To insure or not?

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Gerry-Boy

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I wasn't going to but my trainer keeps pushing me towards insuring Hugo.

Reasons I'm reluctant is that he's an 8 year old heavy cob and in my opinion these are generally quite a healthy breed. He's only used for leisure riding, nothing competitive.
Plus I've heard from many people having problems when they want the insurance to actually pay out.

Are your horses insured?

Edit: we do of course have liability cover with BHS, I'm only asking about health insurance.
 
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If you can cover the basic £4.5 - 5k that you get for vets fees cover (can be more, depending on company & level of insurance) then no problem. Some operations/care can mount to much higher than this.
If you can also afford to replace horse (hard to sy, but necessary), then thats ok too.

Worst case scenario, is that you spend say £6k on operation & after care, then find you need to find another £5k+ to replace horse as yours is pts or doesn't recover - do you have the funds?

You definately should have a 3rd party insurance, which would come as part of the BHS full membership and others like WHW, but otherwise its a personal choice.

I don't insure mine, but thats a personal choice & assisted by savings/card, should I require emergency funds.
 
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Cobs are generally quite robust, but they are still horses and therefore inherently suicidal. I would always insure.
 
TFF is right. If you can afford to pay for any care he requires then third party only should do you fine. I have always insured for vets fees and it gives peace of mind for me because I would struggle to access the potentially thousands of pounds I may need for advanced treatment. As always, your decision should be driven by what you would need to do in order to provide your horse with everything he needs.
 
I don't ensure either - I keep an emergency savings account for vets bills instead. I have third party via the Country side alliance.

You will here positive and negative experiences of insurance - I had a horse euthanized on vets recommendation as was a wobbler, but although insured for death/loss of use, the insurers wouldn't pay out as said the horse wasn't 'in pain' (the fact it was unrideable and could have gone down in the field at any time and get stuck was irrelevant/!). I also had another horse that on its vetting had a comment over slightly flat front feet - every company I tried to insure him with refused to insure his entire front legs because of that, so saw insurance as a waste of time (and the horse never had a days lameness in the 6 yrs of ownership!)

I think the crux of it is whether you can afford a large vets bill - if you can then I wouldn't bother, but if it is easier to spend smaller amounts on monthly premiums in the hope they pay out, then insure. The NFU have a good reputation for paying out but they are expensive.
 
Self insure - put the amount of the monthly premium into a separate account (ideally with interest) every month. If you need funds it is there, if you don't you still have it after horse has long gone. And then get WHW or BHS membership for the public liability insurance that come with it
 
I have my riding cob insured but not the companions. My cob has had joint problems and sarcoids so I've made a couple of big claims. If you need the horse for riding I'd insure since it speeds up any diagnosis and treatment if money is no object. I don't think you'd ever regret insuring, but might if you didn't.
 
Well you win some you lose some. When my 7yr old Welsh d died of EGS it cost about 1500 in the vets (that was for about 12 hours of intensive care and PTS. It took her quickly. Had she kept going I wouldn't have called it quits until the same point so it could easily have been many k) and she cost me 1500 to buy but by that point she was worth at least 4K (and priceless to me). I think insure for the first year unless you can afford financially and emotionally to write the horse off or you are rich. I've insured plenty others and never made a claim but for that one horse being insured would have helped because I would have sent her to the Dick vet and at least known I did all I could. I know the outcome wouldn't have changed BUT in my head, it would be better.
 
Most policies would cover about £5k of vet bills. Unless something very unpleasant and dramatic happened I wouldn't plan on an insurance policy paying out the replacement value of a horse that had to be PTS, or which I decided to PTS for humane reasons. So if you can stick £5k+ in a bank account on a 'just in case' basis, you could probably save yourself the premiums. But a sensible heavyweight cob could cost you just as much as a finer horse if it gets ill or injured, and just read the posts on here, plenty of them do, in a variety of creative and sometimes expensive ways!
 
We don't insure horses or dogs. We can afford any vet bills that we are likely to agree to - a credit card can be useful for that. BUT we have taken the decision that we will not put our horses through invasive surgery or prolonged box rest. My vet did say a few years ago that she would not recommend colic surgery for my Draft mare, as she is too big and too old. I had a sarcoid removed from my Cob's face a couple of years ago, by my vet at a cost of about £300, for 2 visits and a biopsy and we took the stitches out ourselves.

I have had/heard about far too many incidents where there have been problems with insurance companies.

I don't see what your arrangements have to do with your trainer and I would refuse to discuss financial arrangements with her.
 
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I have insured my new horse, in case she turns out to be one of those who is always injuring herself. My others are now older, so I at any vets bills for them. I currently have a huge one to pay for a field accident, the mare hasn't been insured for over 10 years, so i'm actually about even on that! I would say put the money into an account. I find it odd your trainer is persisting, I would have thought a quick are you aren't you, and leave it at that!
 
Very mixed messages here, really reflects how I feel about this.

I'm not very experienced with horse ownership and my horses live with me so if anything goes wrong I cannot rely on my expertise - I'd have to get the vet out.

But my understanding is that the insurance wouldn't cover these checks anyway, only the potential surgeries or pts.

The YO where I previously was was against insurances on the basis that if you have to spend that much money on fixing the horse you might as well pts it and get another one.
Very business-y thinking which obviously I don't share as my horse is my baby and not something easy to replace.

I'll probably look into a few insurances and get some quotes - at the moment I have no idea about the monthly cost of that.

Thank you very much all for your opinions.
 
Gerry-Boy said:
I wasn't going to but my trainer keeps pushing me towards insuring Hugo.

Reasons I'm reluctant is that he's an 8 year old heavy cob and in my opinion these are generally quite a healthy breed. He's only used for leisure riding, nothing competitive.
Plus I've heard from many people having problems when they want the insurance to actually pay out.

Are your horses insured?

Edit: we do of course have liability cover with BHS, I'm only asking about health insurance.
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I have some insured or should I say re insured after having and still having a vet bank account. My pony who colic's I set a bank acc for and all the money my sharer pays goes into that along with a direct debit from my acc so if any colic surgery or anything crops up i should have some to cover it.

Really depends on the horse how accident prone it is, how your finances is, what you do with him or her. If you set up a bank acc or if you have moneies to afford anything eventualities when they crop up.

Really you need to think what you can afford as to whether you insure or not
 
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I'm currently wondering whether to renew my policy on my 16yr old gelding. His retired (and mostly excluded) mate hasn't been insured for several years, so far so good, but my riding horse has had 2 big claims in 3 years. First was an infected puncture wound so a one-off, then last year he developed COPD, which will be excluded in a few weeks. Renewal will cost over £500 for pretty basic cover, there's a big excess and now 25% on top of excess because of his age. I'm dithering, but since I'm not in a position to pay a big bill, I'll probably end up renewing.
 
As others have said, I think this is entirely dependant on you own personal circumstances.
I have insurance, but will pay anything under approx. £1000 myself rather than claim. I cant see into the future and if my financial situation were to ever change I wouldn't want being uninsured to be an additional worry on top of whatever medical treatment my horse required. eg. if he were to be involved in a freak accident and needed urgent veterinary care, I wouldn't want my financial situation to be at the forefront of my mind, id like to be in a situation where his needs and treatment can come before anything else.

Additionally, I'm sure not all insurance companies are fraudsters looking for any reason not to pay out. Don't get me wrong, it obviously can happen. But ive always found insurance companies pay out when required.
 
It's your horse, get some quotes, then see what your options are before you decide. Cons are just as likely to get injured/ ill. I insure mine. My girl has had 3 claims in 4 years. 2 of these reached the maximum limit of £5000, one was for about £1000. In so glad I had the insurance. I laugh when people say that they put the monthly payment in an account to cover vets fees, how can it possibly? My monthly payment is £32. It would take years to get to £5000 and how do you know your horse won't be injured one month into your plan?
 
Gerry-Boy said:
Very mixed messages here, really reflects how I feel about this.

I'm not very experienced with horse ownership and my horses live with me so if anything goes wrong I cannot rely on my expertise - I'd have to get the vet out.

But my understanding is that the insurance wouldn't cover these checks anyway, only the potential surgeries or pts.

The YO where I previously was was against insurances on the basis that if you have to spend that much money on fixing the horse you might as well pts it and get another one.
Very business-y thinking which obviously I don't share as my horse is my baby and not something easy to replace.

I'll probably look into a few insurances and get some quotes - at the moment I have no idea about the monthly cost of that.

Thank you very much all for your opinions.
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How long have you had the horse? Bear in mind that some companies will ask you to 5 stage if you have had the horse a while, and if that flags anything it will be classed as pre existing and excluded. Some people are sneaky and only insure if/when they suspect a problem. Reputable Companies are starting to put a stop to this.

The main things to consider are really your attitude to risk, how much money you can lay your hands on in an emergency or are prepared to take credit card debt on, and to what extent you would want to treat your horse if he were ill / injured.

I think it matters not that he is a leisure cob - they can still have colic, allergies, accidents and I also see a lot of these heavier types with arthritis quite early.

All policies have an excess, usually in the £150-300 type of region, so the day to day scrapes and minor stuff you wouldn't be claiming on anyway. But the biggies can add up very quickly and once you are on the path it can snowball quite quickly.

The crux of the matter is, worst case scenario, can you/would you find 5+ K or would you be at peace with yourself to PTS. If the answer is no, then insure
 
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Gypley said:
As others have said, I think this is entirely dependant on you own personal circumstances.
I have insurance, but will pay anything under approx. £1000 myself rather than claim. I cant see into the future and if my financial situation were to ever change I wouldn't want being uninsured to be an additional worry on top of whatever medical treatment my horse required. eg. if he were to be involved in a freak accident and needed urgent veterinary care, I wouldn't want my financial situation to be at the forefront of my mind, id like to be in a situation where his needs and treatment can come before anything else.

Additionally, I'm sure not all insurance companies are fraudsters looking for any reason not to pay out. Don't get me wrong, it obviously can happen. But ive always found insurance companies pay out when required.
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Why don't you claim for the smaller amounts? That's what insurance is for. Your horse will still be excluded for these issues in the future even if you haven't claimed, so it doesn't make sense not to claim.
 
When I had to have my much loved boy pts the insurer wouldn't pay for this or his loss value as he didn't meet BEVA guidelines for being pts. As others have indicated, you may not want to wait until that stage before making a decision. You need to look at this part carefully as a horse value of, say, £3000 significantly increases your premium.

I also worked out that over 8 years of paying premiums, 1xlaminitis, lameness/arthritis, a few relatively minor injuries and one major surgical intervention involving hospitalisation NFU were still quids in. BUT all the major expense came in the last year of his life (he was 18) and I would have struggled to meet the cost in a short space of time.

As a result I am now insured for vet fees but horses value is as low as they would accept so I don't pay premium for something they are unlikely to pay out for anyway, if you see what I mean.

I have found NFU very good on the whole. They paid out for a condition my new mare had just over a month after I got her. It was something that could not have been picked up on a vetting
 
teddypops said:
Why don't you claim for the smaller amounts? That's what insurance is for. Your horse will still be excluded for these issues in the future even if you haven't claimed, so it doesn't make sense not to claim.
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To be completely honest, Ive never really thought about it like that! Naively, I don't think I've ever realised that not claiming would still potentially result in exclusions. I've always just paid rather than fuss with insurance, but can see I'm totally wasting my money in paying! Luckily, I've only had 2 vet bills that I've paid myself together totalling about £750, so not the end of the world. Lesson learnt!!
 
Having just paid out nearly 4K for my heavy "robust" cob, I would say insure. He wasn't insured due to his age, but always was in the past.
 
Gypley said:
To be completely honest, Ive never really thought about it like that! Naively, I don't think I've ever realised that not claiming would still potentially result in exclusions. I've always just paid rather than fuss with insurance, but can see I'm totally wasting my money in paying! Luckily, I've only had 2 vet bills that I've paid myself together totalling about £750, so not the end of the world. Lesson learnt!!
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you won't be the only one, my old YO was the same and only claimed on her insurance for a big bill but would pay smaller ones herself. Madness once you think about it :lol:
I claim as soon as it goes over the excess.

I have one insured, and one not - the one who is not insured any longer has had her fair share of claims over the years and now the exclusions are such that there isn't a lot left that is covered. She is 20, fairly high mileage - going well still but tbh I don't think I'd put her through another big op.

The one who is now insured, wasn't covered until I was sure she was worth it! She was a gift horse and quite worthless in the beginning, now she is training towards advanced (:eek3:) and priceless to me.

OP, if/when you look for quotes do get some feedback around what elements of the cover are worth it for your situation, don't assume you need it all. Mine has a relatively low sum insured as I am primarily after vets fees cover and I'd buy a cheap horse to replace if the worst happened so don't need to pay more cover for a high value horse. Loss of use is hard to claim for and bumps the premiums up etc.
 
I've never insured my own horses. If they need the vet, we pay the vet. If the treatment is hugely expensive we would PTS. Insurance is largely the reason why veterinary treatments are so much more expensive, complicated and invasive in the UK compared to where I live, although it is creeping in here too.
 
Cortez said:
I've never insured my own horses. If they need the vet, we pay the vet. If the treatment is hugely expensive we would PTS. Insurance is largely the reason why veterinary treatments are so much more expensive, complicated and invasive in the UK compared to where I live, although it is creeping in here too.
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I agree with this. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. My limited but sad experience is that the more expensive and complicated stuff doesn't always turn out the way you are led to believe it will
 
I would insure, personally, unless you have a decent sized pot of gold available! I've only ever had two that weren't insured - one was a 22 year old companion, who went down with raging colic, and cost me £1300 - then a few years later, he had an extensive neck would that cost me another £600.
The little pony that I had to have pts on Saturday wasn't insured either, and I suspect I'm looking at a bill in the region of £700 for him. I have considered selling my body, but unfortunately, I don't think anyone would want it!
 
Unless you can put your hands immediately on £7k then insure. Go with a good, reputable company and you won't have a problem.

I've had cobs and they're just as likely to injury, damage or illness as anything else.
 
Now that I have picked myself up off the floor after laughing at the idea of cobs being robust I will earnestly BEG you to insure! I have two heavy cobs. Both bought as young horses after sailing through five stage vettings. The old one is now 24, in the last 17 and half years he has had 360 veterinary consultations, which will rise to 361 tomorrow when he goes to see the dermatologist at a cost of £500-£1,000 depending on what they decide to do to him. My vets assure me that I do not have Munchausen by proxy! He has been insured with Pet Plan since purchase and they have paid well over ten thousand pounds over the years for him. He has a list of problems as long as your arm and a long list of exclusions. I am so glad he was insured. Next year he will go onto the veteran policy as he will be 25. The young one was bought as a 4 year old in 2015. Trying to save money I insured him on Pet Plan's cheaper policy which only pays £3,500 vets bills per claim and with a £500 excess. Last year he was diagnosed with hock arthritis which has proved resistant to treatment and he has now run out of money under the insurance so I really wish I had put him on the full policy the same as my older horse. Pet Plan have paid out without question on every claim I have ever made and over the years I have saved a fortune by being insured, as well as having the peace of mind. When I renew my policy for the younger horse in July I am going to upgrade him to the full policy. Heavy cobs are particularly prone to bone spavin and skin problems. Their sensible nature may make them less likely to get silly field injuries but they are still horses and can just as easily get other problems like any other horse. I would always recommend insurance and am so grateful that my boys are covered.
 
Cortez said:
I've never insured my own horses. If they need the vet, we pay the vet. If the treatment is hugely expensive we would PTS. Insurance is largely the reason why veterinary treatments are so much more expensive, complicated and invasive in the UK compared to where I live, although it is creeping in here too.
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My pony had a few sarcoids, treatment came to about £6000. Insurance paid £5000 of it. No way would I put a healthy young horse down for something like this!
 
My two were insured until 17, then the premiums shot up and the level of cover plummeted so I stopped. I've paid the £100 the insurance was costing me into a self insurance fund.

I had no need to use it until last year when one needed about £2500 of diagnostics and treatment including a stay in hospital. At the very least I would do this but for an 8 year old with (I assume from your "robust" comment) no previous conditions and not doing too much insurance probably wouldn't be too expensive. As others have said, insuring for death isn't always worth it but I think cover for vet fees is useful unless you already have money set aside and either access to a credit card or the sort of credit rating that means you can get one in a matter of days if you need to.

Each of mine had a couple of fairly substantial claims which probably mean I got out about the same as I put in. I've been lucky so far that I've only had to dip into the emergency fund once so I'm up but as they're both 21 it's likely to get more expensive from now on.
 
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