This horse has my number!

Sorry it's not better news.

I'd really think about how much you want to do going forward. There's a lot going on with this horse who you've only had for 4 months. I feel the previous owners have really misled you on what he's going to be capable of.
I'd think it highly unlikely that you'll keep him pain/ulcer free with just a few weeks box rest if you go back to the work he's been doing.
If you do go for the surgery, I'd make 100% sure there's nothing else going on.
 
Oh gosh I’m guessing that will be exempt from insurance as an existing injury. This sounds harsh but think very carefully before making any decision , i don’t think the odds are great for returning to work to the level you want. I brought my first horse (as an adult anyhow) who had a lot of issues, I spent thousands and got into a lot of debt for him to continue to be a very unhappy horse and was PTS. Hindsight’s a beautiful thing but given his condition I should have used my head and PTS at time of diagnosis.
 
I really feel for you and agree it looks like the previous owner took advantage of your good nature. In your shoes I’d have a frank and open conversation with the vet as to long term prognosis and ability to continue with ridden work long term. At present it sadly feels like you could potentially be throwing good money after bad.
 
I doubt the surgery for psd will be covered by insurance if his injured it before and had treatment for it previously.

When Arabi injured his he was 12 he had prp and 6 months box rest and he was sound and it was healed, I was given the option of surgery if it didn't work but I wouldn't have done it.
 
If he has chronic suspensory issues he will relapse IME. I would not be investing time and money and emotion. Retire or PTS would be my options. He likely would not stay sound for long. So sorry you are in this horrible position. The previous owner should have done the right thing by the horse.
 
Appreciate the responses and honesty.
It's a hard decision for sure.

I have got an initial quote for surgery which I have discussed with my husband and we felt was very reasonable so that's fine in that respect but pf course thats not the end of it (ongoing checks rehab etc etc) and no insurance as they wouldn't have covered him anyway due to age and history.

So the decision to operate or not is more about the long term prognosis, rehabbing, time (which I have ) but do we want to, feel it's worth it/appropriate etc etc I will discuss with the surgeon.
IMO I think taking the conservative route: rest shockwave, rehab route will only "work" for a period of time until it comes up again like someone previously said.

And then we are back to square one and for what 💁‍♀️
My husband bless him is on the do the surgery and at least you tried fence but still unsure. It seems wild to me to PTS an otherwise beautiful animal and we will not offload him unless I can control his retirement somewhere and ensure he will be cared for.
 
SavvyTaylorMinogue said:
Appreciate the responses and honesty.
It's a hard decision for sure.

I have got an initial quote for surgery which I have discussed with my husband and we felt was very reasonable so that's fine in that respect but pf course thats not the end of it (ongoing checks rehab etc etc) and no insurance as they wouldn't have covered him anyway due to age and history.

So the decision to operate or not is more about the long term prognosis, rehabbing, time (which I have ) but do we want to, feel it's worth it/appropriate etc etc I will discuss with the surgeon.
IMO I think taking the conservative route: rest shockwave, rehab route will only "work" for a period of time until it comes up again like someone previously said.

And then we are back to square one and for what 💁‍♀️
My husband bless him is on the do the surgery and at least you tried fence but still unsure. It seems wild to me to PTS an otherwise beautiful animal and we will not offload him unless I can control his retirement somewhere and ensure he will be cared for.
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That’s what I thought too , so kept as a pet , he was “field sound” however he must have been in pain as was a very angry pet. Would attack the others really badly, so ended up alone , which he hated, was always on high alert , charged anyone who entered the field bar me. This happened over space of a year , so I think must have been pain. However if your boy is happy chilling out and munching and isn’t in pain then I’m sure he’ll love you for it.
 
SavvyTaylorMinogue said:
Appreciate the responses and honesty.
It's a hard decision for sure.

I have got an initial quote for surgery which I have discussed with my husband and we felt was very reasonable so that's fine in that respect but pf course thats not the end of it (ongoing checks rehab etc etc) and no insurance as they wouldn't have covered him anyway due to age and history.

So the decision to operate or not is more about the long term prognosis, rehabbing, time (which I have ) but do we want to, feel it's worth it/appropriate etc etc I will discuss with the surgeon.
IMO I think taking the conservative route: rest shockwave, rehab route will only "work" for a period of time until it comes up again like someone previously said.

And then we are back to square one and for what 💁‍♀️
My husband bless him is on the do the surgery and at least you tried fence but still unsure. It seems wild to me to PTS an otherwise beautiful animal and we will not offload him unless I can control his retirement somewhere and ensure he will be cared for.
Click to expand...
What surgery have they recommended?
 
He will definately make a very happy paddock ornament even right now he is happy (now his ulcers have been treated) with no visible pain and lameness is only mildly visible at trot.

Since my last update I have spoke to the surgeon.
He has suggested a bi lateral fasciotomy and neurectomy as although we've only picked up the RH he said it's almost ALWAYS bi lateral given he was an eventing sport horse and prior to doing the bi lateral he would scan to be sure.

He was actually very positive and open to many treatment options but given his history and his conformation gave me about 80% prognosis of return to same level or better best case scenario with the surgery but not to ignore that the odd 20% do happen so I have to be prepared for that.
4 weeks box rest, shockwave & 12 weeks rehab.
So now we just mull on it.
 
Gosh I'm sorry for you for this whole situation, but I just popped on to say well done for doing and thinking all the right things here. If this guy doesn't work out, another horse will be very lucky to have you as an owner.

There is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer to this
I'd almost consider a husband if I thought I'd get one as supportive as yours, I've basically given up on that idea lol
 
SavvyTaylorMinogue said:
He will definately make a very happy paddock ornament even right now he is happy (now his ulcers have been treated) with no visible pain and lameness is only mildly visible at trot.

Since my last update I have spoke to the surgeon.
He has suggested a bi lateral fasciotomy and neurectomy as although we've only picked up the RH he said it's almost ALWAYS bi lateral given he was an eventing sport horse and prior to doing the bi lateral he would scan to be sure.

He was actually very positive and open to many treatment options but given his history and his conformation gave me about 80% prognosis of return to same level or better best case scenario with the surgery but not to ignore that the odd 20% do happen so I have to be prepared for that.
4 weeks box rest, shockwave & 12 weeks rehab.
So now we just mull on it.
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Perhaps for another thread but I find these percentages vets give out misleading. How long does he review the horses after surgery?
I was given those exact odds and I am glad I did the surgery. My mare will now go down in the success figures *but* I haven't seen that vet for 2 years ( it's 3 years since the op) and my mare is retired. I didn't expect her to go back to the work she was doing pre-op so I never asked her to, my aim was for her to be field happy but she's in that 80%. The (wonderful) vet has no idea what she's doing now.

Obviously you want the horse to do less than he did when he was initially injured *but* unless you want to be back to square one I'd be very careful with any school work.
 
Just to be sure is the vet happy with everything else? SI problems and even forelimb lameness often show after treating suspensory problems. As they start using themselves differently so other issues arise. So the surgery is successful but the horse has other problems.
I am so sorry to be so negative but have been there and seen others go down this route with very li.ited results. I wish you well in whatever you decide xx
 
Ooh those are very good points!
I will make sure to discuss it with my vet regarding the front and si issues.
The surgeon and my vet are two different people.
The surgeon did actually mention SI issues and other lameness and his plan to manage that was all in his rehab and ongoing exercises and treatments like injections if needed to manage those.
More things to consider and useful comments
 
Update: for those following I have appreciated the sounding board and comments.

I have spoken to 2 surgeons and several highly experienced horse people who run my facility and have a few cases of their own horses having suspensory injuries over the years.
I clarified the surgeons and vets follow up protocols and how they got the prognosis figures etc.

I have questioned and queried everything including seeking the primary cause, implications of surgery and other changes/strains to other areas of the body and was very happy with where we got to information wise (and lots and lots of tears).

I had actually decided to do the N&F surgery. Due to some other family/life commitments we were going to schedule end of NOV as I have to go away for 2 weeks and I want to be 100% present and available all the timem

When I worked out the dates he would already be 9 weeks into turn out rest SO figured we may as well do the non surgical approach first: check his hoove angles, shockwave, keep up his body work, rehab and slowly bring back into work.

Keep surgery up our sleeve for next time (if it happens again although I am prepared it will).

I have the pleasure of time and can continue to ride in the school on school horses for the rest of the year as I had already paid up my lesson block.

Thanks everyone for the support 👍
On another note I've become very proficient at giving IM injections for his ulcers haha so I figure we will just add to the list of lessons this boy has given me.
 
Well done on really looking into it! He is lucky to have you.

I had similar symptoms with my 7yo Welsh D. Vet told me his PSD was so bad recovery was minimal without N&F surgery. He wasn't lame, but had no push from behind and was lazy. In all honesty I did not notice a big difference after surgery but on the 'PSD Discussion group' Facebook page, lots see a improvement. I had everything x-rayed before going down the surgical route, after the op he had his SI medicated and then we found front foot pathology (one place we didn't x-ray prior to op) He is now a happy hack.

I'm going through the same again with my 6yo mare, scanned and PSD in one hind, PSD and a hole in both fronts. Vet also suspects SI pain. I wouldn't operate because she has to many other problems (neck, feet, hock)

Indiba sounds like it has a good success rate, and the Horses with PSD Facebook page has lots of advice on. Really wishing you all the luck.
 
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So, we finished his last Omeprazole injection last Sunday - 10 days ago, he had 4, but what now?

I have stuck with the vet who's managing his lameness rehab, he has his first shockwave on Monday so I will discuss with him but I am impatient.

Interested to know other people's treatment plans.
I have a few concerns: our paddocks have now gone bare and we have a huge hay shortage where I am normally they are on hay rolls but not available currently so being handfed AM/PM with reduced hardfeed as on rest.
He's a good doer and vet was worried he was getting cresty but I've noticed he eats poo - which is something he has been known to do.
I wonder if it's boredom?
But also with shortage of roughage that cannot be good for his ulcer recovery right?

He's currently on digestiveEQ but was looking at gastroaid recovery can they be on both? (This what is available in Aus)
He also on an EFA oil
He has free access to a salt lick also?

Thoughts? I'm sure it will be suggested to re scope - it was just such a shit show the last time with the previous vet 🙃
 
motherof2beasts! said:
Oh gosh I’m guessing that will be exempt from insurance as an existing injury. This sounds harsh but think very carefully before making any decision , i don’t think the odds are great for returning to work to the level you want. I brought my first horse (as an adult anyhow) who had a lot of issues, I spent thousands and got into a lot of debt for him to continue to be a very unhappy horse and was PTS. Hindsight’s a beautiful thing but given his condition I should have used my head and PTS at time of diagnosis.
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Sadly I agree.
 
SavvyTaylorMinogue said:
So, we finished his last Omeprazole injection last Sunday - 10 days ago, he had 4, but what now?

I have stuck with the vet who's managing his lameness rehab, he has his first shockwave on Monday so I will discuss with him but I am impatient.

Interested to know other people's treatment plans.
I have a few concerns: our paddocks have now gone bare and we have a huge hay shortage where I am normally they are on hay rolls but not available currently so being handfed AM/PM with reduced hardfeed as on rest.
He's a good doer and vet was worried he was getting cresty but I've noticed he eats poo - which is something he has been known to do.
I wonder if it's boredom?
But also with shortage of roughage that cannot be good for his ulcer recovery right?

He's currently on digestiveEQ but was looking at gastroaid recovery can they be on both? (This what is available in Aus)
He also on an EFA oil
He has free access to a salt lick also?

Thoughts? I'm sure it will be suggested to re scope - it was just such a shit show the last time with the previous vet 🙃
Click to expand...
I know hay availability in Aus can be a nightmare. But if you are after bulk/fibre with low calories content can you get oat/white chaff? Or oat or wheat hay even in small bales and bring him in for a bit daily, for a filling but low nutrient feed? Might stop him eating poo and help with the ulcers, though it's not as ideal as 24/7 access to roughage.
 
eahotson said:
eahotson said:
Sadly I agree.
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Given you've quoted a much older comment it may be possible you've not followed the rest of the thread. So I will address it.
Unless some other significant detail or new information/catastrophic injury comes to light I am not going to PTS an otherwise beautiful and happy animal just because he will need to live out his days as a happy paddock couch potato and currently the vet and his surgeons agree with this.
At worst he will/ is paddock sound and I have accepted the very strong probability that will be his permament situation - hes a fab paddock companion especially as a baby sitter for any young ones. My most recent queries was in regards to his ulcer treatment.
Click to expand...
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Well done on really looking into it! He is lucky to have you.

I had similar symptoms with my 7yo Welsh D. Vet told me his PSD was so bad recovery was minimal without N&F surgery. He wasn't lame, but had no push from behind and was lazy. In all honesty I did not notice a big difference after surgery but on the 'PSD Discussion group' Facebook page, lots see a improvement. I had everything x-rayed before going down the surgical route, after the op he had his SI medicated and then we found front foot pathology (one place we didn't x-ray prior to op) He is now a happy hack.

I'm going through the same again with my 6yo mare, scanned and PSD in one hind, PSD and a hole in both fronts. Vet also suspects SI pain. I wouldn't operate because she has to many other problems (neck, feet, hock)

Indiba sounds like it has a good success rate, and the Horses with PSD Facebook page has lots of advice on. Really wishing you all the luck.
Click to expand...
Oh yes I definately found that page super helpful!
INDIBA is not available where I am but we've got the rest going, shockwave all scheduled.
LED leg wraps, pulsed Ice boots, regular body worker booked fortmightly etc all prepped for once he starts rehab next week.
He's been loving all the massage attention and he seems to really love his LED too always very relaxed after - we've been doing them daily. Best of luck with your mare!
 
YourValentine said:
I know hay availability in Aus can be a nightmare. But if you are after bulk/fibre with low calories content can you get oat/white chaff? Or oat or wheat hay even in small bales and bring him in for a bit daily, for a filling but low nutrient feed? Might stop him eating poo and help with the ulcers, though it's not as ideal as 24/7 access to roughage.
Click to expand...
I will look into the chaff! Im pretty sure he gets some with his hardfeed already but will suss it out.
I've gotten him a slow feeder to slow things down to keep him busy.
We can't bring outside hay in since our livery grows there own and they very strict about cross contamination (understandable).
But yes this is just something he tends to do and has done before in the past even with previous owners and they always said it was hit and miss usually bored.
Hubby went to the hardware and has put togethor a whole bunch of brush heads and this Kong wobbly thing to keep him busy - he repositioned the sprinkler head the other day 🤣
 
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