Thoughts on BD bringing in 20% rider weight guidance?

[Ali27]

I’m not sure that it’s worth it! It theoretically means that a nearly 16 stone person could ride a 500kg horse! My mare is 510kg and my weight had crept up to 68kg earlier in the year so 10 stone 10 and now I’ve dropped down to 58 kg (9stone 4) and she is definitely much happier! I wouldn’t want anyone heavier than 10 stone to ride her! I think it should potentially be at least 15%!

 

[oldie48]

I think tack is normally included in the calculation but I agree I also think the 20% weight is a bit high and would think 15% more appropriate but it does to some extent depend on the conformation of the horse, it's fitness and if it's at an ideal weight rather than fat.

 

[ponynutz]

I agree with you because dressage is demanding on a horse. I'm a bit too heavy for my girl than I'd like to be but we only hack at walk, trot, and occasionally canter so she's never seemed to have an issue with it.

However, BD cannot be seen to be what some might see as 'overly harsh' on people's weight given the current climate we're in (especially in the media and online) and so by them following the guidelines (which is generally 20% of horses' bodyweight) they have 'fact' behind them if there's any backlash against their decision which I imagine there might be.

It's a step in the right direction though!

 

[SEL]

I thought step in the right direction too - whilst thinking 80kg is far too much for my ponies

 

[scats]

I would far prefer it at 15%. Never in a million years would I ask my 500kg mare to carry nearly 16 stone. Im just under 9stone so I estimate with clothes, boots, hat and saddle, she’s carrying nearer 10stone. The absolute most I would expect her to carry would be 11stone.

 

[SantaVera]

20percent includes the saddle and the rider dressed to ride

 

[SantaVera]

C

I would far prefer it at 15%. Never in a million years would I ask my 500kg mare to carry nearly 16 stone. Im just under 9stone so I estimate with clothes, boots, hat and saddle, she’s carrying nearer 10stone. The absolute most I would expect her to carry would be 11stone.

Completely agree with this

 

[eahotson]

How are you going to police it?

 

[JFTDWS]

Never in a million years would I ask my 500kg mare to carry nearly 16 stone.

Both my 14,2 500kg ponies have carried 16 stone (inc tack) comfortably for occasional schooling. I don't believe either of them have been harmed by that experience, because they're pretty well built for the job and were fit and strong at the time. Plenty of similar weight ponies I wouldn't even consider it with - it's a very "how long is a piece of string" question.

I don't consider bimbling around an intro / prelim test to be particularly arduous for a horse. Higher level dressage is a different matter, but I'd imagine most riders pushing 20% will be at the lower levels (no doubt with some exceptions).

 

[Tiddlypom]

*Reminder*

Average tack and rider clothing adds 2.5 stone to rider's naked weight, and has to be included in any % rider/horse weight calculation.

I'm in favour of a 15% limit. I self impose this on myself. I'm a beggar for allowing my weight to yo yo, but the welfare of my horse is what gets me back on track. Currently comfortably below 15%, but I've been well over (but then didn't ride).

 

[Ali27]

*Reminder*

Average tack and rider clothing adds 2.5 stone to rider's naked weight, and has to be included in any % rider/horse weight calculation.

I'm in favour of a 15% limit. I self impose this on myself. I'm a beggar for allowing my weight to yo yo, but the welfare of my horse is what gets me back on track. Currently comfortably below 15%, but I've been well over (but then didn't ride).

Yep, tack and riding gear definitely must weigh a bit!
Just weighed myself with my Equipe saddle and it’s 71kg! ? So add another couple of kg with me wearing boots and a helmet! Pretty shocking in how much weight tack adds?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Yep, tack and riding gear definitely must weigh a bit! I’ve never weighed myself in my riding stuff with saddle but will do that tomorrow?

I'd weighed myself plus clothing and gear to get the 2.5 stone, but actually it turns out to be a recognised average weight. My saddle fitter has been running a scheme in which riders are voluntarily weighed at the saddle fitting session, and advice given, but I was on the case (shift lardy @rse) before that .

 

[LEC]

At some point they will need to actually enforce this rule as the welfare evidence on horses carrying too much weight is too strong.

 

[Winters100]

Seems huge to me, on this basis one of mine could carry almost 100kg!!!! I would not dream of asking him to carry anything close to this,

 

[Ali27]

At some point they will need to actually enforce this rule as the welfare evidence on horses carrying too much weight is too strong.

I really hope so!

 

[Ali27]

How are you going to police it?

That’s the problem! ? I wish riders would take some responsibility! I knew when I started piling on the pounds and then did something about it!

 

[TPO]

It's a step in the right direction. BD should be commended for that.

Clearly a lot of people can't police themselves and their want to ride is their no.1 priority over animal welfare.

Hopefully this ruling will be a wake up call and perhaps empower others (e.g. trainers, judges (outwith BD), saddle fitters, physios and vets) to be able to raise concerns to clients without everything automatically being dismissed as "fat shaming" or, randomly, jealousy?

There was a study on Equitopia with results showing that the force on a horse in trot is 2x the rider's weight and canter is 2.5st. On the last weight thread that happened on here >18st was being claimed to be OK. 18st is excessive on its own never mind trot (36st) or canter (45st) and shudder to think about jumping.

 

[Ali27]

Both my 14,2 500kg ponies have carried 16 stone (inc tack) comfortably for occasional schooling. I don't believe either of them have been harmed by that experience, because they're pretty well built for the job and were fit and strong at the time. Plenty of similar weight ponies I wouldn't even consider it with - it's a very "how long is a piece of string" question.

I don't consider bimbling around an intro / prelim test to be particularly arduous for a horse. Higher level dressage is a different matter, but I'd imagine most riders pushing 20% will be at the lower levels (no doubt with some exceptions).

Mine is a 14.2 Irish cob x Connie who is 510 kg and very fit and healthy! No way would I put someone who is 16 stone on her! I bet she would carry on and do it because she is such a willing mare but I just wouldn’t! She is 20 now and I’ve had her since she was 6 and I would like to think that the reason she is still so fit and healthy is that I’ve looked after her carefully and she’s only ever been ridden by riders that aren’t too heavy for her and within the 15% threshold including tack etc!

 

[SafeInSage]

Agree that it should be 15%. At the end of the day, this isn’t fat shaming, it’s animal welfare. No one is saying you can’t enjoy horses if you are considerably overweight, but you shouldn’t be riding if you are too large for a horse. Plenty of other disciplines for those unable to ride.

 

[JFTDWS]

Mine is a 14.2 Irish cob x Connie who is 510 kg and very fit and healthy! No way would I put someone who is 16 stone on her! I bet she would carry on and do it because she is such a willing mare but I just wouldn’t! She is 20 now and I’ve had her since she was 6 and I would like to think that the reason she is still so fit and healthy is that I’ve looked after her carefully and she’s only ever been ridden by riders that aren’t too heavy for her and within the 15% threshold including tack etc!

And mine are highlands so very different conformationally to yours - neither cobs nor connies are particularly suited as weight carriers. I'm willing to bet there are quite a lot of highlands carrying those sorts of weights happily into later life. I have no idea what sort of weight would be appropriate for your mare, but I do know that I've never seen either of mine go better than when ridden by that particular rider (male, classical dressage trainer, c 14 st, very fit and balanced).

Fwiw, I think it's quite an arrogant assumption that your horse has stayed healthy to 20 because of the care you've taken. I've known horses sound into their 30s despite hammering on roads, heavy riders and all sorts of less than ideal management, while others break at a young age, despite all the care in the world. It's luck, genetics, a bit of care and a lot more luck that keeps horses healthy into old age.

 

[ycbm]

It's a great start that they are proposing a weight limit at all. I hope in quite a short time to see it dropped to 15%, which is my own personal limit for my horses.
.

 

[mariew]

I don't know. Will it basically lead to people feeling justified or approved to tell others they are fat? How is it going to be policed, weigh horse, weigh human then calculate? Also how do you take men's weight into consideration, they are generally heavier.

Also some breeds can carry heavier - icelandics? Spanish horses? Some natives?

It is too much hammer to smash an egg for me. So many questions.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How do you take men's weight into consideration? Erm, they get on the scales and get weighed just like women do ?‍.

I'm tall and although I'm female, I have a sturdy blokish rugby player's build. I have to work at keeping my weight within acceptable parameters if I want to ride. If I wanted to enjoy my horses another way without sitting on them, then my weight would not be an issue.

ETA Recently I was treated by my osteo, and was talking about needing to keep my weight on track if I want to ride. Her husband is an equine osteo. She told me that all too often he comes home and says there's nothing wrong with the horse he's seen except that it has to carry too heavy a rider.

 

[Ossy2]

I don’t understand how they will police it and enforce it? Will they ask people to be weighed at shows?? Weigh your horse?

That said I’m pleased they are going in that direction. Tin hat on I’m sick of seeing photos on social media of severely overweight people on horses totally unsuitable and when queried it’s all fine because “the horse wants for nothing, we’ll cared for and sees the physio regularly ect ect”

 

[Dexter]

On the last weight thread that happened on here >18st was being claimed to be OK. 18st is excessive on its own never mind trot (36st) or canter (45st) and shudder to think about jumping.

It was 18 stone without tack, so actually in excess of 20stone.

I suspect riders like this have brought this on. I know someone who judged them and was deeply uncomfortable but didn't feel that they could say anything.

Edited, as I cant show you the insta page as she blocked me, but look up blog of a cob, its horrifying. She has a very young connie type pony she rides and it was that one that caused the judge I know to raise it with BD. Its a welfare issue as far as I am concerned.

 

[Goldenstar]

How are you going to police it?

I don’t understand how they will police it and enforce it? Will they ask people to be weighed at shows?? Weigh your horse?

That said I’m pleased they are going in that direction. Tin hat on I’m sick of seeing photos on social media of severely overweight people on horses totally unsuitable and when queried it’s all fine because “the horse wants for nothing, we’ll cared for and sees the physio regularly ect ect”

I will take a guess they won’t police it .

 

[SEL]

It might self police in that those drastically over weight no longer do BD competitions.

I guess it also gives the judge somewhere to go if they feel very uncomfortable with a horse / rider combo. They can stop for lameness, blood etc so excessive rider weight can be added to that. I suspect the borderline riders will be ok but that rider in the blog mentioned above is shocking.

 

[JFTDWS]

Edited, as I cant show you the insta page as she blocked me, but look up blog of a cob, its horrifying. She has a very young connie type pony she rides and it was that one that caused the judge I know to raise it with BD. Its a welfare issue as far as I am concerned.

It's probably important to be clear that you mean (I hope) blog.of.a.cob, as there's another blog of cob on IG who has what looks to be a young connie type, for whom that rider appears to be appropriately sized.

I can't imagine the former will be anywhere near meeting the 20% guideline for her horses, and I would certainly hope that BD will use the rule to pull up a combination like that.

 

[Peglo]

I’m slim but heavier than I look. I’m about 9-9/12 stone (I don’t weigh myself personally but weighed myself with my tack) and other than my dressage judge, everyone keeps telling me I don’t need to watch my weight.

I’m just under the 15% with my tack so I don’t want to be any heavier.

I think it’s in the right direction but I also wouldn’t put 20% on my 14.2.

 

[TPO]

Just off the back of this thread and some posts about a different "influencer".

It might not be a bad thing to introduce some body condition scoring rules for horses alongside the rider's weight.

E.g. if the horse is obese it'll weigh more and to some people that increases the 15/20% parameters.

If J. Bloggs is a tad overweight but rocks up with a "should be 550kg" 750kg horse the maths would have them ticking the boxes...