Tips on going forward on a lazy Connemara, with an absence of leg contact - I am very short :-(

[PONYPC]

Hello, i mix up my horses routine, hacking, schooling and a bit of jumping, but unless in a group lesson and when schooling alone he can be lazy. I had a friend ride him yesterday for the first time and have had him schooled by my instructor. They say the same he needs leg and you need to have a long leg on and as low to his bellow as posible. This is my dilema, i keep my legs off him as much as possible, i squeeze with my lower legs as and when he needs it "only". But here's the issue, i have a very short inside leg 26 1/2 inches, this is for an adult yes, even our alteration hand checks twice when i take in trousers to be shortened, i concentrate on keeping a quiet seat. So I am not sure i am getting enough contact in the right places, considering my leg needs to clear the saddle sides additionaly. My Conny is only 15.1 and is weight is great and he is part of teh family, any ideas or tips please? He goes ok but I want to keep improving as we all do i guess and improve my position on him, many thanks.

 

[sbloom]

So many possibilities, and choice of saddle will be part of the solution, but I'm a firm believer that horses are naturally pretty willing and forwards, if they are not it is pain, confusion, balance issues etc. I confess I set a high bar, but we need to get to the bottom of these things.

 

[AntiPuck]

I would also add in getting.someone knowledgeable to asses the foot balance and angles, as part of your investigations, as my horse really found her forward when her feet were fixed, she previously had negative plantar angles (I think that's what NPA stands for...) on all 4 feet, which is uncomfortable and puts undue strain on the body, then causing secondary discomfort - many horses seem to have this problem without people realising it, as most.of us trust farriers to tell us if something is wrong, and not all of them seem to know much about proper foot balance. I was totally ignorant of it until getting this horse.

 

[PONYPC]

So many possibilities, and choice of saddle will be part of the solution, but I'm a firm believer that horses are naturally pretty willing and forwards, if they are not it is pain, confusion, balance issues etc. I confess I set a high bar, but we need to get to the bottom of these things.

Thank you, he is forward on hacks, he is just is not keen on the school and napps at the gate at teh start. He has a dressage saddle as i struggled to find a GP that would fit his flat, short back and his fylde one has always fitted perfectly, it was fitted by Fylde themselves whom i had come down to London and it's checked regularly. He is very inteligent, too inteligent at time, when he knows what you want he is super willing, so it's mainly when we are in the school on our or own or with one or two other horses, in a group he is super forward in the school, this is issue, I try an mix up the schooling too to keep it interesting. I have been super conscious on balance and often practice no hands, light seat ect, and plenty of transitions.

 

[PONYPC]

Thank you, he is forward on hacks, he is just is not keen on the school and napps at the gate at teh start. He has a dressage saddle as i struggled to find a GP that would fit his flat, short back and his fylde one has always fitted perfectly, it was fitted by Fylde themselves whom i had come down to London and it's checked regularly. He is very inteligent, too inteligent at time, when he knows what you want he is super willing, so it's mainly when we are in the school on our or own or with one or two other horses, in a group he is super forward in the school, this is issue, I try an mix up the schooling too to keep it interesting. I have been super conscious on balance and often practice no hands, light seat ect, and plenty of transitions.

oh and the odd laesson on the lunge, brlliantbut scary at times

 

[Boulty]

I think what Steph is implying is that however well the saddle fits the horse it sounds like it might not be fitting you very well if you feel you’re struggling to apply your legs in the right place and that it may be worth trying some different brands (maybe with slightly different twists & differently placed stirrup bars?) to see if any of them help you out a bit more as it makes everything more difficult if you’re having to fight with the saddle rather than it helping you.

Would also second a vet & physio check for the horse just to see if he’s got any low level niggles.

If all clear would really actively try to make being in the school as fun as possible. Ie poles, jumps, obstacle courses & really reward him when he for does offer forwards.

If you’re not already riding with a schooling whip then you may find it helpful as a reinforcer for your legs. Ideally teach him what it means from the ground first but it might help you to sit a bit quieter if you’re not having to nag with your legs / work so hard to get him forwards

 

[PONYPC]

I think what Steph is implying is that however well the saddle fits the horse it sounds like it might not be fitting you very well if you feel you’re struggling to apply your legs in the right place and that it may be worth trying some different brands (maybe with slightly different twists & differently placed stirrup bars?) to see if any of them help you out a bit more as it makes everything more difficult if you’re having to fight with the saddle rather than it helping you.

Would also second a vet & physio check for the horse just to see if he’s got any low level niggles.

If all clear would really actively try to make being in the school as fun as possible. Ie poles, jumps, obstacle courses & really reward him when he for does offer forwards.

If you’re not already riding with a schooling whip then you may find it helpful as a reinforcer for your legs. Ideally teach him what it means from the ground first but it might help you to sit a bit quieter if you’re not having to nag with your legs / work so hard to get him forwards

i agree, thank you

 

[sbloom]

Thank you, he is forward on hacks, he is just is not keen on the school and napps at the gate at teh start. He has a dressage saddle as i struggled to find a GP that would fit his flat, short back and his fylde one has always fitted perfectly, it was fitted by Fylde themselves whom i had come down to London and it's checked regularly. He is very inteligent, too inteligent at time, when he knows what you want he is super willing, so it's mainly when we are in the school on our or own or with one or two other horses, in a group he is super forward in the school, this is issue, I try an mix up the schooling too to keep it interesting. I have been super conscious on balance and often practice no hands, light seat ect, and plenty of transitions.

I hear you, as I say, some would say I set an overly high bar. So often issues come to light in schooling before they do hacking. When adrenaline and other feel good stuff gets going then horses move better, they are the masters of masking, they need to be to escape predators.

You are doing plenty right which is actually why it points to something else. I will say that Fylde, amongst other saddle brands that have flat trees and often narrow twists, can be very hard on horses' backs, and I speak as a specialist in fitting natives for 14 years so I see a lot of them.

 

[sbloom]

Yes initially I meant the saddle fit for you. If you have the right saddles Connie's aren't that hard to fit, honestly, and GPs not a problem.

 

[holeymoley]

Also, learn to open your hip flexers. A lot of people have very tight ones. I had it drilled in to me from a young age and in return ride with a very long leg despite only being 5ft 2. In fact I actually struggle to ride short enough for xc jumping as it’s so out of the ordinary for me.

 

[Cortez]

How does he go when your instructor / trainer rides him? If it’s just a matter of you being more effective, then using a schooling whip will help him to be more responsive, obviously with your instructor supervising if you’re not confident in using one.

 

[PONYPC]

How does he go when your instructor / trainer rides him? If it’s just a matter of you being more effective, then using a schooling whip will help him to be more responsive, obviously with your instructor supervising if you’re not confident in using one.

Instructers have struggled to get him going, yes they definately have bettter balance, but all say havinga longer leg helps, when i say long leg, the styrups are about a foot longer for them than me.

 

[YourValentine]

Assuming he is physically fine, how strict are you about responses to the leg? I had a horse who was lazy in the arena, but fine out hacking etc, and be 100% clear that leg = forward made a real difference.

So I'd ask for trot, quietly once, more firmly the second time, and the third time was a proper kick and a slap with the stick. If he shoots off in canter or not a pretty trot doesn't matter let him go and the quietly bring him back to a nice trot.
And then do 100s of transitions being very clear that whe you say go, he goes. You have to be very strict with yourself to give clear aids, give him a chance before really kicking him forward. And critically however he responds let him go forward, don't pull him up too quickly or panic if you're cantering not trotting. You need to be clear that forward is the correct response.

It sounds like you are doing everything g else right with a quiet seat etc.

 

[Cortez]

Instructers have struggled to get him going, yes they definately have bettter balance, but all say havinga longer leg helps, when i say long leg, the styrups are about a foot longer for them than me.

The length of your leg isn't THAT important (having longer legs helps, this is true), it's all about him understanding and responding. The schooling whip is designed precisely for this purpose.

*Please don't kick.

 

[sbloom]

I shared this the other day, this is even outside of the box for me, but it's too easy to talk about better aiding etc when we really haven't got to the root of the problem. Emma Massingdale is a behaviourist, posting on energy in horses https://www.facebook.com/emmamassin...LE3wa7SpngfioSse6hNVz61HPpzQ2mS84xFLuUpAERjHl.

And another from Amy Skinner Horsemanship https://www.facebook.com/AmySkinner...3YiZUEa3Xb8aBaQdQ7Kt9Yu2atUTxvUJavqBvAwnPvG8l

 

[blitznbobs]

Leg on a horse is (should be) a signal
Not a strength thing. Are you sat with an independent seat in the middle of the saddle? If you are give one tiny squeeze with your legs snd release. If no action back up with schooling whip… and most importantly - LET HIM GO FORWARD at whatever speed he gives you if he f’s off let him for at least the first half of the school. If he doesnt go forward following this then try on a hack/ beach etc if he doesnt then go forward there is likely so
Pain reason for him not moving…

But lots of horses who are genuinely trained to go forward on a small aid scare the poo poo out of a lot of riders — and theyquickly train them not to do it by stopping the forward the second it starts

 

[Snow Falcon]

I re-schooled a lazy connie years ago. She had become completely dead to the leg through kicking. Her sides actually had rub marks where the childs boot had been in constant contact. Fat and switched off, poor girl. I just used seat and a squeeze, when she didn't respond I used schooling whip to send her forward. We hacked out using the same principles, did polework and jumping (which she loved) to have plenty of variety so she didn't get sour just schooling. Didn't take long for her to start enjoying being ridden again. As she slimmed down she got more forward too.

You say about having a light seat but are you actually using it? Classical training may help you.

 

[PONYPC]

The length of your leg isn't THAT important (having longer legs helps, this is true), it's all about him understanding and responding. The schooling whip is designed precisely for this purpose.

*Please don't kick.

Thank you, yes taking in the advice, i have reinforced my aids with my whip and yes i would never kick, I always trya nd keep my legs off to make aids as clear as possible.

 

[Rowreach]

Have you tested for muscle myopathy? Common in Connemaras.

 

[PONYPC]

I shared this the other day, this is even outside of the box for me, but it's too easy to talk about better aiding etc when we really haven't got to the root of the problem. Emma Massingdale is a behaviourist, posting on energy in horses https://www.facebook.com/emmamassin...LE3wa7SpngfioSse6hNVz61HPpzQ2mS84xFLuUpAERjHl.

And another from Amy Skinner Horsemanship https://www.facebook.com/AmySkinner...3YiZUEa3Xb8aBaQdQ7Kt9Yu2atUTxvUJavqBvAwnPvG8l

THanks, my first thought is, what am i doing wrong, not the horse, as a result my legs do seem mostly off now only making contatct for a signal, all good reading though many thanks

 

[sbloom]

THanks, my first thought is, what am i doing wrong, not the horse, as a result my legs do seem mostly off now only making contatct for a signal, all good reading though many thanks

Having a saddle that helps you get your leg on, whilst also stabilising your pelvis, will definitely help, but there are para riders that get horses going forwards who have no legs. Your instructors are having the same issue so it's not just your legs.

 

[rabatsa]

I watched Richard Maxwell work on a pony at the RDA national championships,a few years ago now, that had this problem. The ponies rider had come out of her dressage test in tears as the pony would not trot for her.

He used a wip wop rope and zero leg. When the RDA rider got back on 20 minutes later the problem had been solved. He did say that the pony may need the odd schooling session with the rope by the group helpers.

 

[Rowreach]

The trouble is, you can’t really solve a problem unless you know what’s causing it.

If the issue is there for different riders then it’s not about the length of their legs.

Nor is it about making the horse decide between not going forward or going forward because the potential consequences for it will beunpleasant if it doesn’t.

I’d be looking at a physical cause, and spending £30 straight away on a pssm1 hair test.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would rule out any physical issue first a pssm test is a good start then a vet workup to rule everything out, then if there is no pain it's a case of re training the pony to be sharper off a leg aid.

 

[tristar]

hi, if you can rule out any physical reasons.

how is the pony in the field? does it run about, alone or with the others, ie is it happy to move around. how fit it, if its not being worked as in WORKED it can`t be very fit, which will make it seem sluggish, is it overweight , even slightly, then has it ever been taught to move on from a light aid, if you doubt it you could try schooling it from the ground to start, if you have no knowledge of who broke it.

you could try for a couple weeks, leading it in hand and using the schooling whip at the same time on the place you would touch it when ridden while asking it verbally to walk on, then move onto trot, then walk, trot, walk halt, then from halt to trot, to confirm

if its not fit, lunging 2 x week, in big circles, which will tie in nicely with the verbal education and give a vast improvement in fitness, then if you can long rein it after lunging, for more confirmation of the verbal aids, and easy to run through the transitions.

it is an effort but you might enjoy it, improve your skills and it becomes very enjoyable with developing the relationship and understanding with the pony, i have done this, now the horse just moves away from a whisper of the leg.

 

[Cortez]

It's always difficult (impossible actually) to diagnose a riding/training problem without seeing the horse and rider in front of you, and even then it may take several sessions and a good look at all the extraneous factors (saddle, shoeing, musculature, health) to see what is going on. All we can do on an Internet forum is take a stab at what it sounds like, and generally if horses are happy to do something in some circumstances that they don't feel like doing in others it is a communication problem, i.e. training.

If pony is happy out hacking and in the field, but unresponsive in the arena then it sounds like miscommunication and better training should be applied. A good instructor should be able to tell you if they suspect a physical problem.

 

[LaurenBay]

If the Horse is like it for everyone I would look at physical issues first.

If the Horse is only like it for you, then I would get a decent instructor ands go back to basics.

I found my share Horse really lazy, however it was just for me. I have a good instructor and within 20 minutes, we are a completely different pair and I no longer find the Horse lazy.

 

[Hallo2012]

Have you tested for muscle myopathy? Common in Connemaras.

also my first thought.....

 

[Rowreach]

It's always difficult (impossible actually) to diagnose a riding/training problem without seeing the horse and rider in front of you, and even then it may take several sessions and a good look at all the extraneous factors (saddle, shoeing, musculature, health) to see what is going on. All we can do on an Internet forum is take a stab at what it sounds like, and generally if horses are happy to do something in some circumstances that they don't feel like doing in others it is a communication problem, i.e. training.

If pony is happy out hacking and in the field, but unresponsive in the arena then it sounds like miscommunication and better training should be applied. A good instructor should be able to tell you if they suspect a physical problem.

I've often found that physical issues manifest in an arena where the horse has to go round corners and circle, but may not show up on straight line hacks or when it's free to move whatever direction it wants in the field. Not to mention the effect that an arena surface can have on movement.

 

[sbloom]

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