Timelyattraction
Well-Known Member
She is well bred but as others have said would you want to breed from a horse who isn’t rideable herself? Could it be passed on to her offspring?
Thoughts/ ideas? Are some horses just unrideable?
- Thread starter Timelyattraction
- Start date
Timelyattraction
Well-Known Member
Sorry yes i meant probably not feed related*
Littlebear
Well-Known Member
Could you book in with someone like Jason Webb? I know its a wait but maybe a break for the horse while you wait and a restart with someone like him or similar is worth a try?
Timelyattraction
Well-Known Member
No not had that done. What could that potentially show? Sorry had no experience with that before.
Timelyattraction
Well-Known Member
She is insured but only for 3k which i have nearly already used 50% of on the vet work up and ulcer treatment. I keep my horses at home but already have my other big horse who is retired from arthritis and to be honest i cant sfford to have two field ornaments and then purchase another riding horse. I would rather try and get this mare right as she is nice natured and well bred for the job but i am already 10K in on her and realistically thinking how much more money can i throw at this horse for it just to be unrideable?
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I would start with someone who can assess her physically but more holistically than a vet, my recommendation would be Tom Beech, The Osteopathic Vet. He's much cheaper than most vet services (eg xrays, lameness workups) though can refer for them of course, but more expensive than a bodyworker. You may then move onto the sort of behavioural approach others are suggesting.
The Equibiome test may help too, it analyses the hind gut and can pick up intestinal issues but much much more than that too.
The Equibiome test may help too, it analyses the hind gut and can pick up intestinal issues but much much more than that too.
TPO
🤠🏴
Easy to say when it's not my horse or me in this position but I'd have a very frank talk with your vet/second opinion vet. Explain that you have £X left on insurance and discuss the best way to spend thst money to try to get a diagnosis. The hope would be that if something was found there would be enough left for any treatment required.
I've been where you are in so far as I had two hopeless vet practices, one who's lies and subsequent cover up started the whole thing, and drained all of the insurance money. When I found my current practice it was all out of my pocket. I stopped counting when I got to 36k (over 6yrs tbf and horse was a £750 ex racer (that original vet practice vet checked for me ?)) and he didnt manage to maintain a rideable soundness. He was happy in himself and while it was a chronic condition he didn't have any daily discomfort so I was in the fortunate position to keep him as an expensive field ornament.
Another long story but my mum's horse had to be pts so I decided to let mine go at thr same time. He was well at thst point but other niggles were starting to appear and he hadn't come out of winter as well as was normal for him, by no means bad but just the start of a slippery slope. So yeah I decided to let him go because he had been as well as he was ever going to be and I could forsee a decline as he aged. What I didn't expect after pts was the massive relief and weight lifted off my shoulders thst I didn't know I'd been carrying. Turns out it's pretty mentally and physically exhausting caring for a horse with issues thst can't be diagnosed and where every day you are wondering how they will be and if anything has reoccurred. Basically trying to say I get where you are coming from about the prospect of keeping another field ornament and there is no shame in considering other options if it came to that but hopefully it won't.
tristar
Well-Known Member
certainly would not be breeding from her, but it has to be a saint for me to breed from it
also once a horse learns to get the rider off, who knows
not an easy situation, you have my sympathy
also once a horse learns to get the rider off, who knows
not an easy situation, you have my sympathy
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I think Id try one of those mannequins (weighted so feels like a rider weight), put her on the lunge in a safe enclosed area and let her buck it out. Id just do that every single day for weeks, or as long as it takes for her to accept it and realise nothing bad is happening? She's learnt she can get you off now and I think thats a hard habit to break, this way she can no longer achieve that. I would first of all get a second vet opinion and video her doing it to show them - just to absolutely rule out anything untoward. Also a chiro / osteo person to triple check her back etc. Sounds silly but does her saddle fit? Has it been the same one used all throughout? If so, Id probably try a different one - again you never know...
My best horse was one who, as a 4yo (backed) was so cold backed he would regulaly explode when I got on. I'd just get back on (joys of being in my late teens!) and he was fine after it each time. I got thrown off a LOT in the first year I had him, but he eventually stopped doing it and turned into my one in a million competition horse.
My best horse was one who, as a 4yo (backed) was so cold backed he would regulaly explode when I got on. I'd just get back on (joys of being in my late teens!) and he was fine after it each time. I got thrown off a LOT in the first year I had him, but he eventually stopped doing it and turned into my one in a million competition horse.
Timelyattraction
Well-Known Member
I was thinking of doing that but didnt want to completely freak her out. Was hoping to hear it suggested a few times tbh ?she has had various saddles on and done it with all saddlles. The saddle i am now using was fitted the other day by the saddler and tbh was a pretty good fit didnt need adjusting just needed a riser using to lift it at the front but that is all. I was going to invest in a new saddle originally but as i cant ride her whats the point as the saddle isnt the thing causing the issue. She has also had a body worker.
i used to be like that in my teens but i now have 2 very young children and can’t afford to break myself ?
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
This worries me a little, well quite a bit really. The professional had her 12 weeks and sent her back after 3 months able to be got on a waked around the yard? That is not a broken horse to me, it is barely backed, it sounds like the trainer had little more success than you had yourself. But at least they did alert you to the possibility there was something else going on with her.
If ulcers were found I would be worrying about any underlying cause, other than highly strung anxiety. If it is purely a nervous temperament issue have you tried offering a very small feed 20 minutes to half an hour before riding her. Even if she is not currently showing ulcers after the treatment, it could well be her stomach is still creating excessive acid that splashes around in the stomach when ridden or even ground worked. That can be extremely painful for a horse and might be worth trying to get some food lining her stomach before asking her to do any work of any kind, even low key stuff.
Sorry probably not a lot of help, but might be worth a try. Please do be careful and mind yourself though.
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
Friend had a gelding like this who eventually consented to be ridden in company. Five years down the line she decided to have a little outing alone 'just to see.' She ended up in hospital with multiple injuries, and almost died. Please be careful. Sometimes the challenge is not worth it.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Two horses I know
First , home bred very sweet clever all the starting work a breeze , getting on the same, first step straight up and over backwards every one was shocked .
Regrouped got her ridden away but there was something .
Gave a break started very cautiously but there was something a reluctance to go down slopes she could not shorten her stride it’s long story lots of ins and outs lots of vet stuff done eventually she was PTS and the vet who part owned the mare she was out of did a pm she had the most appalling spinal malformation this was nearly thirty years ago before you X-ray a spine and kissing spines was not a thing .
Second was well bred event type always unpredictable difficult to get ridden away etc etc periods of being sharp but normal where dotted with extremely dangerous outbursts of explosive behaviour . This culinmated in the horse flipping backwards over a hedge and falling a considerable distance into the field below the road the rider was very bashed up but lucky to get away with that .
Horse was PTS and pmed it had a tumour in the brain .
and another home bred solid and sweet was backed easily but when ridden away things got difficult turned out to have a floating cataract.
First , home bred very sweet clever all the starting work a breeze , getting on the same, first step straight up and over backwards every one was shocked .
Regrouped got her ridden away but there was something .
Gave a break started very cautiously but there was something a reluctance to go down slopes she could not shorten her stride it’s long story lots of ins and outs lots of vet stuff done eventually she was PTS and the vet who part owned the mare she was out of did a pm she had the most appalling spinal malformation this was nearly thirty years ago before you X-ray a spine and kissing spines was not a thing .
Second was well bred event type always unpredictable difficult to get ridden away etc etc periods of being sharp but normal where dotted with extremely dangerous outbursts of explosive behaviour . This culinmated in the horse flipping backwards over a hedge and falling a considerable distance into the field below the road the rider was very bashed up but lucky to get away with that .
Horse was PTS and pmed it had a tumour in the brain .
and another home bred solid and sweet was backed easily but when ridden away things got difficult turned out to have a floating cataract.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
I always think its physical if you are experienced in a system with backing and the horse is being atypical and is a sweet horse on the ground. Depends how far you are willing to go. Depends how much money the horse owes you and if you want to cut your losses.
Illtellyoulater
Well-Known Member
I had a filly we couldn’t back, and one of her ovaries was enlarged
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I have only ever failed to break two horses in my career (out of hundreds). One had a broken neck, the other a brain tumour.
Illtellyoulater
Well-Known Member
same, we treated the ovary one, but the other two, one had malformed sacroiliac, the other the worst wobbler I ever met
nikkimariet
Well-Known Member
Yes, but only because there’s something wrong with them imho. And that does include them being wired wrong in the head, which is harder to identify and manage.
I had Nova scrutinised by the vets due to his behaviour. He never scared me but there just wasn’t a rhyme or reason or even a pattern to it. But without the pressure of training (to GP) he’s 150% in his new home and they love him.
I had Nova scrutinised by the vets due to his behaviour. He never scared me but there just wasn’t a rhyme or reason or even a pattern to it. But without the pressure of training (to GP) he’s 150% in his new home and they love him.
SEL
Well-Known Member
Friend had a beautifully bred black warmblood that they struggled with. A pro got it going under saddle but it still decked them at home. A vet saw the horse roll and scramble up in the field and immediately said Wobblers. No one had picked up on anything in normal lameness work up (had lovely floaty trot).
You get some challenging ones popping up in the PSSM forums which must be in a lot of pain. The last thing I'd want with a sore back is to carry a human so I understand that response.
I think you can keep going for a lot of time and spend a lot of money on some horses. I've thrown a huge amount at my Appy (& we did the Tom Beech, Rob Jackson etc etc visits) but she's just not massively comfortable with a rider. Muscles or something else I don't know and I've stopped looking - I've got room for a pet.
You get some challenging ones popping up in the PSSM forums which must be in a lot of pain. The last thing I'd want with a sore back is to carry a human so I understand that response.
I think you can keep going for a lot of time and spend a lot of money on some horses. I've thrown a huge amount at my Appy (& we did the Tom Beech, Rob Jackson etc etc visits) but she's just not massively comfortable with a rider. Muscles or something else I don't know and I've stopped looking - I've got room for a pet.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Honestly, what do you have to lose with regard to trying the mannequin method? Not sure where else you can go from here, you tried professional although Id be pretty shocked she was there that long and didnt seem to progress at all. See how you go x
whizzer
Well-Known Member
I bought a mare from her breeders as unbacked. Went to a pro for backing but clearly wasn't happy right from the start,had vet work up who found some physical issues but also thought it had a behavioural element. Got her referred to Newmarket,had full work up & there was a number of small things that it seemed could be causing the ridden issues. Horse had everything thrown at her,time off,physios,made to measure saddle,sent off to another yard who had a good reputation for rehabbing & backing difficult horses. Initially went well, but after a break she went back & was worse than ever. Had ovaries scanned-found nothing amiss ,tried regumate but no improvement. The vet that scanned her gave her a thorough check over & said in his opinion she was sound & her back was comfortable(one issue had been minor kissing spines & ligament damage).
By this point I'd owned the horse for 2 years,spent thousands & thousands of pounds on it & never once as much as sat on her!
I decided then that enough was enough,either she just couldn't physically cope with the light work she was being asked to do or it was behavioural.
By this point I'd owned the horse for 2 years,spent thousands & thousands of pounds on it & never once as much as sat on her!
I decided then that enough was enough,either she just couldn't physically cope with the light work she was being asked to do or it was behavioural.
maya2008
Well-Known Member
If they are unrideable from the start, there is something physically wrong somewhere. There was a thread a year or so ago with similar issues - after huge amounts of money, more than one different trainer etc - a vet found the problem. A friend of mine had similar issues - hers had fractured a bone in one hoof. Hers is now rideable after extensive treatment, but was dangerous before the problem was found.
If it was my horse, I would cut my losses at this point and stop spending money on a horse that, even if the problem is found, is probably not rideable. If I had endless money and time, I would systematically check for every possible problem.
If it was my horse, I would cut my losses at this point and stop spending money on a horse that, even if the problem is found, is probably not rideable. If I had endless money and time, I would systematically check for every possible problem.