Tips for field pacingand YO issue please.

He is very sociable, affectionate, loves a fuss and now seems to thoroughly enjoy seeing what's going on and who is doing what. I highly doubt he is the only horse in the world that likes to be nosey.

He began pacing a new paddock because he felt isolated from the yard in a new environment after being on a very busy yard, I can't quite see how individual t/o is the cause as he has never paced in the previous 3 years. As expressed numerous times, he is not a seasoned pacer/fence walker. Now he is, for the majority of the time, very settled but can get a bit stressed in an another new environment now and then. Again, highly doubtful he is the only horse that has had issues like this.

Why does it matter if he's not the only horse with this issue? If any other horse had this issue we'd be saying the same thing! You must be being purposely obtuse here?

Do you really think your horse would rather watch people muck out stables in the yard than be having a play with a couple of other horses?

And if you KNOW he's sociable, why is your decision to keep him on his own?
 
well that original thread was uncomfortable reading from many points of view tbh. Will be glad that I have the set up I have for mine and remind them of how lucky they are later.


OP I might be wrong but seem to think you're in Ireland? If you aren't and you wanted to try something different with him then I know just the person but they're in Wales. If you're ever interested PM me and I'll give you contact details.
 
freak accidents can happen anywhere though. I've had one off all summer and missed the whole season due to an injury he got in the field. But at the end of the day i'd prefer him to be happy outside and risk an injury - instead of being wrapped in cotton wool in a stable (where accidents can still happen).

Group turnout works miracles for horses brains. I've an neurotic exracer that I moved yards four times with as he wouldn't settle, and we couldn't find a routine for him at all that worked (yards were either too crowded, too quiet, unsuitable turnout etc.) In desperation, I ended up throwing him into a massive cheap field, convinced he would kill himself in a herd or get injured; and lo and behold he had an absolute ball, and after a few months became a happy, content stressfree horse who couldn't care less about routine or how far/close fields were to yard. It was a pain for me as new field meant walking across 30 acres of bogs and ditches, and walking him up a road to get to an arena, but the most important thing was that HE was happy.


From my experience horses fixate on tiny details when they are unhappy and their brains aren't being challenged enough through interaction, play or work. A happy horse, who has good social interaction and play in a suitable herd is too busy to be fixated on things.

Hope you get it sorted.
 
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I am going to come at this slightly differently and propose that the individual turnout may not be the key issue here. The OP's horse went away to a trainer's earlier in the year to progress his education and bring him back into work after having winter turned away. As far as I am aware, he didn't pace prior to this. He came back from his training to a new yard and then the pacing started a week or two later (I think, althought I may have misunderstood). I know of the trainers that the OP used and I know he will have been worked sympathetically but hard enough to get his brain working. For various reasons the OP hasn't been able to work the horse much since his return from the trainers, largely because a new saddle is required which hasn't yet arrived. I wonder if maybe the horse is just missing the workload that he had at the trainers and will be happier once OP can crack on with him under saddle. It just seems too coincidental to me that the pacing began once his workload reduced. So I am proposing the alternative diagnosis that OP has a horse with a work ethic, rather than he is desperate for group turnout (although of course the one does not rule out the other being a contributory factor). Shoot me now.....
 
I am going to come at this slightly differently and propose that the individual turnout may not be the key issue here. The OP's horse went away to a trainer's earlier in the year to progress his education and bring him back into work after having winter turned away. As far as I am aware, he didn't pace prior to this. He came back from his training to a new yard and then the pacing started a week or two later (I think, althought I may have misunderstood). I know of the trainers that the OP used and I know he will have been worked sympathetically but hard enough to get his brain working. For various reasons the OP hasn't been able to work the horse much since his return from the trainers, largely because a new saddle is required which hasn't yet arrived. I wonder if maybe the horse is just missing the workload that he had at the trainers and will be happier once OP can crack on with him under saddle. It just seems too coincidental to me that the pacing began once his workload reduced. So I am proposing the alternative diagnosis that OP has a horse with a work ethic, rather than he is desperate for group turnout (although of course the one does not rule out the other being a contributory factor). Shoot me now.....

No I agree I don't think herd turnout doing nothing will necessarily help this horse become an easy useful animal.
I would get this horse into daily work if it where mine with turnout with out with friends .this horse is at an age where many need exercise and the mental stimulation of training. / hacking to settle them to a useful working life .
I can't understand why having had a difficult horse with a pro for starting you would bring it home and let it veg out I would have kept going even it it meant paying a rider to come in .
 
that makes sense too. some horses just need the mental stimulation and are happier working. If the horse was a at a good yard with constant, firm, sympathetic handling, and rules set up for work. Now its probably at all a loss with all that structure gone.
 
Some horses just cannot copy with individual turnout. I expect, if this issue started after he returned from training - perhaps they turned him out with another animal? I cant see the problem. Leave the pony out in the field with him.
 
From reading the earlier thread as well as this one it seems to me that the horse has been moved around a lot in its short life and suffered a lot of anxiety. I guess with your current yard being nearly a hour away - 2 hours driving a day, that this yard may not be sustainable long term for you however well the horse settles. I don't'the envy your situation one bit - you've invested a lot into getting the horse right, both financially and emotionally. If you can't find another yard closer to home where the horse has a chance of settling and becoming useful and fulfilling for you to enjoy, I'd seriously think about finding it a good home with someone who has the right set up.
 
He was rearing, bolting, box walking and field pacing at 8 months old after the vet visit so he was pacing before a long time before he went to the trainers fun times. I think that's why I think carrying on as is now/more professional help probably isn't going to help much 4 years down the line.
 
Just read the previous thread from Feb 2014. This poor horse has had no downtime what to ever just to be a horse. Just put him in a bl**dy small herd and let him chill for a while. Which was advised a year and a half ago.

I also note this is the horse which you said in another post is not good with strangers? So when you say sociable I guess you mean with other horses? And you?
 
On current yard, no. I have also had bad experiences of this in the past and would hope to avoid it unless there was absolutely no other choice.

My horse has been on individual turnout for about 8 years now and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't think its detrimental to them so long as they have company and the rule of 'last horse left to be brought in' is adhered to so I can understand how the OP feels. I think after a long period of time on their own a horse suddenly put with another for company could end up very playful due to the sudden stimulus of another horse, and this could lead to problems, maybe with an unhappy outcome.
 
Your chap is much older though applecart, no on his own during the very formative years. Mine is on his own currently as his fieldmate has moved yards, it's a work in progress and he is otherwise happy and settled (and I live there too!)
 
My horse has been on individual turnout for about 8 years now and I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't think its detrimental to them so long as they have company and the rule of 'last horse left to be brought in' is adhered to so I can understand how the OP feels. I think after a long period of time on their own a horse suddenly put with another for company could end up very playful due to the sudden stimulus of another horse, and this could lead to problems, maybe with an unhappy outcome.
With all due respect Applecart your horse is very much older than the OP's. I have found older horses can 'sometimes' appreciate a bit of piece and quiet. A young gelding often needs most stimulation. Young horses (particularly males) have a 'need' to play that is hardwired. This diminishes to some extent with age. I only know of a couple of horses that have been 'happy' alone. What we perceive as as happy is very far removed from what a horse does. It took 2 years for me to 'partly' undo the damage done to my 2 year old who had been teathered by travellers for 18 months so not allowed to interact with other horses. He 'played' at least 5/6 hours a day for nearly 2 years with my other horses (who were sick to death of him but very understanding). He is still very lacking in social skills and finds new horses very distressing. He is extremely intelligent and needs constant stimulation - horse or human.
 
He 'played' at least 5/6 hours a day for nearly 2 years with my other horses (who were sick to death of him but very understanding). He is still very lacking in social skills and finds new horses very distressing. He is extremely intelligent and needs constant stimulation - horse or human.

Hi Hetsmum I appreciate what you are saying with regards to age. But my point is valid insomuch as it could cause a problem if a horse has been on its own for a while and then reintroduced into a herd or with others. I bet if your horses hadn't been so understanding of your 2 year old they would have given him a good boot for his trouble. Having lost a horse with a broken leg (most probably casued by a hairline fracture from a kick) and from my own present horse having a significant bone chip (which the vet admitted could have turned out to be catastrophic had he galloped around when I was advised to turn out by same vet following the kick) it is worrying.

I know there is no physical interaction when they are on individual turnout and they like to mutually groom each other but a lot of yards cater for individual turnout and on some yards (including mine) this is all they do. For seven years my horse was able to touch others over the fence and often did mutually groom his friend (my best friends horse) in the next paddock. We did consider putting them together but I felt the risk was too great of Bailey being too playful and the risk was to much.

If I had another horse (God forbid) I would bite the bullet and turn out with others if I was at a yard that offered group turnout, but I would never consider my Bailey going out with anything other than a shetland, or unshod small pony as he is too precious to me.
 
Hi Hetsmum I appreciate what you are saying with regards to age. But my point is valid insomuch as it could cause a problem if a horse has been on its own for a while and then reintroduced into a herd or with others. I bet if your horses hadn't been so understanding of your 2 year old they would have given him a good boot for his trouble. Having lost a horse with a broken leg (most probably casued by a hairline fracture from a kick) and from my own present horse having a significant bone chip (which the vet admitted could have turned out to be catastrophic had he galloped around when I was advised to turn out by same vet following the kick) it is worrying.

I know there is no physical interaction when they are on individual turnout and they like to mutually groom each other but a lot of yards cater for individual turnout and on some yards (including mine) this is all they do. For seven years my horse was able to touch others over the fence and often did mutually groom his friend (my best friends horse) in the next paddock. We did consider putting them together but I felt the risk was too great of Bailey being too playful and the risk was to much.

If I had another horse (God forbid) I would bite the bullet and turn out with others if I was at a yard that offered group turnout, but I would never consider my Bailey going out with anything other than a shetland, or unshod small pony as he is too precious to me.
I understand where you are coming from and unfortunately now OP is trying to 'shut the stable door after the horse is bolted' so to speak. I have also had one of mine have a hairline fracture to a leg and he was only turned out with his best mate. I lost him 6 weeks ago to colic in the field so s**t happens anyway :( I know I am very lucky in so much as I only have my own horses turned out together so there is very little in the way of 'new introductions'. I would probably be not so keen to be on a Livery yard with a herd turnout with lots of new horses constantly introduced. However I still stand by my point and if at some point OP does not 'bite the bullet' she will end up with more and more problems. It won't go away with a horse like this and I fully expect posts in the future of 'my horse had ulcers'. I honesty would get a youngish companion on loan from a rescue and turn them out together.
ps my lads did give the 2 year old a good boot for his trouble from time to time but he survived. Unless particularly nasty (or unlucky) horses generally fire warning shots from the back end. Especially when they have a 2 year old attached by his teeth to the tail flap of their turnout rugs who they can't detach no matter how much they try ;)

pps Had I not bitten the bullet when I did I would have ended up with an unhandleable (is that a word?) horse. He had already taken to rearing whenever he was handled and constantly biting. All disappeared now.........
 
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I think it is appalling to keep a horse from the age of 2 on individual turnout and I don't give a damn about history of the op being traumatised by field accident.

Suck it up, put your young horse in a more suitable environment or get out of horses.

I'm not usually so tactless but this has made my blood boil. Oh and I 100% know from personal experience the trauma of loss through field accidents but horses need company, young horses especially and if you can't get past your history you need to let the horse go.
 
Shetland was being a kids pony this morning so mine was on his own but was fine. Shortly after the Shetland got turned out with him he started pacing, after a while they took the Shetland out and he stopped, so having a companion hasn't worked.

Give it time and preferably a better companion, but if this is the only option then take it. Mine got a new companion recently though she's already in with others, she's prone to fence walking so off she went because of the new scenario and she did it for 36 hours solid. Once she'd worn herself out she settled down and that was it.
 
I am sorry but the whole 'my horse is too precious to me..' thing just does not sit well with me, my animals are so precious to me that I like to think I give them the best life I can for them, my mare is not worried about individual turn out as long as she can see others and due to missing out on socialisation before I had her she does not groom other horses or really interact but she still seems more settled and secure when there are others about. My lurcher was the closest an animal has ever been to my heart and if I had kept her on lead I would possibly had her for another few years but she was so precious to me that I allowed her to run for her last 2.5 years knowing that it would mean that I was very likely to lose her sooner, but also knowing without free running she would not 'live' for that time but simply exist
 
havent read the entire thread, but you cant generalise that all horses must have company in the field and thats that.

ours have all been on individual turnout for years and since that its been much easier to manage them. 99% of horses that compete are on individual turnout and clearly not ruined by it!

its lovely to see them running in a herd but not practical for most.

as long as they have horses close by and some form of social contact on the yard, it really isnt the end of the world for them not to have a field mate.

my stallion has been separated since before his 3rd birthday-he plays too hard to go out with the old boy, and Fig is already terrified of large horses so wouldnt welcome Goof's rough and tumble.

Bruce needs no grass and Fig needs loads so they are split too as even muzzled long dairy grass is too much for Bruce.

they are only a fence line away. The only one that cant touch over the fence is Goof, and he is allowed mutual grooming time over the stable door.

they are content easy going horses..............i think some people are getting rather worked up over this!

i have no solution to OP issue, we have a fence walker (Fig) but hes ok out in the day as long as he comes in at night. he wears a track in his fields but its our land so we just suck it up and re seed in spring. He fence walks if its hot, cold, windy,still, warm, dull, muggy,raining or snowing! he does it if all 4 are out, if hes the only one out, and even when he did have company. he does it on fresh grass, old grass, even if bucket feed in field. Theres no stress or panic in his face when he does it.

he eats a bit, walks a bit, eats a bit, sleeps a bit, walks a bit.

hes a loving cuddly chilled out boy, he just has this little quirk. But i know for a face introducing a boisterous young field companion wouldnt help.

no easy solution esp if the YO keeps going on about the track.
 
I am sorry but the whole 'my horse is too precious to me..' thing just does not sit well with me

So agree.

If you are that way inclined then get yourself a hamster.

I really do feel that it's a welfare issue to keep horses alone for long periods of time, ESPECIALLY when they are clearly showing signs of stress.

To not allow a horse its basic right to have a companion is just so cruel. Scratching each other over a stable door for ten mins - gee, great. What a lucky horse.

Horses will find a way of injuring themselves whether they're with others or not. I'd rather have a horse for three years and have to put it down from a field accident, but know he spent his days content and playfully, than to have one for ten years who's been stuck on it's own and miserable.
 
I do think if the OP can't cope with the horse in front of her she should consider selling him. He is different to Fig in that historically it doesn't seem to be his only issue/he is also reported as difficult to handle etc etc.

(It is the old YO who is going no about the track)

I think a consistent group a fence line away is doable, and know plenty that are ok on individual turnout but the OPs horse seems to have a whole host of associated issues, has never really settled etc. My own lad is on his own atm- as his fieldmate has left the yard, he seems ok with it but it won't be long term and he is 22 and very settled there anyway.
 
if he was mine i'd turn him away in a field with other gelding to play with for a long time. No livery and being brought in and out, just out 24/7 to figure himself out. I've a yearling and I could never imagine how she would have coped on individual turnout, it is so unnatural and the results are what you are struggling with now. Risk of injury isn't a reason of keeping a horse isolated, they need to be a horse. If it was mine i'd toss it into the biggest, most stimulating field I could find, and leave it in peace for a while. It sounds like a very unhappy difficult horse. You have tried your best and I don't think finding the right routine is the answer, i think the horse just needs to be left alone to be a horse.
I agree with this.
I bought a three year old who was shown as colt, and came from the most luxurious home. He was lovely to handle and apart from the odd head toss you would have known he was not gelded. The downside he had been kept on padded solitary confinement, in a box 23 out of 24 hrs, the hour he was out he was in a school on his own.
I am fortunate I have my own land so I turned him out with an old gelding until he was gelded, not too bad, gelding is a pig so I thought would soon sort him out, but that wasn't a problem.
After gelding he was turned out in a small group, he basically could not cope, his way of coping was shutting down and standing, which although it doesn't cut up the ground it stopped him from eating and he rapidly lost weight. The only place he felt safe was in a stable, where he munched his hay and feed, he poos in one corner so its like keeping a rabbit. After nearly three years he is about normal, can hold his own with one or two, outwardly appears normal but in a larger group does not do well. I have watched in the paddock for hours and being stressed stops him from eating, he may not be cribbing, or field walking but he is still stressed, it just not so obvious.
You horse has started to show signs of stress, but it doesn't mean he wasn't stressed before he just had not found a physical way to release it. He developed a way to cope with it before, and I think the Shetland is a bit of a red herring, he did not have long enough to bond, so perhaps he was just a distraction.
You talk about training him to ride, but you also have to train him for life, and think how will I help solve this not for this week but for as long as he lives and living in isolation is not life for any animal. I have had horses I have bought with separation anxiety , and it takes planning and perpetration every time you need to do something with them, not everyone's ideal horse. Not everyone can assure an animal a home for life, so if he ends up being sold it will go against him unless he is exceptional.
He needs to go out in a small established herd and become a horse, call it his gap year, he will come hopefully better to cope with life and be a much more manageable.
 
You horse has started to show signs of stress, but it doesn't mean he wasn't stressed before he just had not found a physical way to release it. He developed a way to cope with it before, and I think the Shetland is a bit of a red herring, he did not have long enough to bond, so perhaps he was just a distraction.
You talk about training him to ride, but you also have to train him for life, and think how will I help solve this not for this week but for as long as he lives and living in isolation is not life for any animal. I have had horses I have bought with separation anxiety , and it takes planning and perpetration every time you need to do something with them, not everyone's ideal horse. Not everyone can assure an animal a home for life, so if he ends up being sold it will go against him unless he is exceptional.
He needs to go out in a small established herd and become a horse, call it his gap year, he will come hopefully better to cope with life and be a much more manageable.

Very sensible post. There are many sensible posts on this thread and I hope for her horses sake that she takes note. I hate individual turnout but as a single horse owner with a limited number of options on where to keep that horse it's difficult. However if this were my horse I would be doing everything in my power to find him somewhere to be turned away for a year to grow up and become a horse.

I have owned a unsocialised horse. He was a nightmare to manage to begin with and took years to settle down.
 
people overestimate the danger to a horse who is turned out with a herd for the first time. A lot of people make it sound like the horse will either be kicked to death by the herd or break a leg immediately. There's no reason the situation can't be managed by electric fencing off an area and doing introductions gradually.

I had an emergency situation due to a family illness, where i literally had to throw my socially unskilled exracer into a massive herd. He got a few bites and torn rugs while he learned the ropes, but the herd seemed to understand he had no social skills and treated him like a small stupid child really. All he wanted to do was play for hours and most generally went along with it.
 
I think some posters have replied before reading my comments after my OP, tut tut, lazy! ;)

So to reiterate, he is on a livery package that involves others handling him 5 days a week. He has not caused any issue. He is led in a head collar and rope (no chain). He hasn't bolted in 3 years. He reared once being led about 2 years ago in a very excitable situation. He is not the same horse as he was after the surgery at 8 months old yet he is still being judged as such by people who have never seen him in the flesh.

Whatever he was doing intermittently in the past couple of weeks at this new yard, he's not doing it now as far as I can see. I have not seen him pace at new yard, there are no tracks and every time I go there he's quietly grazing away. The YO has let me know that he has been unsettled in field but not surprising as it is all new to him, it was described as pacing and as at the recent yard the pacing was horrendous I was obviously concerned and looking for advice.

Individual t/o isn't the issue, as much as many of you like to presume it is. As he has now settled very well in such a short space of time (I'm sure most advise a few weeks isn't a long time to have settled at a new yard, or at least that's I've read on other threads, so just give the horse time (wonder why only 1 poster has mentioned this on my thread, odd.)), it certainly points to the fact that he didn't like feeling so isolated from the recent yard activities after being at the Trainers busy yard.

When my horse was returned to me, the Trainer advised me to give him a month off. Now he much happier at this new yard, he's started back to work. He was excellent again this evening on lunge. Looking at him now, I can't see he's going to be a bother to get on when saddle arrives.

However no doubt should he ever have a fright from cyclist or have a naughty day, it will be because he's on individual t/o.
 
It would be nice if you could be pleasant to people who have taken time and trouble to consider your posts and reply given that you were 'obviously concerned and looking for advice'. No one has been nasty to you on this thread. People have tried to help. Fine - you don't agree with the advice but rather than spend time picking apart and criticising responses how about saying thank you.
 
You asked for help but aren't willing to swallow your own pride and admit that you are the issue here.

If everything is so fine and dandy why did you bother writing a hardback novel of an OP asking for help on stopping your horse from pacing and stressing out?

How miraculous that he's now suddenly stopped.

I feel so sorry for your horse, I really do.
 
It would be nice if you could be pleasant to people who have taken time and trouble to consider your posts and reply given that you were 'obviously concerned and looking for advice'. No one has been nasty to you on this thread. People have tried to help. Fine - you don't agree with the advice but rather than spend time picking apart and criticising responses how about saying thank you.

Arzada, I gave a general reply to my own thread.

I doubt you could find posts where I have not been pleasant and supportive to others with their own difficulties.
 
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