palo1
Well-Known Member
The Royal 3 Counties Show asked 12 riders to dismount: https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/three-counties-show-big-riders-asked-dismount-829775
Three Counties Show and overweight Riders...
- Thread starter palo1
- Start date
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Good!
Too many people are fat-blind, with themselves and with their animals. It’s not fair to inflict obesity onto animals, either in the form of having to carry overweight riders, or causing animals to be obese through insufficient management.
It is very positive that this is being recognised.
Too many people are fat-blind, with themselves and with their animals. It’s not fair to inflict obesity onto animals, either in the form of having to carry overweight riders, or causing animals to be obese through insufficient management.
It is very positive that this is being recognised.
Glitterandrainbows
Well-Known Member
Well done to them I say for having the decency to say something. The part about the mother telling the child to see saw the pony’s mouth made me cringe this happens in riding schools and shows all the time pony’s behind the vertical in the strongest of bits makes me angry.
magicmoments
Well-Known Member
It's great, but also about riders that were far too tall for their mounts, and I think this is also important.
palo1
Well-Known Member
I would be interested to know what weight parameters were being considered by the 3C judges/stewards etc; it would be easier I think if there was a definitive weight ratio set for all competing disciplines. I know that 15% would be the better ratio but even starting at 20% would be better than nothing or a subjective judgement that could be challenged. I can be honest and say that I am on the edge of 15% with tack etc for my light horse so I do understand the struggle and some of the emotional issues around rider weights. But it has to be done - we absolutely do not have to ride horses!!
D
Deleted member 163966
Guest
This is brilliant news: well done them. Let's hope that these standards are going to be imposed across the board.
I think the horse world has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to being open about the horse/rider weight ratio issue, so it's high time something positive was done and someone took the lead.
I think the horse world has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to being open about the horse/rider weight ratio issue, so it's high time something positive was done and someone took the lead.
stormox
Well-Known Member
How does being tall, but lightweight, incur a problem for the horse?
PSD
Well-Known Member
If you read the article it states that riders who are too tall are sitting incorrectly on the ponies which impedes the balance of the pony
fankino04
Well-Known Member
Wasn't a problem for Mark Todd on charisma lol
PSD
Well-Known Member
I think the main reasoning now it’s more focusing on adults riding children’s ponies. Surely these people know they’re too big for their mounts, I’d feel ridiculous
magicmoments
Well-Known Member
Knees over shoulder, weight on loins, stated in article. Also just because the rider is slim, does not mean they are not too heavy, particularly if they are muscular. I really feel it shouldn't be a fat shaming exercise. The horse doesn't care whether it's fat, muscle, height causing it.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
They used a 20% value. I wish they would also pay more attention to the RoRs as the weight of some of their riders is appalling!
Glitter's fun
Well-Known Member
Great! The more publicity the better. A good start is being made at shows but this issue needs to filter out & down until it become unacceptable everywhere, otherwise changes will only apply to competition horses.
TLDR version - worse things happen outside the showing world.
Long version-
I have a tendency to go for a trek wherever I find myself, as a way of looking at a new area. One place I went recently I rode a pony of about 13.2-14hh (I'm small). When I got on the stirrups were a good 6 holes too long. I made a joke about giants riding, thinking they'd just put them back on after cleaning. But no, apparently the man that had just ridden her was well over 6 feet. I realised I'd seen him leaving as I arrived. Not overweight for his height but he'd make two of me. During the subsequent conversation I learned that the pony has a problem with napping. (She was great with me.) I asked if they have a rider weight limit for each pony. "Oh yes!" Presumably its just there for show. I get the impression they are struggling financially & the ponies are expected to step up & "take one for the team" rather than refuse a booking. I complained but I doubt anything will happen. The publicity needs to get to the extent that a holiday rider would question the pony they're put on.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
It's not just about obesity, a 5'9" chap is always going to be too big to ride a 12.2 regardless of how much or little he weighs.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
He didn't have to ride in a show saddle.
Glitter's fun
Well-Known Member
I get the impression its as much a problem of being too big for the saddle as anything. Affects your ability to sit in the centre of the saddle. If your knees are over the knee roll the weight distribution through the saddle is uneven, creating pressure points. Also rider's weight will be carried too far back . These were children's ponies being warmed up by adults to quieten them, I presume.
@sbloom
fetlock
Well-Known Member
Apart from adults riding them in (or lungeing them for hours) which has always been a thing, show pony classes these days are a mess. It’s tragic. Other than in HOYS qualifiers (which sees ponies trawled all over the country in a short space of time chasing those) classes are tiny. Often with no entries at all at them at some shows, including RI qualifiers.
Huge amounts are spent on the ponies and on production but seemingly very little on proper tuition for the riders, who often don’t venture out of the arena and/or just get on the ponies at shows. Perched on the saddle rather than in it, stirrups too short to look smaller, knees out, heels up and kick kick kick, unable to keep their lower leg still or trained that way. Whilst hands are rigid, curbs horizontal and heads tucked closer to their chests as a result.
Whilst still beautiful, ponies are mostly bay, obese, lacking bone and all look the same.
We’ve ruined the British riding pony, which was the envy of others internationally.
Huge amounts are spent on the ponies and on production but seemingly very little on proper tuition for the riders, who often don’t venture out of the arena and/or just get on the ponies at shows. Perched on the saddle rather than in it, stirrups too short to look smaller, knees out, heels up and kick kick kick, unable to keep their lower leg still or trained that way. Whilst hands are rigid, curbs horizontal and heads tucked closer to their chests as a result.
Whilst still beautiful, ponies are mostly bay, obese, lacking bone and all look the same.
We’ve ruined the British riding pony, which was the envy of others internationally.
JumpTheMoon1
Well-Known Member
About time ! Some were repeat offenders so hope some hefty fines are imposed or people banned.Fat chance of that but something needs to be done fast.
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
Phrasing it as the 'horse to rider weight ratio' is very tactful and will hopefully prevent too much upset.
I think this is a fantastic step forward for horse welfare.
I think this is a fantastic step forward for horse welfare.
saddlesore
Well-Known Member
I think this is a great step forward. Obesity in horses and riders is becoming an increasingly big issue- in my mind anyway- and in the interest of horse welfare people need to speak up.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Stability in the saddle and where the riders weight is, not so much how much area we can spread the weight over. Show saddles are the worst, their only redeeming feature is a flat seat but usually too flat to support the pelvis.
They are often wide over the top and down the sides and are often on wide horses. For most riders this means the knee goes forwards. Couple that with a rear balance point, ie the seat is designed to sit the rider further rback on the horse, and you have a recipe for a forward leg position.
Then we have show saddle blocks - long, straight cut and often rear blocks too. All of this disconnects the rider from the horse, and can even push the rider upwards, popping then slightly up out of the saddle. But it certainly means less leg room.
Adding all this up means that in average show saddles are likely to be the least stabilising for a rider and the most likely to put them into a serious chair seat. Then add the fitting on, and so often theire fitted (and occasionally designed!) to look so discreet at the back that they TIP back. Even more chance of all the riders weight on the cantle!
The right fit for the rider carries them over the horse's centre of gravity, is forwards in the saddle, and over the feet with their knee able to drop and their leg drape. More.important than rider weight or even panel area/saddle balance but we have little education about it, in this country or elsewhere.
A tactful heavy rider in such a saddle, on a horse with brilliant posture and functional movement patterns, would be way better than a tiny rider swimming around and lumping on the back half of a tipping back saddle on a horse that has poor posture and dysfunctional movement patterns.
Tall riders - if unstable then they cause more issues due to the leverage of their upper body, think of what happens when kids on parents shoulders move around ....
They are often wide over the top and down the sides and are often on wide horses. For most riders this means the knee goes forwards. Couple that with a rear balance point, ie the seat is designed to sit the rider further rback on the horse, and you have a recipe for a forward leg position.
Then we have show saddle blocks - long, straight cut and often rear blocks too. All of this disconnects the rider from the horse, and can even push the rider upwards, popping then slightly up out of the saddle. But it certainly means less leg room.
Adding all this up means that in average show saddles are likely to be the least stabilising for a rider and the most likely to put them into a serious chair seat. Then add the fitting on, and so often theire fitted (and occasionally designed!) to look so discreet at the back that they TIP back. Even more chance of all the riders weight on the cantle!
The right fit for the rider carries them over the horse's centre of gravity, is forwards in the saddle, and over the feet with their knee able to drop and their leg drape. More.important than rider weight or even panel area/saddle balance but we have little education about it, in this country or elsewhere.
A tactful heavy rider in such a saddle, on a horse with brilliant posture and functional movement patterns, would be way better than a tiny rider swimming around and lumping on the back half of a tipping back saddle on a horse that has poor posture and dysfunctional movement patterns.
Tall riders - if unstable then they cause more issues due to the leverage of their upper body, think of what happens when kids on parents shoulders move around ....
Abacus
Well-Known Member
As a point of detail - how are they calculating 20% or 15% if they don’t weigh the horse, and what would they use in the calculation if the horse itself is overweight anyway, as is often the case? I think it’s great they are doing this and presumably they are judging by eye but at some point they might have to be scientific about it.
black and brown
Well-Known Member
Given that horse welfare and public perception is now a hot topic this decision is not before time. For many non-horsey people an agricultural show may be their first interaction with horses. Seeing overweight riders on horses does not look good and does raise doubts as to whether the horses' interests are considered at all.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
A weigh bridge on site would be better, but a vet can assess whether the horse is at a healthy weight or not. Going by some (far too many) show horses, they are carrying easily 100kg too much condition. The % rule is to the horse's healthy weight.
A mix of weigh tape (which are known to be unreliable) and vet's opinion would have to do if there is no weigh bridge. As long as the vet chosen is not connected with the showing fraternity and has no wealthy clients who show
.
HeyMich
Well-Known Member
I was at a local agricultural show yesterday and one horse/rider combination was asked to leave the ring. The rider was incredibly overweight, but the horse was also lame. I'm not sure what the judge said (whether it was soundness issue or weight issue) but I was very glad to see them dismount! I think the word is finally spreading (thankfully!).
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
That’s good to hear - throwing lame horses out of the ring is a step forward in the showing world.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Putting weight to the side for a moment , Height is an interesting one there’s no doubt that you see some over tall riders on ponies showing .
For me this simple it’s a show they simply should never win showing is about in a large part how things look if the picture is wrong they need to be down the line .
For me this simple it’s a show they simply should never win showing is about in a large part how things look if the picture is wrong they need to be down the line .
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Flowerofthefen
Well-Known Member
That's great to hear!! Friend went to an agricultural show 2 weeks ago and was horrified at the size of the Connie ponies. Still a lot more meets to be done throughout all disciplines.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
We would do more in welfare terms by bearing down on the fat horses because that’s so harmful .
Very Fat horses should not be placed ever and I am not talking about that lush glean of summer that we many of us battle to keep in control you still see pictures of hugely obese horses taking part in the equestrian press .
Very Fat horses should not be placed ever and I am not talking about that lush glean of summer that we many of us battle to keep in control you still see pictures of hugely obese horses taking part in the equestrian press .
Dexter
Well-Known Member
They didn't, they did it on the way it looks which is really not good. This cannot be done on people's opinions. They need to use a set figure and actually weigh riders and horses. Doing it subjectively leaves it far too open to criticism.