Those of you who are 'self taught'...

[Sarah1]

...how did you do it? Have you ever had any formal instruction or are you truly self taught? Do you think it makes you braver if not quite as 'technically correct'? Has it taken a lot longer time-wise to get to the same level as those with regular/correct/formal instruction? What level are you riding at?

General musings really, I'd be really interested to hear both sides actually

Thanks in advance

 

[katiieking]

I would classify myself as kinda both?

I've had pony club lessons and riding lessons when I was beginning, I'm not 21 and go to a lesson maybe once every other month? If it's during the summer it would be a lot more because I'm competiting for my club and they provide them.

But I have never had a private lesson more than once a year and do not have weekly lessons like some people enjoy! So I would say I am a bit of both?

I think that I've actually improved more since I've been competing, and more experienced people will pass a comment, like "Sit up a wee bit more when that happens!" or even as simple as "You just came into it too fast!"! That's the kind of comments I pick up on, and use them to try and improve!

It's usually comments with a dig that make me improve, people arn't being mean, they think it's funny, so do I to be honest, but I also use it to improve;

"Could you get your hands any further up her neck?"
"Could you jump that from any further out?"
"Any higher up and you may as well just stand on her saddle!"
"Were you trying to jump it the wrong way round or were you just not paying attention?"

People thing that people are being mean to me, but it's usually from friends who I would classify as good riders, and they know I'm very thick skinned, I can take sarcasm no problem!

But yeah, kinda self taught, just taking on board every wee comment

 

[JFTDWS]

Well, I could fall into this category. I had about a year's worth of lessons at an RS when I was 10, then bought a pony. Had lessons for another 6 months or so (mainly focussed on how to deal with him being a knob) then pretty much left to my own devices for 14 years or so. Have had 2 lessons in the last 5 years or so - 1 on an RS horse (I was actually there to check out the RI for a friend ) and one jumping which I largely ignored due to a difference of opinion with the instructor.

I'm definitely not braver because of it. I have many flaws, but I film myself and tear myself apart regularly so I am largely aware of them and normally trying to fix them.

I'm not riding at any particular impressive level (ha!) - unaffiliated stuff mostly, pony is schooling elem. However, that's partly due to my horses - semi-retired cob (who I never competed before the age of 16ish due to lack of transport, then did unaff stuff) and youngish highland (any form of serious affiliated competition is unlikely given his breeding!). But perhaps that's making excuses. There's no reason why the highland couldn't be working at a higher level dressage and BDing with a better rider, or popping round low level BE, so yes, probably would be competing at a higher level with a rider who took tuition better

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I had riding lessons until I was 10 and haven't had one since - that was 15years ago ...

I know I have my bad habbits such as leaning forward slightly and riding in a bit of a hunting seat but I figured I can't be doing that badly seeing as the ponies I have broken and ridden in the show ring do well as do my retrained racers that I brought home from work. I also get a lot of people asking me to back their small ponies for them.

Im sure a BHS instructor would strip me right down but hey ho!

 

[humblepie]

I have lots of lessons now but....in my young days up to about 14 did Pony Club then never really had any lessons for the best part of 25 years apart from a summer when I went and did my BHSAI and a month of so as an unpaid WP. During that time I did local shows and then show jumped up to Fox/Grade C with a little ex racehorse who had her own way of going.

Since then I have mainly shown and do have quite a few lessons and find I really do need them often as much for the eyes on the ground as anything else.

 

[Firewell]

I'm pretty much self taught. Got given a naughty pony aged 7, fell off loads and got better. Figured out how to get my pony on the bit myself ect. I didn't really get lessons until I went to pony club. Then I didn't have lessons for years. It was only when I got my young TB after uni and I could afford to pay for my own lessons that I started having regular instruction.
Even now I can go months without a lesson.
I have a good seat, not easily shifted and I think I can ride with feel. Can get a tune out of most horses.
Problem is I also have a million and one bad habits that imo stop me from being as effective as I could be and its virtually impossible to get rid of them.
I don't think being totally self taught is a good thing. I don't think only riding at a riding school is good either.

 

[milliepops]

...how did you do it? Have you ever had any formal instruction or are you truly self taught? Do you think it makes you braver if not quite as 'technically correct'? Has it taken a lot longer time-wise to get to the same level as those with regular/correct/formal instruction? What level are you riding at?

General musings really, I'd be really interested to hear both sides actually

Thanks in advance

Up to this time last year I was pretty much self taught in dressage - scrabbled our way up to Medium mainly watching other people in lessons and competition, reading anything and everything, going to demos etc. It has definitely taken a long time I'm sure we would have got here sooner with a bit of help, especially as Millie is the first horse I've trained to anything above Novice so it was a case of the blind leading the blind.
I'm definitely not braver, rather the opposite - I overthink things and am wracked with doubt most of the time! I moved yards and now have a lesson every month or so which is a great sense check and I was so relieved to find my trainer wasn't horrified with what we had done so far.

I evented to Novice with almost no outside help but then had roughly monthly jumping lessons which were a godsend for my SJ. I had some terrible habits which needed addressing in order for us to progress I never found it as 'easy' to pick up ideas or even just get a feel for how we should be training by watching other people jump, somehow I find it easier to absorb dressage from the ground if that makes sense.

ETA, like JFTD I find videoing a huge help, I had a tripod for xmas so I can video myself

 

[Sameru]

Sitting on anything, feeling what works and hunting til my feet are numb with cold!!

 

[TarrSteps]

Marcel Proust once wrote: “We cannot be taught wisdom, we have to discover it for ourselves by a journey which no one can undertake for us, an effort which no one can spare us.”

 

[kerilli]

I think Anna Sewell said it perfectly...

I am GLAD I had/have instructors, to save my horses from many of the mistakes I might have made, mistakes that day-in-day out might destroy a horse physically or mentally.
I don't think it is fair on the animal to try to carve your own path when that's a path that has already been cut through the jungle by hundreds of thousands of horsemen and -women, and horses. I still made mistakes when on my own, unfortunately, and some of those still haunt me, but I made a lot less of them thanks to good instructors.
Unless the rider has great natural balance and almost overriding sensitivity to the horse, I cannot see how being 'self taught' has been easy on the horses.
And something a great trainer says, at the right moment, can save months of struggling...

 

[TableDancer]

Marcel Proust once wrote: “We cannot be taught wisdom, we have to discover it for ourselves by a journey which no one can undertake for us, an effort which no one can spare us.”

Blimey

 

[kerilli]

Blimey

I quake when TS starts quoting Proust before 9am...

 

[Gamebird]

Marcel Proust once wrote: “We cannot be taught wisdom, we have to discover it for ourselves by a journey which no one can undertake for us, an effort which no one can spare us.”

I'm going to hugely misinterpret you here, but it's mostly your own fault for quoting literary Frenchmen at us before I've had my second cup of tea .

Sooo.... we need to develop our own wisdom, but presumably you'd argue that the self-development of wisdom will lead us to the realisation that we ought to improve our riding through instruction

Or have I grasped the wrong end of the philosophy stick?

 

[TarrSteps]

Blimey

I've rendered TD speechless!

Anyway, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread as I have nothing more useful to add.

 

[humblepie]

So did Marcel Proust reinvent the wheel or did he decide someone had already done it so use it?

That's about as deep thinking as I get.

 

[Gamebird]

I've rendered TD speechless!

Anyway, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread as I have nothing more useful to add.

I don't think we're going to let you away with that one! Unless you want 'enigmatic' adding to your 'wise Canadian' moniker?

 

[kerilli]

I'm going to hugely misinterpret you here, but it's mostly your own fault for quoting literary Frenchmen at us before I've had my second cup of tea .

Sooo.... we need to develop our own wisdom, but presumably you'd argue that the self-development of wisdom will lead us to the realisation that we ought to improve our riding through instruction

Or have I grasped the wrong end of the philosophy stick?

That's how I interpreted it. Haven't had a coffee yet though.

Wasn't it the Duke of Wellington who said one should get over heavy ground as lightly as one can?

 

[paddi22]

I've never seen a self taught rider who looked like a lovely rider. I've seen self taught rider that have good seats and can stay on anything, but i've never seen one getting a horse working properly and nicely. Unless they are really diligent and video themselves and analyse the footage.

Usually self taught people get to a certain stage, and then their bad habits stop them progressing properly. You need a good set of eyes on the ground to give you feedback I think. A lot of times people horses might feel like they working in a pretty frame, but from the ground you can see they are overbent/avoiding contact etc. Any self taught people i've seen get stuck at a certain level, and have bad habits that are absolutely ingrained into them from years.

 

[Gamebird]

Not quite on a literary heavyweight par with Proust, but Mark Twain had something fairly pertinent to say on the subject:

“The self taught man seldom knows anything accurately, and he does not know a tenth as much as he could have known if he had worked under teachers, and besides, he brags, and is the means of fooling other thoughtless people into going and doing as he”

And so say all of us...

 

[redriverrock]

I havent got any 'wise words'...way to early in the day for that but it is an interesting question which I have often wondered myself. I had lessons as I wasnt lucky enough to have my own pony growing up so that was my only way of riding. I was probably technically fairly correct because of this but when it came to real life situations where I had to think for myself I think I would of been pretty rubbish. Fast forward to my kids who started off having lessons 3/4 times a week, then bought a pony for them which we keep at home, lots of hours in the saddle at home with a lesson once a week to reinforce the 'correct' way of doing things. Son has been riding for 2 years but is far more capable than I was and can happily hack out with me and deal with situations that I would have struggled with.

 

[kerilli]

Not quite on a literary heavyweight par with Proust, but Mark Twain had something fairly pertinent to say on the subject:

“The self taught man seldom knows anything accurately, and he does not know a tenth as much as he could have known if he had worked under teachers, and besides, he brags, and is the means of fooling other thoughtless people into going and doing as he”

And so say all of us...

AMEN.

 

[TarrSteps]

I didn't mean to start an outpouring of philosophy!

Obviously the ideal is a balance - knowing what you need to accomplish and being given time enough to really learn for yourself how to do it. I will say though, many of the people I know who are held up as examples of being completely self-taught successful competitors are really only people who have not had a lot of formal lessons! I read an article about someone I know who was held up as just such an example. . .except a member of her family is a very successful competition producer and she rode many horses for them as a child, she has worked for years - both formally and informally - for someone who produces and trains horses and riders to a high level, along with working for good people in other spheres . . . I really cannot believe, in all that time, none of those people have said "Do this, don't do that." Plus she has had the opportunity to ride many horses trained by other people - an invaluable learning experience! So to say to someone with their one horse in their backyard "Look what you can accomplish without any instruction!" is just unfair, if you ask me. This person had had few lessons, true, but had been exposed to high level competition horses and riding literally from the time she could walk.

I did give a few lessons (I know, this goes against the point) to a girl who did literally learn to ride well in a matter of days. BUT she was also a champion Judo competitor from literally infancy (father was a professional) and while I agree, she hadn't been taught any riding, per se, she HAD been taught a lot of transferable skills. So "self taught" or not?

She also had the abililty to know and learn correct "feel" based on her previous education. . .in my experience this is an essential and difficult to obtain element to riding well. People who have had the chance to develop good, correct feel - which can come from many sources, including having a good horse to ride very early on - need very little instruction outside the technicalities of the sport. But if you don't know if your feel is right or not you can go waaaaaay down the wrong paths and not even know it! (With a big cost to horses.)

I was brought up in a part of the world where many people were self-taught and often had little exposure to horse shows or even many other riders. A lot of horses still worked for a living in a way that few do now. It could go both ways. Some were very competent, at least to the level they needed to be, others were absolutely horrific. I don't use that term lightly, btw - one horse was rescued by someone I knew after being "harnessed" with that yellow nylon rope that had literally burned into its skin. Which is also an indicator of how wrong it can be and yet the horse is still going!

I think if you are very careful, read and observe a lot, have a suitable horse, have a good idea of what you are trying to accomplish and have a bit of luck on your side, it is possible to progress a fair distance without formal instruction. But I have yet to see anyone reach a high competitive level without at least some help from someone who has been there before. Most of the good horsemen I know prioritise learning through their whole lives. Obviously there are lots of ways to get where you want to go but often the quickest and easiest is to ask someone who has been there before for directions.

 

[JFTDWS]

On the other hand, is no tuition worse than bad tuition?

The only thing I regret doing with my old cob was having a couple of lessons (about a decade ago) with a fully qualified BHS instructor (actually used to teach at an Equine college) who encouraged me to "saw" him onto an outline, pull at his mouth, bit him up and put more and more weight on him to improve him for the show ring. I did it for a very short period, didn't like it and went back to working him on a longer rein and focussing on hacking and having fun rather than that sort of schooling. I genuinely believe he would be a lot less sound now had I persisted with her tuition.

Ideally, yes, you get a good instructor. However, I was a teenager, with a non-competitive type horse, no transport, on a reasonably limited small yard and no contacts to know who to trust. I thought a well qualified instructor was the way to go - when I wasn't comfortable with their methods, I presumed it was the BHS way I didn't like (rather than that the instructor was just bad at it) and figured I might as well find my own path.

Now I tend to shy away from instruction because I hate being stuck in a situation where I'm asked to do something that doesn't "feel" right for my horse. Which is rubbish, because I could learn a lot from good tuition, but equally I fear I could ruin everything we have by listening to someone and putting aside my own doubts.

It means we don't progess at any speed. And it's a different kettle of fish to anyone competing at any significant level. But, my motivation has never been some egotistical desire to "cut my own path" - I've only ever wanted to do right by my horses and not screw them up, and I am the person who cares most about not screwing my horses up in the whole world - not any instructor.

I accept that I'm "wrong", and looking at everything from a skewed perspective though.

 

[Sarah1]

Wow! Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments - you've certainly answered my ponderings! Some of the replies were super deep though, had to read them a few times!
I haven't had many lessons through my life if I'm honest and have been around horses for many years (30 ish) - I was sat on a pony at 5 years old & it followed my Sisters mare and that's how I learned to ride! I've had a few lessons in the years in between and a few with my current horse but I think I would absolutely benefit from some more formal instruction - I have quite a few bad habits (nothing that could be too detrimental to my horse I don't think - my hands are ineffectively soft and I tend to tip forwards a bit and I could absolutely do with some work on the lunge without stirrups but I'm quite sticky too so I suppose that's the only way I've benefitted from being 'self taught'.
Right, better get my backside in gear & book some proper lessons...!
Thanks again

 

[paddi22]

On the other hand, is no tuition worse than bad tuition?

Which is rubbish, because I could learn a lot from good tuition, but equally I fear I could ruin everything we have by listening to someone and putting aside my own doubts.

But a good instructor should be able to listen and empathise with your doubts and explain rationally and clearly WHY there is a better way to do them, and then show how much better the horse feels when doing it this new way.

I would never trust an instructor I haven't seen ride my horse. I love seeing someone get on him and make him go better, more relaxed and flowing that I ever could. My main goal then is to learn and understand what they do to get him going that way. I absolutely love working under a good trainer and would spend every penny I have getting more lessons if I could!

 

[TarrSteps]

On the other hand, is no tuition worse than bad tuition?

I accept that I'm "wrong", and looking at everything from a skewed perspective though.

I don't think that's very "wrong" - of course you are the person most invested in you and your horse's safety and enjoyment. If your horse is comfortable, its doing what you want it to do safely and happily, and you both have a decent understanding of what you want to accomplish, then there is no problem. You sound very sensible!

I do think the problem comes when people start getting ambitious or run in to problems though, and avoid help out of pride rather than simply because none is available to them. If you were to say, decide to go out and jump bigger xc fences and had a crashing fall or ended up with a refusing horse because you missed some essential aspect of educating the horse for the task, that would not be so sensible. It's when people start pushing - literally and figuratively - that the problems can start. And with experience comes the unhappy realisation that not all problems are obvious initially, even the big ones, and that you cannot always put Humpty Dumpty back together again. As I said, best is to find the appropriate balance for you, your horse, and your ambitions.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I have regular lessons now and I so enjoy them - I have a brilliant instructor who explains why she is getting me to do certain exercises and how shoulder in and quarters in and leg yielding translate into travers etc. She challenges me by making me do counter canter - things I would never stretch to alone and it is so good to have a critical eye on the ground so I can make the necessary correction there and then. I think there is nothing worse than continuing in an incorrect way unknowingly.

I also have another great trainer I am using for my WB and we are working on his straightness and correct movement. She has such an eye for balance and straightness it's amazes me. I really beleive if you find the right instructor they will open up an exciting world for you.

I also think you can learn so much by watching and comparing and experimenting. Not everything works for every horse. It's good to question too. I regularly watch the affiliated dressage - fascinating seeing the different styles and now I can see how the horses have been trained - some classically (which I prefer) and some rather more forced and some so supple they are like snakes and just a joy to watch Also the riders - those who are so quiet and they use the most discreet of aids and others who adopt the 'driving position' like they are driving a tank.

I agree that bad habits are easy to slip into so for me some form of lessons is essential. It is like driving a car - you do cut corners and get sloppy with time and experience imo

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

I've never seen a self taught rider who looked like a lovely rider. I've seen self taught rider that have good seats and can stay on anything, but i've never seen one getting a horse working properly and nicely. Unless they are really diligent and video themselves and analyse the footage.

This ^^^

Usually self taught people get to a certain stage, and then their bad habits stop them progressing properly. You need a good set of eyes on the ground to give you feedback I think. A lot of times people horses might feel like they working in a pretty frame, but from the ground you can see they are overbent/avoiding contact etc. Any self taught people i've seen get stuck at a certain level, and have bad habits that are absolutely ingrained into them from years.

Oh yes and this ^^

 

[Vanha12]

When I first saw the thread my reaction was 'is there such a thing?' and to be fair, most who say they are 'self-taught' have had some sort of instruction. I think most are saying they had lessons but haven't for a long time. I know when I stopped having lessons for a couple of years aged 17 (a long time ago!) I fell into terrible habits whilst thinking I was still riding exactly the same. If you want to really get the most out of your horse, for me, you need some good instruction and a lot of hard work. Maybe there are others more naturally talented? I don't know...

 

[Kat]

I have had lots if lessons, mainly due to many many many years with no horse. I certainly progress better with instruction, providing it is good instruction. I certainly wouldn't challenge myself anywhere near as much as an instructor might, a good instructor knows how far to push to achieve progress without over facing horse or rider. It is difficult to do the same alone.

People who say they are self taught don't impress me at all. It simply smacks of arrogance. I can understand someone not having access to tuition and making the best of what is available (as JFTD describes) but it will always be a poor substitute for GOOD tuition. The leap in progress I made in one good lesson recently just showed me how worthwhile paying for good tuition is, even if it is a one off clinic.

Anyway if Mark Todd still has lessons/training I am certainly still in need!