard full of comings and goings, so when they fully relax they easily enter deep sleep waves.

Maybe some horses bodies get so used to routine to-the-hour sleep patterns, that if that ever suddenly changes, their bodies doze and they are in danger of collapse?
With your boy, its interesting that he was eating with his mate and relaxed, when normally he’d be in for relaxing snooze-time. His brain could have been so relaxed, the body entered deeper snooze waves momentarily, because its so accustomed to deep sleep at that hour every day?

As your vet is due, its worth they do a check-over of him, it may signify deeper issues that youve had the chance to catch early signs of.
The fact he got up relatively quickly is likely a good sign, as i’d expect a neuro-seizure or heart issue, to have kept them down longer, and getting-up to be more laboured. You describe him being momentarily dazed after getting up which could indicate change in brain waves to sleep waves.
It’s good you witnessed it as you can describe in detail how he fell, how long, how he recovered to your vet.

Interesting. He wouldn’t normally have been asleep at that time of day but he would have had several hours on and off in the stable through out that day. That was day 3 of suddenly not having that.
He was chilled, I’ve been loving how happy and chilled they have seemed out 24/7 until that. Now I can’t wait to get them back in!
Yes the getting up was pretty instant and the slightly dazed aspect lasted very little time aswell.
The other ponies reactions, ie nothing also worried me slightly, are they used to that happening

 

[SEL]

What! Really? Why/how?
I did equisal tests recently on all 4 of my horses and his came back as a moderate count, others were low. So I have bought a wormer but it’s in his stable ready to give when he came in so still has a higher amount of tapes in him than ideal. Why would that cause it?

Tapeworm can migrate causing neuro issues. I'd have thought it would come with a high Equisal score though but not something I know much about

 

[PurBee]

Interesting. He wouldn’t normally have been asleep at that time of day but he would have had several hours on and off in the stable through out that day. That was day 3 of suddenly not having that.
He was chilled, I’ve been loving how happy and chilled they have seemed out 24/7 until that. Now I can’t wait to get them back in!
Yes the getting up was pretty instant and the slightly dazed aspect lasted very little time aswell.
The other ponies reactions, ie nothing also worried me slightly, are they used to that happening

If he’s used to having REM sleep daily, and youve never seen him lay down in the field (mine dont either, to sleep, as they use their barn bed), then 3rd day without REM may possible cause involuntary REM collapse? A bit like narcolepsy.

IF it was neuro, wouldnt there be some other subtle everyday neuro symptoms accompanying? It’s weird for any neuro disease to present as fine all the time, except for random sudden collapses.

Keep a hawk eye on him for other symptoms is all you can do, that may help your vet narrow it down. The tape test is intriguing and worth considering.

It’s amazing with horses, 1 can be doing something completely weird and you’ll have some herd mates react and others just glance and carry-on as if nothing is happening! Whereas my mare marches up here to yell at me to tell me the other one has escaped, she’s such a good leader!

 

[poiuytrewq]

If he’s used to having REM sleep daily, and youve never seen him lay down in the field (mine dont either, to sleep, as they use their barn bed), then 3rd day without REM may possible cause involuntary REM collapse? A bit like narcolepsy.

IF it was neuro, wouldnt there be some other subtle everyday neuro symptoms accompanying? It’s weird for any neuro disease to present as fine all the time, except for random sudden collapses.

Keep a hawk eye on him for other symptoms is all you can do, that may help your vet narrow it down. The tape test is intriguing and worth considering.

It’s amazing with horses, 1 can be doing something completely weird and you’ll have some herd mates react and others just glance and carry-on as if nothing is happening! Whereas my mare marches up here to yell at me to tell me the other one has escaped, she’s such a good leader!
[/QUOTE/]

Yes surely. I’ve been wracking my brain and apart from one day this week he lost a back leg hacking, this was when we pulled off the road to let a car past onto a rough nasty verge with long grass so I thought at the time understandable.
I have a possible neuro horse and it’s very very different.

So normally I ride fairly early weekdays, 10am. He comes in at 6.30 and he will eat and sleep til then, so I’ve pushed the rude back til lunch time so he has time to get a good sleep the text to my riding partner “can we go a few hours later so Zig can sleep a full morning”
I really hope this is it.
I will run the worm thing past my vet because it’s odd that it happened after a not perfect result.

 

[poiuytrewq]

That went weird! My reply is straight after Pr bees post that I quoted!

 

[PurBee]

Zig sounds a lot like me, without my full sleep quota, im prone to suddenly collapse Fingers crossed it is change in routine and lack of ZZz’s affecting him, and hopefully your vet can assess and help clarify.

 

[Lois Lame]

Having googled and watched quite a few clips I don’t think this is what happened.
They all look like they are falling asleep. Head down, eyes shut etc.
Mine was as sudden as clicking fingers.

It's interesting.

I would have assumed they would have a snooze, drifting off into sleep, followed by deep snoring and looking somewhat dead - like normal horses at grass.

I'm starting to agree with the others, that they are all sleepy. Their routine is a little mucked up because they are not in their stables.

Is it because, at grass, they need a guard on duty?

I've always seen horses taking it in turns to have a morning sleep when living 24/7 at grass.