Thoughts on this.....Controversial Lungeing?

oldie48 said:
Hi, well of course we are all entitled to an opinion but the video was intended to be watched alongside an article in Horse and Rider, which I haven't read but I'm sure gives more depth. Lunging with the the tail bandage comes with a clear warning about using it under the supervision of an osteopath. The rehab centre at Hartpury has an excellent reputation, I know the person who has developed the centre, she has worked with my local equine hospital for many years and she works not only in this country but also internationally. I think you'd struggle to find anyone better qualified, more experienced or more respected and if I had a horse that needed rehab treatment she would be the first person I'd go to, interestingly she is one of the few osteos that i know who will not touch a horse without a vet referral. I do understand that many people don't like the use of "aids" but when they are used correctly to encourage a horse to use himself properly tbh I really don't have a problem with them.
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Totally agree.
 
tristar said:
if they are teaching people to do that at a college they have no real understanding of how a horse is trained, how it moves, how they could be damaging it.

and how dangerous it is.
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Never had any problems with it and have used it for many years in all its various forms.

The action of securing to the tail encourages the horse to lower its quarters and lift its back.

The first time I rode my horse in it was a revelation, he was more engaged than he had ever been. His canter certainly improved?
 
milliepops said:
I don't think there is any suggestion that they are teaching people do to it at college - the blurb even states it's only done with their osteo and the college has a major therapy centre where she is based. I very much doubt the average student is doing this at Hartpury *unless* they are working in the therapy centre.

The difficulties of seeing something out of context - as mentioned above, would be more helpful to be able to see the accompanying article :)
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It seems irresponsible to have this potentially damaging method up in a video on lunging techniques without more info.

I work with videos a lot and something that is drilled into my team is that if a video doesn't stand alone, it doesn't get published. You can't rely on people to read/watch anything that's meant to accompany it. So if a video needs a disclaimer or more information on something within it that could be misunderstood, wrongly quoted etc, that information needs adding to the video and not putting somewhere else or it could open a nasty can of worms.
 
I guess anyone that feels that strongly about it should contact the magazine and suggest they change the privacy settings. Personally I think there's a lot of info online that needs to be taken with either a pinch of salt, or a dose of common sense. There's plenty on this forum! And the caption about using a method under instruction of an osteopath ONLY does go some way towards suggesting you don't try this at home, folks. IMO.
 
this video has a use, it could be used to demonstrate how not to lunge.

walking a horse in fixed side reins is something i would never do.

the chestnut horse`s canter on a small circle is appalling

anything that encourages over bending is a no no for me.

i think if you need to ride in a gadget such as this you are not using your legs and seat.
 
laura_nash said:
Agreed, I wouldn't use it because I don't use lunging aids, but at least if the horse kicks out he's not getting the full force of his kick (from the leg) in his mouth like they do with a Pessoa or similar lunging aid.
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I agree with this.

I only lunge in a headcollar, I personally wouldn't use anything to attach the horse's mouth to it's back end.

However, I have seen MUCH worse lunging practices.
 
As a riding aid the abbot davis is a good bit of kit in the right hands it is not of course attached to the tail when riding. It has reins with rings on so mostly the effect is that of the horse not the rider equiami is the new version of the abbot davis as far as I can see
 
It is better to teach people how to use the AIDS than to bury your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist.

At least then if they are used they are used correctly.

I don't like draw reins, running martingale, Dutch gags or Waterfords a but I still teach my students how to fit them.

Lunging in a headcollar is a waste of time as you cannot get the correct bend, you are also not in enough control should the horse get cheeky.

windand rain, riding with tail included was part of its uses. I have the original Abbot Davis complete with instructions.
 
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i`ve just come inside from lunging a horse on a hc and am i thrilled with his work, he is a very powerful 16 3 hh living volcano at several points he adopted the most beautiful carriage of poll at the highest point, shoulders lifting back and quarters rounding, all done on a headcollar, the beauty of it was the relaxed way the power showed, later the start of lengthened strides coming from the way he was carrying himself when allowed to go straight.



all it is, is him showing what he is naturally capable of when given the freedom, everything he did was what a horse does anyway, well when its head is not restricted.
 
Pointless lunging mine in a headcollar as he will just meander round, falling in, head everywhere. I lunge him with nothing (bridle) for the warm up and warm down, but otherwise he's in side reins. Maybe once he's built up and learnt to go properly a headcollar will be possible. I lunge him over raised poles and jumps in a headcollsr, as then I'm using the pokework to get him to work correctly, headcollar just means I can change the rein with no faff.

I'm a fan of as few aids/gadgets as possible
 
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Tnavas said:
Sad that you never tried it out - it really is an awesome piece of equipment. I've used it on many horses, especially those who are habitual star gazers and hollow.

This pony was a mess when I bought it, hollow as, head in the air, rushed his fences and was generally a very uncomfortable, dangerous ride.
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Sad? We did try it and we decided we could do the job better using other,possibly more time consuming but less artificial methods than with gadgets.

I have to teach people how to use gadgets, but I don't use them myself when training or re-training horses.
 
stencilface said:
Pointless lunging mine in a headcollar as he will just meander round, falling in, head everywhere. I lunge him with nothing (bridle) for the warm up and warm down, but otherwise he's in side reins. Maybe once he's built up and learnt to go properly a headcollar will be possible. I lunge him over raised poles and jumps in a headcollsr, as then I'm using the pokework to get him to work correctly, headcollar just means I can change the rein with no faff.

I'm a fan of as few aids/gadgets as possible
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Neither of mine would offer any correct work in a head collar either, at least not before doing a whole load of unproductive stuff. I lunge with 2 reins and a bridle :) also super easy to change the rein once you get the knitting under control ;)
 
milliepops said:
Neither of mine would offer any correct work in a head collar either, at least not before doing a whole load of unproductive stuff. I lunge with 2 reins and a bridle :) also super easy to change the rein once you get the knitting under control ;)
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Although I can long rein, I think double lunging is beyond me! My instructor has sensibly given me a foolproof method hopefully. The ned seems to be putting on muscle in the right places finally, only taken me 11 years :D
 
I do have to say lunging in a headcollar is an artform I learnt from my ex boss.

I've managed to get some amazing topline and balance built with just a headcollar. My last mare and this mare are both very good to lunge, I have never been out of control with this horse and I wasn't with my last horse.

But then, I have lunged some horses that just do not get on with it and have sent me skiing! So it is each to their own.

I will lunge with two reins on a bridle if I want to do some work with a contact.
 
Many, many years ago my friend had a strong mare that would take him grass sking accross the paddock when lunging. He got artfully cunning and rammed a steel post into the ground and dropped the hand loop over the pole, end of running off!
 
I went to Hartpury (many moons ago) and for one of our Therapy module sessions we went to the therapy centre to watch how they use the treadmill. Popped horse on it with head to tail tied with baling twine! The reason was to ensure the horses are using the back end and lifting up through the back. Looks like they've upgraded the string nowadays
 
my stallion ini a headcollar, will canter in very small circles, almost next to me, walk to canter on verbal commands, his carriage is stunning with a lot of bend, and i just realized that is how he learned canter pirouettes, because the first time i asked for one ridden he just did it, this thread has made me think about how it came to happen so easily

not wishing to disparage anyone elses theory but i do feel that any time spent doing almost what appears to be very little gently lunging, or as milliepops puts it `unproductive stuff` then building it up to more powerful work is never wasted, it can take ages to get there

it seems that even when doing things that don`t look very `exciting` changes are going on within the horse that set it up for future improvement

but i fully understand where that thinking comes from, and people want to get on and ride, there is so much to discover when working with horses.
 
Tiddlypom said:
The segment which purports to be showing the EquiAmi is showing something else entirely... The EquiAmi is not shown at all.
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I'm glad you've said that - I was squinting at the video thinking that doesn't look like the equiami I've just got.

Which - incidentally - I think is a good bit of kit for encouraging a very wonky horse to work correctly. She's wonky because of compensating for physical problems and being wonky is causing her more issues. The equiami is already showing her how to hold herself better and that's just after 2 x 20 min sessions for 2 weeks - and its still on a loose setting.

I get there are a lot of people not wanting to use lunging aid but, a bit like me with the exercises I have to do for my bad back (bully of a physio!!), sometimes more encouragement is needed to work correctly.
 
tristar said:
my stallion ini a headcollar, will canter in very small circles, almost next to me, walk to canter on verbal commands, his carriage is stunning with a lot of bend, and i just realized that is how he learned canter pirouettes, because the first time i asked for one ridden he just did it, this thread has made me think about how it came to happen so easily

not wishing to disparage anyone elses theory but i do feel that any time spent doing almost what appears to be very little gently lunging, or as milliepops puts it `unproductive stuff` then building it up to more powerful work is never wasted, it can take ages to get there

it seems that even when doing things that don`t look very `exciting` changes are going on within the horse that set it up for future improvement

but i fully understand where that thinking comes from, and people want to get on and ride, there is so much to discover when working with horses.
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It all depends on your own circumstances doesn't it.. we aren't allowed to lunge in the school here anyway, though have done at other yards.
previously one horse didn't know HOW to lunge so had to learn on 2 reins to be in control and learn the concept. If I put her in a headcollar, she wouldn't have had enough direct input to learn. So one rein would be bogging off out of control and the other rein she couldn't get off a 2m circle.
Lunging off the bit was essential for her.

Millie absolutely can't be allowed to do anything uncontrolled on a small circle due to previous injury so just not worth it for me to experiment with techniques where I can't stop her immediately. She likes having a good hooley so I need to be able to prevent that.

This is what I mean by unconstructive stuff - I don't need either of them to build on their natural tendencies, I prefer to be able to shape their learning all the time.

Horses for courses :)
 
I start lunging all of mine in a headcollar, with the rein on the side ring it is possible to get very good bend; with the centre ring of a lunging cavesson I find it makes the young horses twist their heads. Later on everything will lunge off the bit, or a Spanish cavesson, or indeed still off the headcollar. Double reins are for the very advanced horses, and that's a lot more than "just" lunging. I seldom use even sidereins these days, but all of my present horses are "finished" and don't need any help. I'm not a fan of the "sock 'em in the jaw" gadgets, but if there are serious problems I have used Vienna reins. The "tail to mouth" method looks like it would have benefits only to a horse with very serious body problems that couldn't be adressed in other ways - although I can't really think of what problems those might be; never used it so can't really give an opinion.
 
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