Thoroughbred/racehorse experts! Good bloodlines?

Interesting to hear from someone who has experience with some of my horseys relatives...he was a flat horse but this is him doing his first ickle jump!
He is 15.3 but somehow seems quite pony like which I like! By the way his racing name is my sig red river rock...he once came second to a horse called red river rebel, the commentator certainly earned his money that day!!
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wits end said:
One of our broodmares had Native Dancer 4 and 6 gens back on the sire side, so quite a high recent concentration, it's nice to be able to trace her to the Darley Arabian through him.
She's nice and chilled, with a great work ethic, very clever but not naughty with it. My husband rides her in the years she isn't bred, and considering he's pretty much a novice she goes very nicely for him.
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Mine is 4 gen back, dam side. Didn't know you can trace them back to Darley arabian! Mine's an ISH mind. My mare is CH one side and ND the other. She too has a nice nature, very clever but very obliging :)
 
BoolavogueDC said:
Mine is 4 gen back, dam side. Didn't know you can trace them back to Darley arabian! Mine's an ISH mind. My mare is CH one side and ND the other. She too has a nice nature, very clever but very obliging :)
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I use sporthorse-data.com for pedigrees which where possible will trace the sire line back and stick the data together for you, plus stuff like percentage of inbreeding, so this is my ND mare. I think she realizes how clever she is, and therefore knows it's in her best interests to be a good girl.

Edit I feel really bad that I only thought of Carmen when thinking about ND, I have 2 others with him close up too. Mari, who is TB but graded into the Oldenburg main mare book, and and Mabel.
 
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The Mark Of Esteem we had was a nappy, quirky so and so who went sour very quickly. Not the greatest of jumpers either. He was pretty thoigh but was very upright through his limbs which is what I find in most Godolphin lines.

The 2 Mtoto's we had were nuts. Very enthusiastic and full of energy to the extent that they would canter sideways home from the gallops through tres, down ditches, into fences, other horses etc. In all they had no self presrvation and were, to be perfectly honest, reckless and scary to jump. None of it was malice or intended to hurt people they just simply had far too much energy than they knew what to do with. I think they were wired up wrong.
 
EKW said:
The 2 Mtoto's we had were nuts. Very enthusiastic and full of energy to the extent that they would canter sideways home from the gallops through tres, down ditches, into fences, other horses etc. In all they had no self presrvation and were, to be perfectly honest, reckless and scary to jump. None of it was malice or intended to hurt people they just simply had far too much energy than they knew what to do with. I think they were wired up wrong.
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Same with the only one I ever known, was meant to event but you just couldn't trust her to look after herself (and rider!). As you say, not out of nastiness, she just had to move at a million miles an hour.
 
But good bloodlines for what, doesn't it depend on whether you are looking for speed, stamina, jumping ability, temperament etc?

What I found interesting was when I posted on here and someone did a critique of my boy's bloodlines they picked out certain lines from a sportshorse point of view that you wouldn't necessarily pick out for a racehorse.

btw all tbs go back to the three foundation sires somewhere along the line but this site is quite good at for showing the direct route back to the Darley Arabian

Using Frank as an example
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=saint+francois&sex=&color=&dog_breed=any&birthyear=&birthland=

and temperament, laid back to the point of lazy, very bright opinionated thinking horse.
 
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Thanks EKW, that sounds like mine to a T!! He's too straight in the hock and has far too much energy, I would almost describe him as has having a split personality. He can be ultra laid back but if something sets him off, usually an imaginary monster he can be an utter nightmare. He's very sweet though but unfortunately done very little, he didn't race because of an accident then an injury and has continued much in that vein. He's quite buzzy to ride but again he's currently off sick.
 
Mine has a very easy personality but probably would be abit boring for anyone wanting a lively ride though he is forward going and happy in his work...the only negative I have heard regarding conformation traits is that Rainbow Quests offspring can have dodgy knees. All the research I have done seems to indicate long lived horses, Rainbow Quest was the oldest working sire I think...
 
Honeylight said:
Native Dancer was known to be a real nutter at stud. Savage & dangerous.
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From what I've read, not savage and dangerous, temperamental maybe but certainly not the rogue you're describing. There are sires in my horses pedigrees (notably Nasrullah) who were rumored to be much worse but I've never had issues with them.
 
Was nasrullah naughty! Have read he was 'tempremental' and abit lazy...quite like to think my horsey has the odd black sheep in the family!
 
redriverrock said:
Was nasrullah naughty! Have read he was 'tempremental' and abit lazy...quite like to think my horsey has the odd black sheep in the family!
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I'm told he was very hot, but manageable when in work, once retired a lot harder to deal with. If it's just a single line you have, there's probably not that much chance of it being noticably hereditory, but several lines close up like these mares, Luna and May creates an energetic horse with a lot of stamina, which could in inexperienced hands be viewed as too hot.
 
criso said:
But good bloodlines for what, doesn't it depend on whether you are looking for speed, stamina, jumping ability, temperament etc?

Yes it depends upon what the horse was designed for as to whether it has good bloodlines for it sphere. For example Yeats - he would be considered to have good bloodlines for staying stock/jumpers but you wouldn't put him anywhere near a 5furlong sprinter. That would be useless and thus very undesirable and come under the Bad Bloodlines heading. In turn you wouldn't put Kingsgate Native, a sprinter, to a jumping mare as the result will 99% be certain to be useless as a racehorse. So you just wouldn't cross them. The true great sires are able to sire anything. Sadler's Wells has sired Group 1 winners at every distance from 5f sprinting to the Cheltenham Gold Cup. He was a Super Sire. Others you could award with that accolade are Rainbow Quest and Danehill for their ability to sire almost any distance of horse under both codes.

What I found interesting was when I posted on here and someone did a critique of my boy's bloodlines they picked out certain lines from a sportshorse point of view that you wouldn't necessarily pick out for a racehorse.

btw all tbs go back to the three foundation sires somewhere along the line but this site is quite good at for showing the direct route back to the Darley Arabian

Using Frank as an example
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=saint+francois&sex=&color=&dog_breed=any&birthyear=&birthland=

and temperament, laid back to the point of lazy, very bright opinionated thinking horse.
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Looking at your horses pedigree is very much a jumping bred horse through and through. I'm guessing a decent height, deep bodied, thicker of bone with a decent length of rein and stride?
 
EKW said:
Looking at your horses pedigree is very much a jumping bred horse through and through. I'm guessing a decent height, deep bodied, thicker of bone with a decent length of rein and stride?
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Spot on - 16 2 but everyone thinks he's bigger and mistaken for a tbx or wb.

Now what I need is for someone to identify and eliminate the vet loving self harming bloodline...
 
My mares grandsire in dads side is Shirley Heights - apparently quirky ? Anybody know for sure ?
When I showed my YO her breeding she saw his name and said that explains her quirks.....
What were his 'quirks' ?
 
My boy is by zafonic. Very quirky, generally always on his toes, not an easy ride at all but is very honest and genuine. And boy, can he move!
 
I'm not that great on bloodlines but I heard Grey Soverign and buckpasser are good lines to have in TB horses for eventing although Grey Soverigns can be tempremental. There was a long thread about this in CR a while ago which was super interesting.
My late racing bred TB mare was out of Bobs Return and her dam sire was Lepanto. she was a stressy little thing, however she was genuine and a good jumper:-

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My current boy is out of Where or When who was by Danehill Dancer and his dam sire was Miswaki. I'm not sure his breeding particularly lends itself to anything other than racing as they all seem quite croup high his ancestors, however I think mine ended up with the good bits of both sides of his parents as he has turned out to be a very nice horse! He's pretty chilled out most of the time but he does have a very strong cheeky and playful side, he's very bright. He's fabulous actually, very athletic:-

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I find TB breeding fascinating :). It's amazing how an animal bred so specifically for one thing can be so versatile!
 
My TBx is by Able Albert out of Carnival Jewel, no idea on dams breeding, can't find any details anywhere which is a shame.
My TB is Young Rosoce by Roscoe Blake out of Royal heiress, all i know is that he was her first foal and that was the only time he was ever first lol:rolleyes: he only raced once and came last bless him:o never looked into his pedigree before but just did and Roscoe Blake and Able Albert share some ancestry:D how sweet lol long lost cousins reunited;)
 
My mare is by Josr Algarhoud who I was told could be quite quirky? Great grandparents include Shirley Heights and Soviet Star, great great grandparents include Mill Reef, Northern Dancer, Nuryev and Hawaii. She also has Man'O'War and War Admiral in her line!
http://www.pedigreequery.com/my+les
 
I worked for the man who trained Mtoto, so he was sent a few, they were all quirky, which the lads who had been there when Mtoto was said wasn't a surprise!
The only Shirley Heights horse I have come across was quite sharp, and the few Zafonics I have known all had attitude, but not in a bad way.
 
Did Shirley Heights pass his 'sharpness' onto his offspring?

ETA: I broke in a Storm Cat grandson last year (his sire was One Cool Cat, his uncle Hurricane Fly) he was a little sod but my God I loved that little horse!
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
My mare is by Josr Algarhoud who I was told could be quite quirky? Great grandparents include Shirley Heights and Soviet Star, great great grandparents include Mill Reef, Northern Dancer, Nuryev and Hawaii. She also has Man'O'War and War Admiral in her line!
http://www.pedigreequery.com/my+les
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We have half sisters ! Her Dam was Double Fault.

If Josr Algarhoud is quirky it must come from the Shirley Heights side then.

Is yours quirky ? I don't think mine is especially , just very very spooky i.e spook then spook because she's made herself jump because she spooked......
Never spins or tries to get away though.
 
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