To chiffney or not to chiffney this is the question!!

As with everything, chifneys can be bad in the wrong hands. It's not just big strong horses that are a handful - I have a 15'3 TB that can be difficult to handle. He'll often be on two legs being led to the field and back. However in every other way he's a doddle. He is led in a bridle as he's on full livery and a few members of staff are handling him. If your horse will stand at the gateway to allow you to take a bridle/ chifney on then maybe a few days of being led in one may be the answer. However if he's desperate to go once you've opened the gate they can be difficult to get off quickly - especially if he's excited and his head is being held high. Is there anyone with experience of a chifney around to give you a hand? Have you thought of a Be-Nice headcollar? Doesn't do much for mine as I'm probably not using it properly but some people I know swear by them. Where in Cheshire are you? I have a chifney if you would like to borrow it.
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when you tried the bridle did you have a lunge line or just the reins to lead from?if you only had reins/normal lead rope it would make it very hard to hold him if he deceided to run.
a longer rope is easier, try to get him at an angle(45) to you before pulling really hard back on him(against a halter)-if he is charging straight away from you or too close you wont be strong enough as he will have his entire weight behind him.
personally i would stick a bridle on and lead off the lunge line so if he tries to run off you can just lunge him and lunge until he is tired and he comes meekly.
they will learn its much easier to just come in than be lunged each time,as long as you are consistant.
i had a pony on loan who i had to use a chiffney for at first-she was only 14.1h but VERY naughty.she would rear.
the owners used to actually climb over the stable door as she would just bolt out otherwise!she had been let to run riot for 3 years so it was hard work getting her manners back.(i used to put the headcollar on over the door with the rope tied inside the stable and just open the door and leave it open so she learnt she couldnt just run out.taught her to back away from the door to let me in with an brolly lol)
she was awful to catch too so i walked her down in the field first and spent lots of time fussing her and making her good to actualy get hold of, then with the leading the first few weeks i led off the chifney(with normal headcollar on too) and then bridle wioth lunge line and then headcollar with lunge line on.
she soon decided it was easier to behave and she had no reason NOT to want to come in.took about 2months and leading her in and out once or twice a day.
 
My God I seem to have opened up a rather large can of worms and am now a little confused!! I'm thinking I'll try the electric fence aropund the gateway and a pressure headcollar first. I have a feeling it won't work as he blasts off and will probably take the lunge line, fence and some of the skin off my hand with him! Thanks S_V for your offer if all else fails I will certainly like to take you up on your offer. I am near Tarporley.
 
Bung a chifney in it's gob and attach a lunge line to start with.

It's a simple device and you sound sensible , it's acutally rather hard to go wrong.

Just remeber it's not something you hang onto, you don't keep a contact, line is loose when he behaves and a quick short tug when he tries to bog off. They soon learn.
 
Stick a chiffney on him. My old 14.1 pony used to behave in exactly the same way, and she hurt me quite badly on more than one occasion. She quickly learnt to respect the chiffney, to the point that soon we didnt need to use it every time.
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Not wanting to be controversial here *puts on tin hat* but I understand that bargy unruly horses/leading difficulties are among the problems that some NH/IH trainers can be very good at helping to sort out...

I don't agree with them on everything, but I've heard endless accounts of how, for example, Kelly Marks's 'Recommended Associates' have helped owners to sort out this kind of problem with their horses.

Just a thought!

(I have no objection to chiffneys - my stally always wears one for stud duties, and in the right hands they do no harm. But as others have said, they can be awkward to remove once you get to the field, if the horse is trying to tank off.)

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Could an RA not help train your stallion to cover politely with a normal bit, not a Chifney?
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S
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Fair point! He's not actually bargy or impolite, though, and does respect the Chiffney, so the Stud Manager prefers this. As she and her experienced staff are the ones doing the handling, I tend to respect her views on which methods are best. They are experts so the Chiffney does no harm to my boy.
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Why do u want to use a chiffney on ur horse? And was it actually needed when loading the horse when u first bought him? You need to make sure u know how to use it correctly and that the horse actually needs one b4 u go down that road i think.
 
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Why do u want to use a chiffney on ur horse? And was it actually needed when loading the horse when u first bought him? You need to make sure u know how to use it correctly and that the horse actually needs one b4 u go down that road i think.

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What, me? Which horse? Do I? Who are you?
I do know how to use a chifney....What road?
I knew I did too many drugs when young.
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S
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[ QUOTE ]

Could an RA not help train your stallion to cover politely with a normal bit, not a Chifney?
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S
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Fair point! He's not actually bargy or impolite, though, and does respect the Chiffney, so the Stud Manager prefers this. As she and her experienced staff are the ones doing the handling, I tend to respect her views on which methods are best. They are experts so the Chiffney does no harm to my boy.
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In my opinion and experience, a Chifney is an unusual choice for a stallion covering.
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It is meant to come into play, as you know, when the angle of the horse changes...for example, it works well with rearers. Now in covering a mare, the angle, I would have said (without going into the gory details
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) would be similar to a rearer, meaning the stud handlers would always be using the severe Chifney action, when using the bit to guide your boy?
Explain please!
S
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In my opinion and experience, a Chifney is an unusual choice for a stallion covering.
confused.gif
It is meant to come into play, as you know, when the angle of the horse changes...for example, it works well with rearers. Now in covering a mare, the angle, I would have said (without going into the gory details
laugh.gif
) would be similar to a rearer, meaning the stud handlers would always be using the severe Chifney action, when using the bit to guide your boy?
Explain please!
S
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Unless things have changed with this particular stallion I believe he is AI only, so the only thing he has to get excited about is his dummy mare, which might change things a bit
 
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I put my horse in a chiffney as soon as he started to think it was fun to bolt through the field that I had to lead him through to get to his. He wore it twice and has never worn it since! You should have seen his face the first time it came into action, he couldn't understand why his 10 stone mother could all of sudden stop him! Tried once more to bolt and decided it wasn't a good idea!
He was too big, strong and ignorant and being handle by my disabled, nervous mother for me to take risks.
Now the lead rope over the nose is enough to remind him of his manners if he is feeling full of himself.

I can just imagine his reaction to being whacked by a pipe, buck, fart and bolt, chiffney or no chiffney!
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Not saying it's a bad idea for all horses, but Hen is pertrified of noises like that!
 
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In my opinion and experience, a Chifney is an unusual choice for a stallion covering.
confused.gif
It is meant to come into play, as you know, when the angle of the horse changes...for example, it works well with rearers. Now in covering a mare, the angle, I would have said (without going into the gory details
laugh.gif
) would be similar to a rearer, meaning the stud handlers would always be using the severe Chifney action, when using the bit to guide your boy?
Explain please!
S
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Unless things have changed with this particular stallion I believe he is AI only, so the only thing he has to get excited about is his dummy mare, which might change things a bit

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So if it is only AI collected using an AV and a dummy mare, why on earth do they need to use a Chifney?
I am even more confused.
But thanks for trying.
S
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I don't have a chifney, but I do have a stallion who quite likes to walk across the yard on his back legs and an arab mare who is an superior madam and will barge through anyone, with a plain halter on.

Chain across the nose and the pair of them are lambs, never have to touch it, forget the chain and it's back to playing silly buggers.

If I had a huge horse trying to play kites with me I would have no hesitation in using whatever it took to get his attention, be it chifney, chain, bridle whatever reminded him of his manners. If they cripple me, OH will send them to the nearest auction yard without a minutes hesitation.
 
Sorry shilasdair was actually replying to original poster's question.... new here so not sure if im doing everything right! Sorry for confusion! x
 
I guess a chifney is a possibilty, IF your horse will be a good boy and stand to let you put it on when he's in the field ready to be brought in. MY murderous little ****! certainly wouldn't.

I use a Stephen's headcollar. Darned expensive to buy but priceless when you need one. My horse will happily put his nose into the ring when we're in the field and let me put the headcollar on, and it only takes a weany tug on it to remind him who's boss. Yesterday I left it in my other car and my father came down to the yard with me. Asked him to hold the horse (wearing just its normal leather headcollar) for a couple of seconds standing in the yard and the horse just pushed through the pressure on the noseband and barged off. Dragging my father with him. Luckily I grabbed the horse in time, and told him wots wot, but it genuinely proved to me that for this particular horse the Stephen's headcollar is worth its weight in gold.

I had to buy a new one when I was looking for one (got mine on eBay for the bargain price of £130) but if you could find a second hand one.....
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Could an RA not help train your stallion to cover politely with a normal bit, not a Chifney?
tongue.gif

S
grin.gif


Fair point! He's not actually bargy or impolite, though, and does respect the Chiffney, so the Stud Manager prefers this. As she and her experienced staff are the ones doing the handling, I tend to respect her views on which methods are best. They are experts so the Chiffney does no harm to my boy.
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion and experience, a Chifney is an unusual choice for a stallion covering.
confused.gif
It is meant to come into play, as you know, when the angle of the horse changes...for example, it works well with rearers. Now in covering a mare, the angle, I would have said (without going into the gory details
laugh.gif
) would be similar to a rearer, meaning the stud handlers would always be using the severe Chifney action, when using the bit to guide your boy?
Explain please!
S
grin.gif


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Funnily enough, I asked the SM exactly this question! Surely if a Chifney is used mainly for rearers, it is not appropriate for a stallion covering? (Whether he's covering a real mare or a dummy makes no difference - either in the position or the level of excitement!) I asked wouldn't it put him off standing up to cover, or hurt him when he did so?

She took my point in principle, but still insisted that the Chifney was the most effective method - and that if used properly (which she's been doing for many, many years) it does not interfere with the stallion standing up to mount the mare/dummy. I have watched her doing all the stud work with my boy, and I have to admit that he does seem perfectly happy with the Chifney - doesn't seem to bother him and certainly doesn't put him off, or hurt him in any way (he's a big drama queen and would certainly let us know if it did hurt)!

I suppose she must just be very skilled.

Edited to add: When I've watched, she doesn't seem to use the bit to 'guide' him. He's so proficient at all this now that when he sees the dummy he knows exactly what to do, so the actual mounting and covering is done on a loose rein. The Chifney just helps to prevent him going up or being unruly on his way to the dummy.
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In my opinion and experience, a Chifney is an unusual choice for a stallion covering.
confused.gif
It is meant to come into play, as you know, when the angle of the horse changes...for example, it works well with rearers. Now in covering a mare, the angle, I would have said (without going into the gory details
laugh.gif
) would be similar to a rearer, meaning the stud handlers would always be using the severe Chifney action, when using the bit to guide your boy?
Explain please!
S
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Unless things have changed with this particular stallion I believe he is AI only, so the only thing he has to get excited about is his dummy mare, which might change things a bit

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Sue you are quite right, he does only do AI. But stallions would not cover dummy mares unless they thought it was the real thing, so the level of excitement is much the same - Tobago is certainly very keen on his dummy mare, which we have named Trinidad, for obvious reasons!
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i find this really odd that you are having to "explain" yourself here, htobago......

is it, really, anybody's business how your boy gets his "fill"?????

you don't need to justify it..............

i know for one, that i wouldn't!
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Oh JM07 I don't mind - I am sure Shilasdair was just genuinely curious as to why a Chifney was used, when it does seem illogical. (As I said, I was confused about this as well and asked Tobago's Stud Manager the same question!) I really don't think Shils was getting at me or anything.
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