Those of you with your own small yards...

[SpottyTB]

Evening,

I'm curious really and on the cusp of making a decision!

Those of you who have small livery yards (DIY - no more than 5 horses), do you make money from having them on your land?
We bought a 15 acre small holding last year and inherited 2 lovely liveries (with 2 horses each), its been a difficult winter granted but I genuinely am not sure I make a penny from having them here?

Would be interested in the thoughts of those who have been in my position.. its pretty difficult to work out how much they cost to be here but i do know I'm short on grass for my three.. pumping feed and hay into them which is probably costing me at least one livery income.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense - I feel a huge amount of guilt already.. before I've even made a decision.

stb

 

[ihatework]

I honestly doubt many small holdings make money. Best you could hope for it enough to run your own horses.

You need to do the sums and work out if it’s worth it to you or not. If not, either hike up the charge or get rid. The former might make them walk anyway.

 

[Abacus]

I have two liveries here, not intentional, they were foisted upon me for complicated reasons. One pays nothing but helps by feeding all of them three mornings a week and when needed, and that saves money paying someone else. The other - I do appreciate the c. £300 per month - I don’t feel that her one pony makes me significantly shorter on grazing, it certainly doesn’t cost that much per month to hay one of mine. I’d call it a nice bonus towards maintenance but it definitely wouldn’t make a living especially if you have to pay a mortgage on the property.

 

[Clodagh]

If they weren’t there would you be able to turn yours out more and therefore spend less on food? Or is everywhere so wet it doesn’t make a huge difference?
You need to do proper sums and see.

 

[SantaVera]

Difficult to make a profit if the liveries horses damage anything it can end up costing money. It's all a balance, fencing needs renewing at sometime and menages need maintenance even if it's only me using the facilities,so liveries can help offset these costs and the fact that there are people around means I can go away for the weekend and know that there Is someone around to keep an eye on my horses.you do need to be realistic in pricing,if it's costing you more than you are charging then changes need to be made.

 

[ycbm]

I've only had my own horses on my land, but I'm reasonably sure that if you added every penny of maintenance of fields, fences, driveway, gates, stables, roofs, gutters, metered water, electricity, muck removal, arena top up .... that nobody makes money out of 4 DiY liveries, especially if they are feeding their own horses more as a result.

If they don't give you benefits like cover when you want to go away, then I would probably nicely give them notice.
.

 

[Abacus]

I've only had my own horses on my land, but I'm reasonably sure that if you added every penny of maintenance of fields, fences, driveway, gates, stables, roofs, gutters, metered water, electricity, muck removal, arena top up .... that nobody makes money out of 4 DiY liveries, especially if they are feeding their own horses more as a result.

If they don't give you benefits like cover when you want to go away, then I would probably nicely give them notice.
.

I agree that these things mean you don’t make money overall. However the amount you get does contribute, which is better than nothing - many of those things would need doing whether the liveries were there or not.

 

[SpottyTB]

Abacus - I wish one made that much money... they dont even pay that for two at the moment ... DIY (nothing extra inc). I think i'd have to have my muck heap removed once instead of four times (saving £200)... fields wouldn't be as trashed so less maintenance (as it stands after this winter - which i know has been horrendous, I am going to have to reseed the 4 acres they have for winter paddocks). I've just re read and realised that I sound like i've made my decision...

Clodagh - yes, I have a stressy warmblood who has a desire to be a feral bog pony and is happiest like that.. they come in by day and it works (he just about copes) but if I didn't have the 4 extra's, i could have them out 24/7 or at least not have to put hay in the field all year round and probably take a cut of hay too.

As far as liveries go they are very good, but there are some niggles i have (not poo picked religiously in the summer, I have to rearrange the muck heap daily, horses left in until 11am etc).

 

[Clodagh]

In that case put the price up enormously to cover everything… or ask them to leave. I would never compromise my own horses welfare to avoid upsetting others. I too had a stressy horse who had to live out and you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[94lunagem]

I have mine at home and used to have a couple of liveries years ago. They left for various reasons over time and I made a conscious choice not to replace them. I never set out to make a profit from them, it was more about pitching in (I work full time) and I knew I wasn’t charging market rates and I only ever passed on hay, bedding and the like at cost. I was ok with that if it meant the occasional evening off.

But, once it became more trouble than it was worth, together with hassle and no financial reward, that was when I decided there’d be no more once they’d gone.

Having worked damn hard to have the “dream” of mine at home, if you do decide to get rid, I think you’ll find it refreshing only having your own to worry about. I move my horses round paddocks when it suits me. I can do what I like when I like and I don’t have to consider or work around someone else.

You say yours are lovely, and the right ones can be. But for me, I’d consider letting nature take its course in terms of yours moving on but then think about going it alone.

 

[94lunagem]

As far as liveries go they are very good, but there are some niggles i have (not poo picked religiously, I have to rearrange the muck heap daily, horses left in until 11am etc).

My post crossed with your update. If there are niggles then I’d be giving notice.

You shouldn’t feel guilty prioritising your own needs on your own land.

 

[ihatework]

Abacus - I wish one made that much money... they dont even pay that for two at the moment ... DIY (nothing extra inc). I think i'd have to have my muck heap removed once instead of four times (saving £200)... fields wouldn't be as trashed so less maintenance (as it stands after this winter - which i know has been horrendous, I am going to have to reseed the 4 acres they have for winter paddocks). I've just re read and realised that I sound like i've made my decision...

Clodagh - yes, I have a stressy warmblood who has a desire to be a feral bog pony and is happiest like that.. they come in by day and it works (he just about copes) but if I didn't have the 4 extra's, i could have them out 24/7 or at least not have to put hay in the field all year round and probably take a cut of hay too.

As far as liveries go they are very good, but there are some niggles i have (not poo picked religiously in the summer, I have to rearrange the muck heap daily, horses left in until 11am etc).

Definitely not worth it then.
Bye bye liveries.

 

[Abacus]

Abacus - I wish one made that much money... they dont even pay that for two at the moment ... DIY (nothing extra inc). I think i'd have to have my muck heap removed once instead of four times (saving £200)... fields wouldn't be as trashed so less maintenance (as it stands after this winter - which i know has been horrendous, I am going to have to reseed the 4 acres they have for winter paddocks). I've just re read and realised that I sound like i've made my decision...

Clodagh - yes, I have a stressy warmblood who has a desire to be a feral bog pony and is happiest like that.. they come in by day and it works (he just about copes) but if I didn't have the 4 extra's, i could have them out 24/7 or at least not have to put hay in the field all year round and probably take a cut of hay too.

As far as liveries go they are very good, but there are some niggles i have (not poo picked religiously in the summer, I have to rearrange the muck heap daily, horses left in until 11am etc).

The £300 includes giving the pony feed and hay (but not the cost of the feed and hay). Some of that work is outsourced to the other livery, and throwing a feed and hay at the pony doesn’t take me any longer on the other days. Without that it would be about £150 per month.

 

[maya2008]

My YO makes money - they do zero maintenance. No fencing or field maintenance, no water provided. All up to us (literally - the boundary fence is Fieldguard electric fencing and will go with us when we leave, as we provided and installed it!!).

 

[honetpot]

I tried having liveries, but its like what ever you say, or is written down in a contract is somehow converted to, I can do as I please to do the least amount of work. I have had hidden poo heaps in the field, even if the poo is picked, and they never ever check their animals as much as they say they do. I think its,'well she lives on site so she will ring if there is a problem@
. My muck heap is now just over £200 to be removed, its stacked so thats down to once a year, my husband does all the odd jobs, if mine break something, I feel guilty but their mine.
Some came the other week looking for grazing and a shed, I spent about an hour with them, after a week of no contact at all, I have let my farrier have the grazing for his cattle. They then FB and say they want it, no chance.

 

[SpottyTB]

The £300 includes giving the pony feed and hay (but not the cost of the feed and hay). Some of that work is outsourced to the other livery, and throwing a feed and hay at the pony doesn’t take me any longer on the other days. Without that it would be about £150 per month.

this is funny but makes me realise I’m a soft touch moron… they have two horses here + I feed/turnout both and put a neck on one x5 days a week and it very rarely goes over £300 with those extras. I run three other very successful businesses … but I’m not being very smart here am I..

 

[HopOnTrot]

We only have ours at home as we rent land (but have our own stables) but the aim for our next house move is to have enough space to do AirBnB with overnight livery as we are close to 3 Counties/Hartpury. I wouldn’t want permanent liveries but I see this as a way to generate income from the land. We wouldn’t own more than 3 of our own though.

Need to finish this house first though before we can move so won’t be for a while!

 

[SEL]

I have just under 7 acres abc there were liveries when I bought the land but I served notice on all but 2 ponies. One belonged to the ex owner and the other was "complicated". The first winter there were 5 horses but it was pretty dry and we still struggled.

I've now got just my 3 and that's enough. My winter field looks like it's had elephants on it after all this rain but with just mine I've rested the remaining land and it's coming through nicely.

Plus the poo picking is done!

 

[SpottyTB]

I have just under 7 acres abc there were liveries when I bought the land but I served notice on all but 2 ponies. One belonged to the ex owner and the other was "complicated". The first winter there were 5 horses but it was pretty dry and we still struggled.

I've now got just my 3 and that's enough. My winter field looks like it's had elephants on it after all this rain but with just mine I've rested the remaining land and it's coming through nicely.

Plus the poo picking is done!

I think this Is the biggest thing for me..

I’ve got a bog on the bottom half of my 4 acres and the top half is underwater… when it drys up enough I have a 3/4 of an acre paddock I can put my two big boys out on … but that’s it.. and realistically that will support them for 3 weeks, which isn’t enough time for my big field to bounce back …

 

[SpottyTB]

We only have ours at home as we rent land (but have our own stables) but the aim for our next house move is to have enough space to do AirBnB with overnight livery as we are close to 3 Counties/Hartpury. I wouldn’t want permanent liveries but I see this as a way to generate income from the land. We wouldn’t own more than 3 of our own though.

Need to finish this house first though before we can move so won’t be for a while!

Great idea! We’re based in cornwall, reckon that maybe a good venture!

 

[gallopingby]

The only advantage l can see of having liveries is if they can be relied on to provide cover so you can happily go away because they are reliable and know how things work. If you still have to pay someone so you can go away then it probably isn’t worth it. Fortunately l’m now too far from civilisation for anyone to bother coming to ask but previously l had people ‘just wondering’ if they could come for a few weeks. The answer was always no sorry.

 

[SpottyTB]

The only advantage l can see of having liveries is if they can be relied on to provide cover so you can happily go away because they are reliable and know how things work. If you still have to pay someone so you can go away then it probably isn’t worth it. Fortunately l’m now too far from civilisation for anyone to bother coming to ask but previously l had people ‘just wondering’ if they could come for a few weeks. The answer was always no sorry.

Very fortunate in that my mother in law lives onsite and is horsey so would be able to assist! So not really of benefit then, although one did live in for a weekend when we all went away this winter but that probably won’t happen again.

 

[SEL]

I think this Is the biggest thing for me..

I’ve got a bog on the bottom half of my 4 acres and the top half is underwater… when it drys up enough I have a 3/4 of an acre paddock I can put my two big boys out on … but that’s it.. and realistically that will support them for 3 weeks, which isn’t enough time for my big field to bounce back …

My winter field is about 2.5 acres and it's the best draining bit but if it's trashed over winter it gets 8-9 months off.

The fields were a state when I bought the place because they hadn't been rested for years but they bounce back well now. Just 3 horses in a little herd means I can move them as and when

I do need freelancers in when we're away but they're professionals and I know they'll do what's needed (rug changes, poo picking etc) without issue.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

this is funny but makes me realise I’m a soft touch moron… they have two horses here + I feed/turnout both and put a neck on one x5 days a week and it very rarely goes over £300 with those extras. I run three other very successful businesses … but I’m not being very smart here am I..

Erm nope, just normal grass livery round my way is about £180 a month plus extras. What you are doing would be classed as part grass livery which a friend is payng about £450 a month for her horse, granted ahe has a school etc.

I would sit down, work out baisc grass livery cost then services and then a package for part livery for each horse and pop a nice letter saying due to the cost of everything going up you now need to charge more along the lines of market rate for what you provide and as of 1st april (or may if you want to be nice) costs will be going up and you can pick between these two packages.


In my eyes it shoulr be about £350 per horse per month all in.

Then it will leave in their hands etc.

 

[irishdraft]

I have a yard about the same size as yours and I have tried every type of livery going. The only one I made any money at was full livery. Most of the damage done to my stables & fencing has been done by liveries , by the time you add up water, muck disposal, electric etc plus the general inconvenience it is definitely not worth it.

 

[SpottyTB]

Erm nope, just normal grass livery round my way is about £180 a month plus extras. What you are doing would be classed as part grass livery which a friend is payng about £450 a month for her horse, granted ahe has a school etc.

I would sit down, work out baisc grass livery cost then services and then a package for part livery for each horse and pop a nice letter saying due to the cost of everything going up you now need to charge more along the lines of market rate for what you provide and as of 1st april (or may if you want to be nice) costs will be going up and you can pick between these two packages.


In my eyes it shoulr be about £350 per horse per month all in.

Then it will leave in their hands etc.

It’s quite cheap down here, it’s around £25-35 pw DIY… we haven’t caught up with the rest of the country !! I wouldn’t have to run 3 businesses if I charged £350 a horse!! The dream!

Irishdraught - I’d consider having one full livery in.. as one full would be around the same as what I get from having 4 here on DIY.

To be honest, it’s not about making money as much as not losing money and I just think at the moment I’m losing money… and also I could have happier horses and healthier land!

I know if I put the rent up, they will leave as i know it’s a squeeze now!

 

[Lucky Snowball]

We're in Devon and going rate is about £25 per horse for the field and shelter or stable. That's without a school and without electric. Any help or services would be extra.

 

[gallopingby]

It’s quite cheap down here, it’s around £25-35 pw DIY… we haven’t caught up with the rest of the country !! I wouldn’t have to run 3 businesses if I charged £350 a horse!! The dream!

Irishdraught - I’d consider having one full livery in.. as one full would be around the same as what I get from having 4 here on DIY.

To be honest, it’s not about making money as much as not losing money and I just think at the moment I’m losing money… and also I could have happier horses and healthier land!

I know if I put the rent up, they will leave as i know it’s a squeeze now!

Why not put the rent up and see what happens? If they leave you could consider having one full livery - someone who genuinely needs it maybe because they’re away a lot or just leave things and have a stress free time with your own horses.

 

[Vodkagirly]

It sounds like having them there isn't benefiting you financially at the moment. Do they have other benefits? Is it useful to have company to ride with or do they ever cover yours?
I think you need to do your sums and adjust prices accordingly (don't forget to pay your own time) if they leave so be it. You then have the choice of either having the place to yourself or advertising for people at a more appropriate rate.
We bought our place with the intention of doing livery. This was delayed due to lock down. By then I'd realised that the amount people will pay for my facilities and what it costs me don't match. I now only do overnight stabling for events.

 

[SpottyTB]

We're in Devon and going rate is about £25 per horse for the field and shelter or stable. That's without a school and without electric. Any help or services would be extra.

Yes that’s pretty much what we are, £26 pw inc their own paddocks (they have around 2.5-3 acres each), stable with electric/water and their own tack/feed store area. Plus an area to store forage.

Then on top of this I charge £3 to feed & turn out (for two so works about £1.50 each horse a day).