thought on the whole shoes/barefoot thing

[Pale Rider]

There must be acres of print now about the benefits of barefoot, the reasons for it. Equally the only benefit of shoes is that they hide what's really going on. Yet people still trot out the same stupid reasons for shoeing. Does nobody read and understand how feet work, why do we have to go over and over this stuff. Thick or what.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Sorry for the hijack, and not just a question for you Faracat but.....

If the horse is footsore out of shoes, surely the horse is still footsore in shoes it's just the shoes masking it?

And if that is correct in what way are the shoes helping the horse? Is it not just the owner who feels better because the horse appears comfortable?

But don't barefooters just slap hoof boots on instead ? The answer is to increase workload and adjust the diet. A footy barefoot horse is uncomfortable in its free time too, not just when its being ridden unless its fortunate enough to be turned out on very forgiving ground.

 

[AngieandBen]

There must be acres of print now about the benefits of barefoot, the reasons for it. Equally the only benefit of shoes is that they hide what's really going on. Yet people still trot out the same stupid reasons for shoeing. Does nobody read and understand how feet work, why do we have to go over and over this stuff. Thick or what.

I'm trying to convince a good friend whose horse has laminitis/heel pain/soft tissue damage etc and whose horse is shod with heartbars filled with resign to go barefoot; After months of "nothing" seems to be working it does make me wonder why I bother, as her farrier keeps telling me, "whose the expert here, me or you"!!

 

[TwoStroke]

But horse with very flat feet say, could have the heels/bulbs touching the floor when they should be, so shoes would lift and support so the wouldn't be sore or masking the soreness as it should be eradicated with the shoes.

But the problem here is flat feet. Shoes won't solve flat feet - only diet and restoring natural function can do that. So shoes would be treating a symptom, but would allow the underlying issue to go untreated, and often worsen.

 

[Brightbay]

I was amazed my navicular laminitic completed a 3ft HT and came 3rd when not even a year previous I was sobbing into a pillow at the prospect of losing him. Please forgive me for being evangelical. I am just so happy and wanted to share it. Isn't that what forums are for?

This has made me smile, thank you for sharing your success story

I also use hoof boots. I work it in terms of time vs need. My horse does not need his hooves protected in any way while in his field, or while riding out on grass or tarmac. This consitutes at least 22 hours out of 24, and sometimes 24 hours out of 24. For the odd two hour hack when we might cross sharp gravel or large stones, he wears boots. The hoof boots do not in any way affect his hoof, and the wear and tear from the road and the field help stimulate growth/keep the hooves in trim.

In contrast, he would be wearing shoes 24 hours out of 24, but would only actually need them between 2 and 4 hours a week. The shoes - as is often pointed out by farriers - are a "necessary evil" - they don't improve feet, they simply enable them to cope with the four hours in a week when we travel over rougher surfaces.

In terms of cost/benefit, for me the boots win every time. I am certainly open to arguments that will show me that shoes are more cost effective and better for my horses feet, and looking forward to hearing them

 

[Cortez]

Sorry for the hijack, and not just a question for you Faracat but.....

If the horse is footsore out of shoes, surely the horse is still footsore in shoes it's just the shoes masking it?

And if that is correct in what way are the shoes helping the horse? Is it not just the owner who feels better because the horse appears comfortable?

Why are the shoes "masking" soreness? Are they not perhaps protecting the horse from what was making him sore? If, for instance, the reason the horse was in pain was because the frog, or toe, or sole, or whatever, was coming into contact with the ground and the shoe protected the area or raised it out of painful contact, then surely the horse was no longer in pain? How is that "masking"?

 

[AngieandBen]

But don't barefooters just slap hoof boots on instead ? The answer is to increase workload and adjust the diet. A footy barefoot horse is uncomfortable in its free time too, not just when its being ridden unless its fortunate enough to be turned out on very forgiving ground.

Not all, and most just use them if hacking on stoney ground, and just the fronts usually; If they are sound on the roads, why wouldn't they be sound on forgiving ground?

Nobody wants to ride a footy horse whether shod or not, we all want our horses to be comfortable.

So if a shod horse is footy without shoes aren't they footy with them?

 

[Cortez]

There must be acres of print now about the benefits of barefoot, the reasons for it. Equally the only benefit of shoes is that they hide what's really going on. Yet people still trot out the same stupid reasons for shoeing. Does nobody read and understand how feet work, why do we have to go over and over this stuff. Thick or what.

This is quite rude. And, whilst I have read quite a lot of the bumpf created by enthusiastic advocates, I have yet to read much truely scientific study on the subject.

 

[AngieandBen]

Why are the shoes "masking" soreness? Are they not perhaps protecting the horse from what was making him sore? If, for instance, the reason the horse was in pain was because the frog, or toe, or sole, or whatever, was coming into contact with the ground and the shoe protected the area or raised it out of painful contact, then surely the horse was no longer in pain? How is that "masking"?

Because the horse shouldn't be in pain to start with?!

 

[Arzada]

But don't barefooters just slap hoof boots on instead ? A footy barefoot horse is uncomfortable in its free time too, not just when its being ridden unless its fortunate enough to be turned out on very forgiving ground.

But is it? I'm not footy on carpet or tarmac but I would be over many other surfaces because my feet don't go out on them often enough so I protect my unconditioned feet by wearing shoes/boots. Pete Ramey has conditioned his feet so he can go over anything but I haven't the time or the inclination so I'm happy to be barefoot at home and wear footwear elsewhere.

How do I put in a smiley icon?

 

[quirky]

As the saying goes, all horses can become barefoot but not all owners can. Its certainly not for the quick fix, its a long term thing, depends if want/can fit it into your lifestyle.

This twaddle is propogated by barefoot people who want to set themselves apart and like to make us think they walk a higher ground than the rest of us shod horse owners

Twenty odd years back, I liveried at a riding school. Every last one of her 40+ horses were without shoes. Were they treated any different to those liveries who chose to have shoes? No. Same turn out paddocks, same forage/hard feed and probably more work than livery horses. And get this, they were all seen by the same farrier

I have had fully shod , fronts only and completely unshod horses. Have any of those had "special" treatment? No. Have any of them had any dire foot problems? No.

Maybe I have been lucky by not having to change my lifestyle to keep an unshod horse

 

[Cortez]

Because the horse shouldn't be in pain to start with?!

But that just isn't a sensible answer - some horses ARE IN PAIN; IT IS WHY THEY ARE LIMPING!

 

[Auslander]

There must be acres of print now about the benefits of barefoot, the reasons for it. Equally the only benefit of shoes is that they hide what's really going on. Yet people still trot out the same stupid reasons for shoeing. Does nobody read and understand how feet work, why do we have to go over and over this stuff. Thick or what.

Constructive as ever.

My horse has been unshod for a month now. He didn't wear hinds and the quality of his hind feet was far better than the fronts, so I took the opportunity, while he wasn't in much work to take the fronts off and see how he went. He was footy over sharp road planings for two days, and sound everywhere else - and now he is fine over every surface. He was already on a high fibre, molasses free diet, and I haven't supplemented him at this point (he's already on plenty for his joints!)

His front feet have improved already, so it obviously suits him to be au naturel. I'm happy to keep him unshod as long as he's comfortable. I will not become evangelical about it, or condemn anyone who keeps their horse shod. I'm all for doing what suits the individual.

 

[AngieandBen]

But that just isn't a sensible answer - some horses ARE IN PAIN; IT IS WHY THEY ARE LIMPING!

?! Wouldn't it be best to find out why they are in pain then?!

And since when did shoeing stop a horse from limping?

And don't use capitals unless you are shouting

 

[TwoStroke]

This is quite rude. And, whilst I have read quite a lot of the bumpf created by enthusiastic advocates, I have yet to read much truely scientific study on the subject.

As opposed to all the scientific evidence on the subject of shoeing? Pmsl!

 

[AngieandBen]

This twaddle is propogated by barefoot people who want to set themselves apart and like to make us think they walk a higher ground than the rest of us shod horse owners

Twenty odd years back, I liveried at a riding school. Every last one of her 40+ horses were without shoes. Were they treated any different to those liveries who chose to have shoes? No. Same turn out paddocks, same forage/hard feed and probably more work than livery horses. And get this, they were all seen by the same farrier

I have had fully shod , fronts only and completely unshod horses. Have any of those had "special" treatment? No. Have any of them had any dire foot problems? No.

Maybe I have been lucky by not having to change my lifestyle to keep an unshod horse

Well maybe you have

 

[Pale Rider]

Cortez, why do you constantly drone on about shoes, they don't cure anything, mask a whole load of issues and make things far worse in the long run.
Why wouldn't you want to put things right.
Why would you advocate such a detrimental short cut.

 

[CBFan]

I've been here (on this forum) a very long time. That doesn't make me special, or my opinion especially valuable, but it does mean that I have seen some trends and changes over the years.

The one that is currently troubling me a little is the whole barefoot thing; hardly a day passes without some poor owner seeking reassurance about the right diet, whether their 'transitioning' is going correctly, where to source the right hoof boots, how to locate the right trimmer. I say 'poor owner', the reality of course is poor horse, those horses that had been perfectly happy for years working in shoes whose owners have decided that being unshod is somehow preferable.

I'm not against unshod horses, if a horse can work happily without shoes I'm all for it, I have unshod horses myself, and one with just fronts and just one with a full set of shoes (believe me, he wouldn't cope at all without them)

However, if your horse being unshod (or barefoot if that is what you want to call it) means that you have to be mail ordering special minerals to keep them comfortable, ordering in hoof boots, agonising over their diet and lfestyle.....you have to ask yourself whether you are actually doing the right thing and whether it wouldn't be kinder to just nail a set of shoes on...

wouldn't you?

I have highlighted two of your points above which I feel can be looked at from a different perspective. The first, I actually see as someone trying to EDUCATE themselves on how to let their horse lead a healthier lifestyle.

The second, regarding feeding - I would much rather someone ordered special minerals (i.e. a bespoke diet for their horse) off the internet than just buing mass produced / marketed / pushed by 'feeding expert' sales reps feed products from the feed store because they are the latest 'in' feed to give poor doer / laminitic / superdooper competition ponies which in reality only ever do 2 hours hard work a week...

It all comes down to education I guess and my experience of the shoeless / barefoot way has been so enlightening it makes me shudder to think of the pain I could have inadvertantly inflicted on my sugar sensitive horse by the simple act of putting shoes on him...

 

[FabioandFreddy]

Aren't some horses footsore though purely from being barefoot? No underlying issue? I'm not saying all but i dare bet there are some!

I also had our barefoot horse done by our normal farrier. They train for far longer than a lot of barefoot trimmers so i would rather trust them with my horses hooves.

 

[tallyho!]

This twaddle is propogated by barefoot people who want to set themselves apart and like to make us think they walk a higher ground than the rest of us shod horse owners

Twenty odd years back, I liveried at a riding school. Every last one of her 40+ horses were without shoes. Were they treated any different to those liveries who chose to have shoes? No. Same turn out paddocks, same forage/hard feed and probably more work than livery horses. And get this, they were all seen by the same farrier

I have had fully shod , fronts only and completely unshod horses. Have any of those had "special" treatment? No. Have any of them had any dire foot problems? No.

Maybe I have been lucky by not having to change my lifestyle to keep an unshod horse

You could say that you are setting yourself apart from the many that don't find it as easy as you do. Aren't you the one being evangelical about the management of your horses? Yet see that it's ok to belittle others whilst at the same time lording it over everyone about how wonderful things are for you? Not just you but the unshod mafia that see fit to bash barefooters. Saying things like we walk a higher ground. Christ what set of glasses do you wear to see people in this way? Chip on shoulder much?

Well excuse me for not being around 40 years ago to witness amazing marvels of unshod horse keeping. What a shame I have to watch my horse struggle in shoes for years while my experts tell me this needs doing and he needs these drugs and I need to pay £6000 so he can live. All I needed to do was be around back in the day when unshod was what people did. It's such a shame I did not know you quirky. Could have saved myself a fortune!

What a fool i must be.

 

[TwoStroke]

Aren't some horses footsore though purely from being barefoot? No underlying issue? I'm not saying all but i dare bet there are some!

I also had our barefoot horse done by our normal farrier. They train for far longer than a lot of barefoot trimmers so i would rather trust them with my horses hooves.

No, of course not . Soreness is always caused by something. Sometimes the specific cause/trigger can't be isolated, or is too difficult to control (so the owner should shoe), but there is a cause.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Not all, and most just use them if hacking on stoney ground, and just the fronts usually; If they are sound on the roads, why wouldn't they be sound on forgiving ground?

Nobody wants to ride a footy horse whether shod or not, we all want our horses to be comfortable.

So if a shod horse is footy without shoes aren't they footy with them?

Yes, some use them for stoney ground, but often I see them used routinely for roadwork. Why would an unshod, well managed horse be footy on stony ground unless they'd been off work for some reason ?
Mine are happy on all terrain, only had one that had to have fronts on because her feet wore down. Yes, I know barefooters say this is impossible but as she didn't have the same environment as the much revered Mustang travelling a 100 miles to watering holes she was at a disadvantage.

 

[FabioandFreddy]

No, of course not . Soreness is always caused by something. Sometimes the specific cause/trigger can't be isolated, or is too difficult to control (so the owner should shoe), but there is a cause.

Like stoney ground?!

 

[quirky]

You could say that you are setting yourself apart from the many that don't find it as easy as you do. Aren't you the one being evangelical about the management of your horses? Yet see that it's ok to belittle others whilst at the same time lording it over everyone about how wonderful things are for you? Not just you but the unshod mafia that see fit to bash barefooters.

Well excuse me for not being around 40 years ago to witness amazing marvels of unshod horse keeping. What a shame I have to watch my horse struggle in shoes for years while my experts tell me this needs doing and he needs these drugs and I need to pay £6000 so he can live. All I needed to do was be around back in the day when unshod was what people did. It's such a shame I did not know you quirky. Could have saved myself a fortune!

What a fool i must be.

Nope, I'm not being evangelical at all about my horses management.
I don't mean to belittle, on the contrary, it is the barefoot mob who belittle shod owners by telling them they can't/won't look after their horses properly.
I'm failing to see how I could've saved you money , I was under the impression that these highly trained (in 3 weeks ) barefoot pods didn't charge much.

Now, if you'd like to know what all the RS ponies were fed on, I'd be more than happy to tell you BUT I know the barefoot mafia's toes would curl if they knew

 

[MerrySherryRider]

This twaddle is propogated by barefoot people who want to set themselves apart and like to make us think they walk a higher ground than the rest of us shod horse owners

Twenty odd years back, I liveried at a riding school. Every last one of her 40+ horses were without shoes. Were they treated any different to those liveries who chose to have shoes? No. Same turn out paddocks, same forage/hard feed and probably more work than livery horses. And get this, they were all seen by the same farrier

I have had fully shod , fronts only and completely unshod horses. Have any of those had "special" treatment? No. Have any of them had any dire foot problems? No.

Maybe I have been lucky by not having to change my lifestyle to keep an unshod horse

Excellent post and very much my experience.

 

[nikCscott]

I thought twice about reading thread as new what it would be like :roll eyes:

Can i say 1st- YAY bloody YAY to bring back the term "unshod" the "other" makes my skin crawl!

I have 1x unshod constantly hacking around the lanes / jumping and Pony club- perfectly happy and can't see ever having to shoe.

WB however is very short coupled so pulls shoes regularly he also has a little foot (hence the nickname Nemo) which is the shoe comes off there he is incredibly sore, I have spoken to my farrier (who has improved his feet from a complete mess to great hooves) and also a barefoot guy to see if removing the shoes would be beneficial i.e. stop him pulling them off and both said not to- his sole was too thin and the pigeon toe on his small foot meant that it wasn't suitable for him. He is double clipped all around and like others here I can spot and unbalanced foot a mile off now through what I have learnt over the passed 18 months. I wish he could be unshod then I could afford the best tack and rugs for him!

Should add I have no school and only lanes to hack on only get on a surface when i compete.

 

[TwoStroke]

Like stoney ground?!

Er no. A strong, healthy, well conditioned foot would not struggle with stoney ground. My youngster doesn't struggle, and he even has some pathologies. Problems with stones are usually due to inadequate sole depth and/or inflammation of the sole corium.

 

[rhino]

Does nobody read and understand how feet work, why do we have to go over and over this stuff. Thick or what.

Aren't you the one being evangelical about the management of your horses? Yet see that it's ok to belittle others whilst at the same time lording it over everyone about how wonderful things are for you? Not just you but the unshod mafia that see fit to bash barefooters. Saying things like we walk a higher ground. Christ what set of glasses do you wear to see people in this way? Chip on shoulder much?

There we go; two very good reasons why a lot of people are fed up of the barefoot stuff on here. Just rude, and the same attitude underpins many of the barefoot threads, much to the detriment of the people who are actually trying to help people.

 

[[59851]]

Totally agree with OP. I have one horse shod - he needs it and is uncomfortable without especially on our flinty tracks and one who is unshod. The unshod one has not long been broken and is currently doing fine despite not being on any special food or supplements, in fact at the moment he is on nothing but good grass!! If he needs shoes in the future he will get them. I am not going to be bullied into keeping him barefoot, I bought him for a job and if he needs shoes to do that job so be it.

 

[tallyho!]

Nope, I'm not being evangelical at all about my horses management.
I don't mean to belittle, on the contrary, it is the barefoot mob who belittle shod owners by telling them they can't/won't look after their horses properly.
I'm failing to see how I could've saved you money , I was under the impression that these highly trained (in 3 weeks ) barefoot pods didn't charge much.

Now, if you'd like to know what all the RS ponies were fed on, I'd be more than happy to tell you BUT I know the barefoot mafia's toes would curl if they knew

Save money on shoes.

Never mind.

I don't need to know ponies diets. I seem to have mine on a fairly basic diet and they are doing well.

No thanks to the moaners like you but more thanks to the people who bothered to reply to my posts about my barefoot transition. The barefooters helped me. Those who were against it, just ridiculed me. Just like you are doing now, further segregating yourself form any meaningful input that offers any kind of help because you don't want to be seen to be part of barefoot. It sounds like you have plenty of knowledge but rather than offer some, you would rather ridicule me for having a barefoot horse because you believe we are all idiots who serve to make other people feel stupid for shoeing.

I do care though because I don't like to see helpful people being called names just for believing in something.