Three ring Dutch gag & Flash bands

[SL500]

Hi everyone, I have a large heavy ID who leans on his bit. The only bit that seems to work is a 3 ring gag. I have just swapped his bridle for a comfort bridle but it comes with a flash band, just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on a flash (not overly tight) and a 3 ring gag.

My instructor says I need him on 3rd ring and a flash but I’m wondering if it’s a bit much…. Thoughts please x

 

[Breather]

Nooooo! Have you asked your instructor why he leans on the bit. Does he lean on the bit when she rides him?

 

[SL500]

Nooooo! Have you asked your instructor why he leans on the bit. Does he lean on the bit when she rides him?

Yes, he is worked in the correct way but unfortunately he came to me later in his life and she suspects he’s always been allowed to do it.

 

[Breather]

How long have you been having lessons with her? What bit did he have when you bought him?

 

[GypsGal1718]

A flash is making the mouth wired shut

 

[Clodagh]

I used to ride for a dealer and everything went in a 3 ring gag. I love them, but would use two reins myself.
And a flash is ok unless you crank it up, so I’d either leave it loose or take it off.

 

[Timelyattraction]

Have you tried a Waterford mouthpiece?

 

[SL500]

Have you tried a Waterford mouthpiece?

He’s in a 6” and I can’t find one bigger to give enough clearance at the side of his mouth

 

[Rowreach]

To answer your question, a loose flash is fine (they should be loose).

To not answer your question, a 3 ring gag is a bit I will not have in my collection, would never use and can think of a multitude of other options for a horse that leans (having established why the horse does it).

 

[SL500]

How long have you been having lessons with her? What bit did he have when you bought him?

Over 6 years, he was in a Pelham with curb when he came to me

 

[SL500]

To answer your question, a loose flash is fine (they should be loose).

To not answer your question, a 3 ring gag is a bit I will not have in my collection, would never use and can think of a multitude of other options for a horse that leans (having established why the horse does it).

What would you suggest, my instructor believes he was ridden previously by someone with a strong left rein, he is a big lad we are working on him learning to self carry and work from behind, we get more moments of this now than we did but old habits and all that

 

[Breather]

A flash is making the mouth wired shut

Over 6 years, he was in a Pelham with curb when he came to me

Why the change from Pelham to gag?

 

[Rowreach]

What would you suggest, my instructor believes he was ridden previously by someone with a strong left rein, he is a big lad we are working on him learning to self carry and work from behind, we get more moments of this now than we did but old habits and all that

Well the first thing I'd look at is his mouth/tongue conformation. And then a few other things, but that's the most important before trying other things. He's probably leaning because he's not comfortable.

 

[Timelyattraction]

He’s in a 6” and I can’t find one bigger to give enough clearance at the side of his mouth

WS - Waterford Snaffle - The Horse Bit Shop

WS - Waterford Snaffle

thehorsebitshop.co.uk

 

[SL500]

WS - Waterford Snaffle - The Horse Bit Shop

WS - Waterford Snaffle

thehorsebitshop.co.uk

You legend thanks I will look into that, the 6” I got was too tight.

 

[SL500]

Well the first thing I'd look at is his mouth/tongue conformation. And then a few other things, but that's the most important before trying other things. He's probably leaning because he's not comfortable.

I asked my vet and equine dentist to check his mouth, tongue and pallet and they confirmed this to be fine

 

[SL500]

Why the change from Pelham to gag?

The bit was rusty and had seen better days and the advice I received at the time was the 3 ring, that said it could be worth another go with a new replacement.

 

[Rowreach]

I asked my vet and equine dentist to check his mouth, tongue and pallet and they confirmed this to be fine

It's about mouth conformation and what bit (shape, size, type and material) will suit. And then what cheeks are on the bit, etc etc.

 

[Timelyattraction]

You legend thanks I will look into that, the 6” I got was too tight.

I would try that before the 3 ring gag. If he is leaning and on the forehand already a gag uses poll pressure its just encouraging him to drop his head down and lean on you i imagine. Go back to a snaffle and try the Waterford and see how he does

 

[Timelyattraction]

Also when he starts leaning on you when you are schooling what do you do? If mine ever does it my instructor gets me to give the reins forward/ drop the contact so they cant hang onto your hands and have to stand up and balance themselves

 

[Breather]

The bit was rusty and had seen better days and the advice I received at the time was the 3 ring, that said it could be worth another go with a new replacement.

Why not a snaffle? I rode my first horse in a vulcanite Pelham and martingale - that's what he had when I bought him. Riding him in a snaffle was a bit hit and miss.

 

[Clodagh]

A three ring gag is only as severe as your hands. Nothing leans on them anyway. Like I say for my strong mare I did use two reins and a back strap. The dealers horses were just in single reins on the bottom ring.

 

[mug]

I haven’t used with this bit myself but I’ve previously found a back strap helpful for a horse that could be quite heavy in the hand. Doesn’t sit near a flash so that can still be used if you need.

 

[irishdraft]

He’s in a 6” and I can’t find one bigger to give enough clearance at the side of his mouth

I think I have a loose ring Waterford that's 7" I occasionally used it for 18.2hh ID who could get heavy. I can check size if you want I won't need it in future x

 

[Goldenstar]

I hate hate hate the three ring gag .
They ruin horses.

 

[4Hoofed]

I’m overall not a fan of bitting to solve a problem. Personally I don’t think gags etc should be used with a flash. The horse needs to have an option to tap out. I would try him in a Waterford snaffle and drop the contact when he leans, and reward lightness with a stretch and scratch. They can’t lean if there’s nothing to lean on! If you go for the Dutch gag.. go for two reins and a chin strap. Or a Pelham which is what it basically becomes

Problem with adding more hardware if something’s going on is it won’t resolve the issue and gradually you’ll just have to keep upping the ante. I do ride in a Pelham personally but mostly with curb on his neck. I also ride in a head collar a lot I’m just too lazy to change my bit before shows

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

Another vote for Waterford over 3 ring gag I rode one that has both and dislike the gag

 

[GypsGal1718]

Think of it like this,
You have a sore on your cheek, there is two options for you.
One. Put on a cream that will temporarily numb the pain
Two. Put in the time to get the right proper treatment from a doctor to solve it
Option one is like bitting changes, a quick fix not a solution
Two is working with a good instructor to solve the issue. Personally I would put him in a side pull or English hackamore and work with your instructor and I think you’ll find he doesn’t lean, best of luck

 

[SL500]

I think I have a loose ring Waterford that's 7" I occasionally used it for 18.2hh ID who could get heavy. I can check size if you want I won't need it in future x

That would be fab thanks

 

[Bellalily]

I have an ID X Appy and was so shocked to read this. Take the bit out. There are lots of really kind bitless bridles out there. Problem solved and he’ll love you for it.