Thoughts on Keeping Horses in?

Well I am lucky in that my stable is a mobile one in his field so I can open the door on any time of year and he can go out safely. My lad tolerates the routine of being in at night (for lami prevention purposes) but he would not cope being stabled full time for long periods. They are all different I guess and it depends on your set up.
 
As pottamus says really it is horses for courses. My two grown up neds wouldn't mind staying in as long as they had hay and I have post and rail yards in front of my stables and the stable doors are never shut, so they are in or out as they please. My youngster though does like to kick up his toes and I prefer him to be out. When he was on box rest (finished at Christmas) in spite of every care he got miserable, his coat was dull and he lost all his muscle. Within a week of even limited turnout he was bright eyed and bushy tailed again.
 
Mine and my liveries go out every day, no matter what. The only reason they would need to come in early is if the hounds are coming across my land. Even then, they are turned out from 5am til 11am, so they still get time in the field.

If I couldn't offer turnout year round, I wouldn't have a yard. I am in one of the areas most affected by the flooding - very near Badminton - and we have spent a lot of the winter unable to get down the drive due to flooding. Two of my fields had lakes in them, but the horses waded through them to get to the grass at the other side. I don't mind how trashed my winter grazing gets - it will recover with rest over the summer.
 
Jools1234 said:
long term everyone has a choice regarding turn out, its not always easy to accommodate it though, i would move yards or rent a field on a temporary basis in order to keep mine out. if my only option was to stable 24/7/52 then i would not have horses.
i do realise that some horses seem to like being in and i truly believe it its abnormal behaviour (like a dog that only wants to stay indoors) that needs addressing and it does take lots of effort sometimes
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This. IMO people who have no turnout shouldn't have horses. A person wouldn't (I hope) get a dog if they were never able to let it outside would they, so I see a horse no different! I would love a dog but won't get one because I might be working all day in which case it'd be cooped up in the house for hours which is no life. SAME THING! Those who say their horses prefer to be in (and yes my new horse was like this, but 4/5 months on he likes being outside - you just have to do it gradually like any change in lifestyle), I dont believe that at all.
 
How I would love my horses to have all day turnout. Sadly there are no yards near me that offer it (and I'm talking about a half hour drive) So my 2 are in for the winter. It's not ideal and I don't like it but they cope and so do we. We have a small turnout paddock, a menage and lots of hacking. They are ridden most days and on the odd day that we don't they are turned out or lunged. They have ad lib hay, clean water and company. Its a busy livery yard so there is always someone about to check on them. I totally agree its not the perfect scenario but then life isn't perfect, until it is I'll keep doing the lottery!
 
Mine live out 24/7 unshod and happy I am not sure how well they would take to being in as the young ones have lived out all their lives. They only use the field shelter in high summer I have never seen one in there in winter unless the hay is in there.
The old mare hates being in she will given the chance escape or jump the door now. She will tolerate a few hours over night but will soon get fed up and bargey. She is never bargey unless confined to a stable
Every horse is different but every horse needs to move around whether it be in a field or a school. Horse walkers are to my mind the invention of the devil as the horse is still confined and forced to move where you want it to at the speed you want it to not free choice and ambling or snoozing in the sun
 
AdorableAlice said:
Is that the case even when the ground is poached and frozen solid, or are you fortunate enough to have lots of well drained fresh ground.
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Yes its the case,

they went out today as normal
and our fields have only ever once been so bare we thought about hay since we brought the place in 1996 and that was a few years back when we had the heatwave.

And the top field is still easy enough for the to walk on its only by the gates its not they just take their time when crossing this small area.
 
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Ludoctro said:
Also when you have deep poached fields that freezing leaving large ruts, your asking for bust tendons. I guess those jumping up and down about they must be out maybe a injury is not as important me for one wants and needs my horse sound as a pound. If these means he staying in due to the big freeze so be it. He will have then will go out as soon as its safe to do so. Life is tough sometimes.
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^^ seconded. I think many of the comments are coming from owners with certain types of horses and ponies that are well adapted to living out in rough conditions and from owners who have not witnessed a severe equine injury or dealt with the end result.

The horses in the best position to cope with the current conditions are those that live out full time. They adapt as the weather changes around them and as long as they have plenty of forage and the ice broken on the troughs they should thrive.

The turning out, on into icy conditions,of fit, high quality performance horses is a totally different proposition.
 
Ludoctro said:
Also when you have deep poached fields that freezing leaving large ruts, your asking for bust tendons. I guess those jumping up and down about they must be out maybe a injury is not as important me for one wants and needs my horse sound as a pound. If these means he staying in due to the big freeze so be it. He will have then will go out as soon as its safe to do so. Life is tough sometimes.
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Speaking for my yard and myself and I am unanimous in that.

You can't say people don't care about their horses just because you disagree with their choices they make for their horses!! Maybe their horse cannot be kept in for a number of reasons. That does not mean they have not thought about it or do not care.


I do care about "busted tendon" and it is important.

As mentioned I have owned this yard and run it by myself since 1996. We have NEVER had a tendon problem due to ruts (and we have some).

NONE of my liveries have asked to have their horses kept it, and it is their choice ATEOTD. They only hool around when the ground is softer.
My ponies just mooch around nibbling as do the horses in the back field.

As mentioned its down to personal views - personal choices - personal - decisions.

We do have an indoor school so they can ride in there in the evenings.:)

The only time I would strongly recommend staying in to an owner is they have a laminitis horse.
 
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Adorable Alice I love your posts normally (although disagree about Mick Fitz - badly written and boring I felt) but that is awful patronising! Those of us who turn out
1. Don't need sound horses.
2. Don't care about our horses
3. Don't know how to look after our horses.

I could say all people who leave their horses in 24/7 are the same, but I wouldn't be so sweeping!
 
AdorableAlice said:
^^ seconded. I think many of the comments are coming from owners with certain types of horses and ponies that are well adapted to living out in rough conditions and from owners who have not witnessed a severe equine injury or dealt with the end result.

The horses in the best position to cope with the current conditions are those that live out full time. They adapt as the weather changes around them and as long as they have plenty of forage and the ice broken on the troughs they should thrive.

The turning out, on into icy conditions,of fit, high quality performance horses is a totally different proposition.
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I have fit, high quality performance horses at livery with me, and they're out today in minus 9 with no problems. I have seen more hideous injuries than most, having been lucky enough to work for some incredible people and alongside some wonderful vets at a rehab yard for five years, and so I know how catastrophically wrong things can go.

Even so, the top competition horses are out, alongside the hardy Welsh pony and the cob, none of whom are having, or have had any problems with the hard ground or the conditions.

They're used to being out, and thus are calm when out. If they were kept in, turnout would be a novelty, and they'd no doubt be idiots when they went out.
 
Mine has been in since Saturday. I do like her out every day. But as she is so distressed at the moment (far far worse when out) I am choosing to keep her in. I put her out Saturday morning, within 15 minutes she had broken out and cut herself, she then ran into another Horse who kicked her. I got her straight in and she was a right mess! Luckily the kick only resulted in bruising, but it could have been a lot worse.

We are only allowed 15 minute turnout slots in the menage (unless there is noone else waiting to put out) I go up at unsocialble hours so she can more though. This morning she had 45 minutes. Tonight she will probably have half hour. She isn't ridden.

She goes to her new home at the weekend (I say new but it is her old livery yard) she was very settled there so she will get daily turnout again when I know she isn't going to run through the fencing)

Starzaan, Whever I read your posts about your yard, I am always gutted I am not near you. Your yard sounds so lovely and you sound like such a caring YO!
 
Mine is in.. She is content as long as she has access to hay and water and her decahedron... I take her out every evening for a stroll and in hand grazing. i would love to turn her out but I know she will hoon around and her field is deep, with ruts and frozen solid.. She is shod and even walking sedately across the yard to her stable last night she slipped...and worried herself (and me). I think that you have a freedom of choice to do what you feel suits your horse....
 
Ours are always out! Although if the weather is bad they will stay in (and get given hay and lunch) but will get turned out in the sandschool or bottom fields for an hour or two (main fields are located up a big hill). Plus I'll ensure my horse is ridden in the evening when I get there.
 
My horse is currently in 24/7 for a couple of reasons. I would love to turn her out during the day .. it would certainly keep my hay and bedding costs down, not to mention i hate mucking out twice a day! ....

She is turned out in the school daily with a haynet and she is worked each evening in the floodlit menage as its dark by the time i get back there. She is a little frustrated yes but stressed? no i wouldnt say so.

There is no right or wrong answer. Its down to the individual owner so how i keep my horse at this time of the year is nobody's business but mine. ;)
 
Clodagh said:
Adorable Alice I love your posts normally (although disagree about Mick Fitz - badly written and boring I felt) but that is awful patronising! Those of us who turn out
1. Don't need sound horses.
2. Don't care about our horses
3. Don't know how to look after our horses.

I could say all people who leave their horses in 24/7 are the same, but I wouldn't be so sweeping!
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Sorry ! not meant that way at all ! of course we all care. I have some that can cope on rough ground and some that would break every limb they have. I just think some of the posts on this thread are not seeing the bigger picture of turning out on treacherous ground and feel that all horses must go out regardless.

Some one has top flight horses out now at -9 degrees, thats fab and their ground must be in fantastic condition, but those facilities must be few and far between.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Better a bored horse than a horse with a broken leg.

All 7 of mine stayed put this morning, the yard was an ice rink and the salting did not work. The paddock was safe as the very wet land had not frozen solid, by the morning it will have and also be unsafe to use.

They might have four legs to our two, but they don't stand up any better than we do on ice.
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This. Salutory lesson at a previous yard. YO didn't effectively clear the hard standing and one livery attempted to take her (very aged) veteran out for a pick of grass. He slipped on the ice, couldn't get back up and had to be PTS. Either make your yard safe and ensure that the paddock is appropriate for the horses to be out, or keep them in.

P
 
AdorableAlice said:
^^ seconded. I think many of the comments are coming from owners with certain types of horses and ponies that are well adapted to living out in rough conditions and from owners who have not witnessed a severe equine injury or dealt with the end result.

The horses in the best position to cope with the current conditions are those that live out full time. They adapt as the weather changes around them and as long as they have plenty of forage and the ice broken on the troughs they should thrive.

The turning out, on into icy conditions,of fit, high quality performance horses is a totally different proposition.
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i work with eventers, my youngster is on an eventing yard and my daughters has a very fit fully clipped out irish sports horse. they ALL go out every day regardless of the weather in fact the irish sports horse is out at night and in each day for a few hrs.

i have worked with horses for 25yrs and 7 of those have been at a vets so i have seen the results of many accidents, the only horse in my care to have a tendon problem was due to a blackthorn penetrating the tendon sheath. if horses move for 18hrs a day as designed then their tendons, ligaments and the rest of the body are so much stronger that i believe it outweighs any low risk of injury when the going is not great.
also if you event/hunt or hack out surely you are safer on a horse that has some understanding of the going and knows to respect it by being careful when the going is not at its best?
 
My fit horses have had two hours and a half hours out a great deal of effort is put into the field being safe two entrances the bad weather entrance only used in frozen weather so no leading through poached bits . Field left untopped from mid summer so the long grass acts to protect the ground this works really well .
Horses turned out every day established in chilled pairs or threes they rarely gallop around my experiance is its when you turn out after bad weather that accidents happen when they have been cooped up and then go crackers.
Yes there's always a risk in turn out in good and bad weather but IMO opinion the benefits on my yard ( because I can manage it as I want ) outweigh the risks.
It's better for their winds.
It's better for their feet standing in stables increases atrophy in their heels and is very bad for them esp Youngstock.
It helps prevent colic all that standing around is not good for horses digestion.
It helps to keep the scourge of azoturia at bay.
So I do two to three hours out ( that's about when they start getting bored )
Then they do forty five minutes walking around my level but frozen school .
Boring, a pain, hard work yes but it's not in any way because I need sound horses any less than those who keep in .
 
I would much rather put my horses out for even just a short time every day in whatever conditions rather than keep them cooped up and then they go mental and gallop about, buck, leap when they are eventually let out again. If it is very wet and I have to keep them in I can at least take them for a ride, but if the conditions, like now, are too difficult/dangerous to ride then they go out and find out right from the start how hard the ground is, how slippy the conditions. This applies to ice and snow. I will probably bring them in early, but that is mainly so I don't have to cope with the conditions when it is nearly dark.

If the yard got so slippery from ice after rain for instance, then I would put down used straw from the stable to make a safe walk-way to the field. So far I haven't needed to.
 
I disagree with the idea that only a certain type of horse can thrive turned out in icy conditions. My very well bred mare is turned out just the same as my very common hairy cob.
She is clever enough to know how to look after herself and is very fit and sure footed. Better for her to be out than risk respiratory problems, filled legs, stiffness, arthritis and behavioural problems by confining her in a stable 24/7.
She gets fresh air, exercise at her own pace, she can determine where she goes and how she spends her time with her companions. She can also feel the winter sun shining on her, a good mood enhancer during the bleak days of January. Horses are outside animals with an inherent need to roam and forage.

Having been on yards where promised winter turnout proved to be a myth, or the ground was too unsafe to turnout on, my horses were moved within days to somewhere that could cater for horses every day of the year.

If I couldn't offer them that, I'd give up and get a motorbike instead and lock it in the garage for the winter.
 
LaurenBay said:
Starzaan, Whever I read your posts about your yard, I am always gutted I am not near you. Your yard sounds so lovely and you sound like such a caring YO!
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That's so lovely of you, thank you! I've just taken all my experiences of being a livery, and working on livery yards, and come up with the things that would have made me happy. All I want is for the horses in my care to be as happy as they can be, and for their owners to love being here with them.
 
There is a stable yard near us that the horses are in the stable at night then put on a concrete small area outside the stable with rugs on all day (they are ridden occassionally and hay is put up on the outside of the stable in the day. The horses are mainly greys with either one or two bays they are clipped out and rugged up but are the cleanest horses around. I would love to take the rugs off in the summer and just turn them out on the lovely green grass so they can run and roll like a horse should. 24/7/52 then don't have a horse. That's just being selfish if you keep a horse like this then it's not natural the horses can't even get down for a sleep if they want they have to stand until in the stable. I have been warned by OH to keep away.:(:( and keep my mouth firmly closed:eek:
 
AdorableAlice said:
Sorry ! not meant that way at all ! of course we all care. I have some that can cope on rough ground and some that would break every limb they have. I just think some of the posts on this thread are not seeing the bigger picture of turning out on treacherous ground and feel that all horses must go out regardless.

Some one has top flight horses out now at -9 degrees, thats fab and their ground must be in fantastic condition, but those facilities must be few and far between.
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I do think it deoends on the ground. I have 3 horses on 5 acres of slopey paddocks so it doesn't get wet or poached. In fact I've just gone to get them in and there is no sign of the beggars and I refuse to traipse to the far corner to find them so will wait until they turn up in the home paddock.
 
Jools1234 said:
if horses move for 18hrs a day as designed then their tendons, ligaments and the rest of the body are so much stronger that i believe it outweighs any low risk of injury when the going is not great.
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Agree with this! Many of the comments on this thread have only addressed the effect of long term stabling on the horse's mind, implying that the only detrimental effect to the horse is it getting bored, and if the horse seems happy in the stable then all must be OK.

However, I feel, as the poster above does, and Goldenstar also, that 24/7 confinement for an animal that has evolved to be almost constantly on the move, can lead to a host of physical problems. This is why my horses are kept out as much as possible, even the fit, competing warmblood. As others have said, the more they are accustomed to being out the less they hoon around in excitement, and the more they understand and deal with the ground conditions underfoot.

If people do choose to keep their horses in due to ground conditions, then I think they must to everything in their power to get the horses out of the stable and moving in other ways - such as turnout in a sand school, loose schooling, ridden work, etc - so the horse gets at least two hours out of the stable and moving about each day.
 
Antw23uk said:
There is no right or wrong answer. Its down to the individual owner so how i keep my horse at this time of the year is nobody's business but mine. ;)
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You're right that its none of any one elses business how you keep your horse but this is a discussion ;) I would say that there IS a right or wrong answer, I firmly believe a horse should live out 24/7 by default and only brought in for a very valid reason - such as a veterinary one. I bring one of mine in at night at the moment, however this is purely because I got him 4 / 5 months ago and prior to that he pretty much lived in permanently with occassional 15 min turnout. So its taken a HUGE amount of time and effort on my part to try to get him going out happily all day (had to slowly increase the paddock size and time spent out). Soon I'll start leaving him out all the time. He much prefers being out now, but of course when I got him he was very much a stable-loving horse so that to me is real evidence that ANY horse can and should live out, they simply have to get used to the change of lifestyle. I think a lot of people just cant be bothered with the effort of trying to get them used to turnout properly so its easier to take them in.

With regards to injuries, I've kept various horses out 24/7 (including competition horses through -25 winters) and have only ever had one serious injury which happened last year when my competition horse did a tendon and will never be ridden again. But for 9 years prior he never even got a scratch on him being out and I cant think of any other injuries mine have had. Without a doubt its worth the tiny risk that yes they could hurt themselves, but IMO a competition horse is far fitter and more used to the terrain if kept out so is far LESS likely to hurt himself than a stabled one.

Too many people seem to forget what horses basic needs are - by nature, they should live outside on grass and they should be with other horses. It doesnt matter what breed they are or what level they're competing at, a horse is horse and they ALL have these basic needs. So why on earth do so many people coop them up in stables, shave every mm of hair off then pile 4 layers of rugs on them and give them hay and hard feed to make up for no grass? It just makes no sense to me at all.
 
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I used to own a TB which had been a show horse and lived most of its life in. Its first winter with me it showed no interested in other horses and would spend days in with no change in temprement and on nice days would go out 9-4.
He spent the summer with the rest of my herd than the next winter it was time to come in at night. It lasted about a week. I had a phone call to say he had colic after I got home, went back and he was having a tantrum in the stable and had put holes in the wood wall. I turned him out in the sand school to watch his behavoir and decided it wasn't colic, as he was running up and down calling for his mates. He spent the rest of his life turned out 24/7 rugged and well fed.
Most of mine live out in herds and have shelter, perhaps I am lucky but I can not remember the last time one had the snots. Yes some may lose a bit of weight Jan-Feb, I find there is always one that seems to do less well than the rest, but they are usually far to fat by the end of April. I live in a low lying area so the ground is often water logged, you give them plenty to eat and somewhere to stand out of the mud and they are fine.
 
this might sound a bit inflammatory but it's not meant to be so don't kill me :-s but i was thinking the other day - if any other type of animal - farm animal, zoo animal, dog/cat, was kept in a box all the time of the same proportions of a stable to a horse (i.e., maybe twice the length of the animal square, at best), I am pretty sure that would definitely be considered cruelty. if i went to a zoo and all the animals were in boxes twice the size of thier length, and were in them 24/7, I would report them pretty quick.

That's not to say some horses aren't happy in of course, I know they get used to it (and some don't like going out, yadayadayada) but it was just a thought..... you can probably tell from the post though that mine are out 24/7, even the old tb....
 
I have worked at many yards, first in BHS training (1979) then as a qualified staff. Then as a livery, now owning my own yard. None of the yards I have been at have kept the horses in during icy and muddy times.

I am in the opinion horses need their chill out time in the field to stretch their legs as nature intended them too. Unless accident or illness.


I have yet to hear of a grass liveries horse getting tendon damage due to ice weather Not saying there are not any, I have not heard of any in this area and there are loads of grass liveries around

IMO I am not going to be like other yards in the area who do little or no land management
  • mares our in morning geldings in avo
  • horses out 2 days a week
  • horses out 2 - 3 hours a day
  • horses out alternate days

our land copes very well considering
  • There are more horses than land
  • we can get hay off it
  • we weed kill
  • fertilize and harrow
  • and de poo every day

  • Look after your fields and they will look after your horses
  • feed the fields and they will feed the horses
We must be doing something right
as we have happy horses
happy owners and stick to the routine of out 7 am - 3pm ( 4pm) as it gets lighter, and out 4pm in at 7 am summer. has worked for many years
 
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