Annagain
Well-Known Member
You can't win more than one team medal. You can win more than one individual.
Tokyo Showjumping thread
- Thread starter Bellaboo18
- Start date
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
No, but I mean his round today still stands whereas an instant E under blood rule wipes you from the records. I do think there's a difference between that and a bleeding spur mark. It's happened spontaneously.
teapot
Well-Known Member
But there are only six competitions, which was Kat's point. We did five out of six at London (I think that's what the Beeb said, could be wrong) so it would be incredible to get a medal in all six competitions. Not sure any other sport has achieved that so far...
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Kat
Well-Known Member
I meant one medal per competition.
So far we have one one medal for individual dressage, one for team dressage, one for individual eventing, one for team eventing and one for individual sj. So just one more required to have been represented on the podium in each event.
Kat
Well-Known Member
Exactly if you eliminate someone for a horse getting a nosebleed that is spontaneous and not related to the riders actions where do you draw the line? Would you eliminate a rider because their horse had an over reach or brushing injury?
Kat
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that in the middle of a fast paced showjumping round it would be fair to expect a rider to notice a nosebleed, realise what is going on and pull up or to punish them for not doing so.
If after the round the horse is vet checked and an innocuous cause is found then no reason not to let their score stand. If a cause is found that indicates doping or abuse then action can be taken under those rules.
Looking at the photos now I'm not sure how Cian could have known what was going on. I didn't spot it watching on my small screen and if it had been a dark horse I'm not sure many would have noticed. Certainly when my mare had a nosebleed I only noticed when she wiped her nose on me, as the blood wasn't obvious on her black nostril and it wasn't heavy. I saw someone else's horse have a nosebleed while going cross country and she didn't know what was going on until people on the ground alerted her.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Agree with this, we're talking a round of 88 seconds, 1min and 28 seconds - that's nothing in a competitive focussed environment.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
I doubt you would notice. I am torn on this one but still think I'd go for elimination...
If it was the final round and he'd won, imagine the uproar. I'm thinking of public perception really.
I know its harsh on the rider but think that's the way I'm leaning.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
I think it's a horse welfare thing, just the same as a spur mark really. Not actually inflicted by the rider, no, but any nosebleed in a horse has a cause, and both nostrils definitely suggests something more serious than a burst capillary.
It was perfectly obvious to anyone watching that there was a bleed, and it's not like the middle of a race in a pack of horses travelling at 40mph, there's plenty of opportunity for the bell to be rung and the round to be stopped.
Sh1t happens, horse welfare to me is paramount and trumps getting a score in a competition.
It was perfectly obvious to anyone watching that there was a bleed, and it's not like the middle of a race in a pack of horses travelling at 40mph, there's plenty of opportunity for the bell to be rung and the round to be stopped.
Sh1t happens, horse welfare to me is paramount and trumps getting a score in a competition.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
well i was watching on my tv and didnt notice
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Ok, but I did, it was one nostril first and then the other, so I am pretty sure that all the officials and the people at ringside would have done.
Even the dreadful Dicky Vaughan noticed and commented that there was a problem.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
So the latest is that Cian has been given the go ahead to jump in the teams but has decided, in the interest of Kilkenny, to pull out.
Which is imo an admirable (and the right) decision.
Which is imo an admirable (and the right) decision.
Season’s Bleatings
Well-Known Member
Yep I posted about that a wee while ago. Definitely a sensible decision and his video seemed really sincere! Fingers crossed the Irish do well in the team comp!
Supertrooper
Well-Known Member
I’ll never forget at badminton when I think a french rider and horse snapped one of the flags, horse was staked in his abdominal area and the horse just carried on galloping absolutely pouring blood, rider didn’t know, how could he and it was only the crowd screaming and screaming and the marshalls that alerted him
It was an awful awful thing to watch and the horse didn’t make it but if that guy didn’t notice you almost certainly wouldn’t notice a much smaller nose bleed
Cieran has done the absolute right thing by saving the horse for another day and has rightly put the horse first
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
I've had a bleeder racing and another team chasing. You do notice because the blood spray comes back at you and hits your hands and your knees, and sometimes your face.
Slightly different show jumping when you are going slower, sitting up more, and concentrating on the fences coming at you in short order.
Slightly different show jumping when you are going slower, sitting up more, and concentrating on the fences coming at you in short order.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
yeah this was where i was coming from with it.
I fully support the blood rule as it is written and i think it's totally correct that riders get eliminated under that rule, however to me, this felt like the right way round. The french horse at Badminton was a bit different as that was a fatal injury. Kudos to Cian for his decision.
meggymoo
Well-Known Member
Bit late now todays is over, but I was following on my laptop too.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Ooh Harry is back in the team comp.
https://www.britishequestrian.org.u...5j5iVmRv-AIwMD3E7BXr4voUO3x0YIw7VXoz-NnDzobmY
https://www.britishequestrian.org.u...5j5iVmRv-AIwMD3E7BXr4voUO3x0YIw7VXoz-NnDzobmY
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
Oh how gutting for Scott. Absolutely the right decision, there’s always another day but very disappointing. If Harry can jump like he did on the first day, we are still in a very strong position for a medal.
Jeni the dragon
Well-Known Member
Such a shame for Scott!
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
Gutted for Scott! It's just not been his Olympics.
My gut tells me that's our team medal gone but I hope I'm wrong ?
My gut tells me that's our team medal gone but I hope I'm wrong ?
humblepie
Well-Known Member
Lol "all the garms" that are needed for a horse and "she’s no stranger to British royalty given she has competed at the Royal Windsor Horse Show on the Queen’s estate". Gosh that means I (and many others on here) are no stranger to British royalty either. Off to check out my tiara collection.
Annagain
Well-Known Member
I've not competed there but I have been to the show and to Gatcombe. Also, when I was grooming for a friend at a BE event, Zara was parked next door and in the dressage arena before her. As she came out, I told her her test was lovely (it was). My friend still beat her though (friend was in her 30th + novice on her 15 yr old, Zara was riding a 6yr old in its first!) That must mean I'm practically part of the Royal family mustn't it?
humblepie
Well-Known Member
Definitely. I bow before you.
Elf On A Shelf
...
OK bleeding in racehorses and high performance horses is a relatively common thing. It is not man made to an extent so no need to disqualify for it. It does affect a horses performance but it depends on how bad the bleed is and where it happens in the competition. A show jumper would doubtfully notice going round if their horse had a nosebleed as they can't see their nostrils unless their horse jumps like a spasticated giraffe. You generally don't go fast enough for it to come back at you and there simply isn't enough time for the bleed to process to the stage it would anyway. Some horses are unaffected by nosebleeds - Tiger Roll won the Grand National with a nosebleed, he bled at some point during the first circuit, still jumped the 2nd circuit and won. Some horses it affects almost instantly. But it would still take approx 30seconds for the horse to feel different to the rider from the moment the bleed started.
If the blood is bright bright red then it has generally come from the lungs as it is full of fresh oxygen. The darker the blood the further away from the lungs the bleed is. Most horses burst a blood vessel or 2 in the pipes going up the head from the nostril which is probably what this horse has done. Some horses bleed because they have banged their head and again have disturbed the blood vessels causing them to rupture when put under pressure.
There is an old saying in racing - a horse can't bleed twice in 7 days. So many people with known breeders would gallop the arse off of them 5 days before a race. If the horse didn't bleed that day you would do it again the next day and sure enough the horse would bleed. Very rarely did that horse then bleed in its race a few days later. We used to burst Jeff before he ran. He won 5 races this way and never bled in one of them.
If the blood is bright bright red then it has generally come from the lungs as it is full of fresh oxygen. The darker the blood the further away from the lungs the bleed is. Most horses burst a blood vessel or 2 in the pipes going up the head from the nostril which is probably what this horse has done. Some horses bleed because they have banged their head and again have disturbed the blood vessels causing them to rupture when put under pressure.
There is an old saying in racing - a horse can't bleed twice in 7 days. So many people with known breeders would gallop the arse off of them 5 days before a race. If the horse didn't bleed that day you would do it again the next day and sure enough the horse would bleed. Very rarely did that horse then bleed in its race a few days later. We used to burst Jeff before he ran. He won 5 races this way and never bled in one of them.
teapot
Well-Known Member
It was bright red, noticeably so on a grey, and there are some pretty close up photos on Getty Images if anyone's interested.
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
That is absolutely horrible. Christ, the things horses have to put up with!
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
It was bright red, bleeding profusely and there was noticeable splatter. I'm fairly sure Cian didn't notice as I would like to think he would have pulled up if he had, but him not noticing would be more likely due to the competition adrenaline than because of the physics of the situation - they are jumping 1.6m fences, not going for a stroll. Not to mention that at one point the horse snorted heavily to expel some of the blood from his nose because presumably it was affecting his breathing.
As much as I was hoping for some Irish success in the Showjumping I am glad that they picked up a time fault and didn't get through, and that the horse has subsequently been withdrawn, because the optics of letting it continue after that are not what equestrian sport needs right now, particularly not on the biggest world stage.
Nicnac
Well-Known Member
Team with a spare question. Previously when there were teams of 4 and a discard score, the 4th member of the team would get a medal. This is no longer the case. Luckily the spares weren't used in Dressage and Eventing but thank goodness they're there for show jumping. If, and it's a big if, the team do medal shouldn't Scott get one?