Too fat to ride?

[Roasted Chestnuts]

J

Just because physical issues weren't apparent at the time, that does not mean that damage isn't being caused and could well show up in future. 14 and 15 stone on a 14.3 Welsh d x appy doing all that hard work is excessive and silly

I still have the horse, I've had him 14yrs now, he is now 24 and still going strong so perhaps you should seriously wind your neck in.

He was on loan but is now back with me and is hacking and schooling sound in all gaits, barefoot might I add, and out pacing ponies less than half his age. He's had the best I could afford all his life.

I never advised anything but losing the weight like I have now done. I've lost over 4st. I related my experiences and there are a few on this forum who know me in RL and can testify to the care my horse has had and witnessed him over the years.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I know plenty of strapping big blokes in our local (essex) hunts including a few masters! I guess depends on your local hunts.

I wonder what the guys weigh and how big the horses are?

 

[Goldenstar]

Fatty and H will be carrying 16 stone out hunting .
They are just over 16 and 16.2 both RID .
H is 7 this time and only carried MrGS for a few days at the end of last season , he had a lighter rider until then .
He's still in work this sumner while I develop his back and strength , he will do a bit more this winter with MrGS by his eight year old season I will consider him ready to work as a hunter instead of us developing him for the job.
By that time he will be in his fourth season with us , that's why good weight carring carefully produced gents hunters are expensive .

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Just so as you know for the OP just good diet and regular exercise can and will help loads.

This is me nowadays (pink dress)

Me back then

Weight does come into how heavy you are but how your ride and how you carry yourself is more important. Nobody guessed me at over 14st when I told them that's what I was just as many wouldn't look at me now and say I'm hovering around ten as I'm not lightly made.

 

[OwnedbyJoe]

The usual discussion regarding personal experience and a whole heap of case studies, but no science or real numbers...
Which is normal for the horse world as we have VERY FEW good long term studies about anything much at all!
However, to my knowledge the only study that really had any science behind it found that horses which were routinely asked to carry more than 20% of their body weight had a significantly higher rate of musculo skeletal injuries and lamenesses than those carrying riders under that %. Hence where the "20%" figure comes from.
Without weighing both horse and rider we can't know if that 20% limit is reached/approached. People routinely underestimate my weight by up to a stone, and over estimate my horses by 50 - 100 kilos. I put him over a weighbridge and at 15.2 and well built with plenty of bone he weighs 480 kilos in fit condition (Arab X). So I have a 96 kilo "limit" with all gear.
There aren't that many genuinely 6-700 kilo horses around... There are plenty of 15 stone+ riders.

 

[Stormynight]

Just to throw another thought into the process - have you tried riding a 15.2 ID / cob?

At 5'2, you may struggle getting your leg round something that size if they're wide - I'm 4" taller than you on a chunky 16.1, and he really does feel huge sometimes. You need to assess what you're comfortable on, and take it from there. Weight loss is difficult, but it's not impossible... and once you break habits, it does become easier to maintain.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

The usual discussion regarding personal experience and a whole heap of case studies, but no science or real numbers...
Which is normal for the horse world as we have VERY FEW good long term studies about anything much at all!
However, to my knowledge the only study that really had any science behind it found that horses which were routinely asked to carry more than 20% of their body weight had a significantly higher rate of musculo skeletal injuries and lamenesses than those carrying riders under that %. Hence where the "20%" figure comes from.
Without weighing both horse and rider we can't know if that 20% limit is reached/approached. People routinely underestimate my weight by up to a stone, and over estimate my horses by 50 - 100 kilos. I put him over a weighbridge and at 15.2 and well built with plenty of bone he weighs 480 kilos in fit condition (Arab X). So I have a 96 kilo "limit" with all gear.
There aren't that many genuinely 6-700 kilo horses around... There are plenty of 15 stone+ riders.

I did post links to this study and a discussion of it as a way of providing info. I don't think everyone read it though and there appeared to be a lot who were happy to volunteer their horses for additional weight over and above the 20%.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

J

I still have the horse, I've had him 14yrs now, he is now 24 and still going strong so perhaps you should seriously wind your neck in.

He was on loan but is now back with me and is hacking and schooling sound in all gaits, barefoot might I add, and out pacing ponies less than half his age. He's had the best I could afford all his life.

I never advised anything but losing the weight like I have now done. I've lost over 4st. I related my experiences and there are a few on this forum who know me in RL and can testify to the care my horse has had and witnessed him over the years.

Well you certainly look great now, but I do really think that 15 stone on a 14.3 is very heavy, maybe he has exceptional conformation and the famed short back and wide loins so perhaps he has coped well. I bet he prefers carrying you now though !! Also If you weighed over 14 stone as you say in one of your following posts then your 14.3 will have been carrying a minimum of 15 stone 7 and probably more like sixteen stone - its your horse and obviously up to you but many people wouldn't consider that to be ok.

 

[ester]

The usual discussion regarding personal experience and a whole heap of case studies, but no science or real numbers...
Which is normal for the horse world as we have VERY FEW good long term studies about anything much at all!
However, to my knowledge the only study that really had any science behind it found that horses which were routinely asked to carry more than 20% of their body weight had a significantly higher rate of musculo skeletal injuries and lamenesses than those carrying riders under that %. Hence where the "20%" figure comes from.
Without weighing both horse and rider we can't know if that 20% limit is reached/approached. People routinely underestimate my weight by up to a stone, and over estimate my horses by 50 - 100 kilos. I put him over a weighbridge and at 15.2 and well built with plenty of bone he weighs 480 kilos in fit condition (Arab X). So I have a 96 kilo "limit" with all gear.
There aren't that many genuinely 6-700 kilo horses around... There are plenty of 15 stone+ riders.

There are a lot of holes in that study though so I am scientifically unconvinced by its validity for all horses. A horse's weight is just not the only important measure.

 

[Mongoose11]

Deleted. Brick wall.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

There are a lot of holes in that study though so I am scientifically unconvinced by its validity for all horses. A horse's weight is just not the only important measure.

Did you read the link I posted ? It does go on to explain that there are other significant conformation factors and the 20% is used as a guide.

Here is another link and this also discussed bone density - very interesting bigger is not necessarily better, but more support for the 20% rule.

http://enlightenedequine.com/2014/09/13/how-much-is-too-much/

Ester I would be interested in what you are basing your views on ? in the absence of a study without holes ?? I think we need some guide ? is there something better you could suggest.

 

[cattysmith]

You'd be fine with a full up highland! Anyone who disputes that doesn't know highlands as a breed. They are still used up here to carry stag and work for the forestry on the queens estate. They are truly a fantastic breed and at 14 stone you'll be fine with one.

 

[Goldenstar]

There are a lot of holes in that study though so I am scientifically unconvinced by its validity for all horses. A horse's weight is just not the only important measure.

No it's not ,correct conformation and correct training and work is very important as is what the horse is going to be going to do.
Fat unfit heavy horse and fat unfit rider is not going to be a good combination for the horse .
Correct saddle for the rider and horse throughout the horses life is also a huge thing.

 

[Gloi]

In another thread most people who commented thought it wasn't good practice for a horse which has not long been backed to be doing a two hour ride, saying that it hadn't had enough time to build up its muscles to do the work.
In most of the research which has been carried out on horses carrying different percentages of their body weight the horses carry the different weights without any time given to allow the horse to build up extra strength to do the work.
Surely, like anything else a horse does, what can be done with a horse new to a job and one that has built up the muscles to do it are two different things.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

In another thread most people who commented thought it wasn't good practice for a horse which has not long been backed to be doing a two hour ride, saying that it hadn't had enough time to build up its muscles to do the work.
In most of the research which has been carried out on horses carrying different percentages of their body weight the horses carry the different weights without any time given to allow the horse to build up extra strength to do the work.
Surely, like anything else a horse does, what can be done with a horse new to a job and one that has built up the muscles to do it are two different things.

The study that has been mentioned ( citing 20% as a guide) was completed on riding horses that were fit

 

[Gloi]

Fit and used to carrying the weight are completely different things.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Fit and used to carrying the weight are completely different things.

So are you saying that what should have happened is that the horses carrying 25 % and up should have done this over several weeks to see if they acclimatised to the weight - I'm not sure that would have been ethical - after all the majority did physically show the physical impact of carrying the extra weight.

I am surprised that so many on here choose to dismiss anything scientific re weight carrying ability and instead rely on anecdotal stuff such as the horse was okay - obviously its up to each individual owner, but in my view if there is any info out there which suggests you might be too heavy, then for your horses sake, you should consider if you might be too heavy - as opposed to carrying on regardless.

As for highlands carrying stags - I'm sure they do, but they wouldn't be galloping, jumping, competing, hacking at mixed paces, or going to riding club carrying one - they would probably be just walking - which is quite different to what we might expect a riding horse to do

 

[Mongoose11]

I am surprised that so many on here choose to dismiss anything scientific re weight carrying ability and instead rely on anecdotal stuff such as the horse was okay - obviously its up to each individual owner, but in my view if there is any info out there which suggests you might be too heavy, then for your horses sake, you should consider if you might be too heavy - as opposed to carrying on regardless

Who are the 'so many' on 'here' who entirely dismiss the study and 'carry on regardless'? Are you reading the same thread as me?

Not one person has done any such thing.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Yes

There have been some posts on this thread where people have encouraged the OP to ride a 14 hander saying that certain types will be fine - also even though the combination of rider and tack would push this to at least 15 and a half stone - equally there are also some who have posted to say that they weigh ?? and their pony is fine with the weight (when this weight is clearly in excess of the 20%)

Thankfully there have also been some who think the 20% rule is a useful benchmark.

What would be really helpful is if the 2008 Study could be completed on different types of native pony, so we could get some useful evidence - or not ??

I do think in the absence of this evidence then all we have is the 2008 study, everything else is anecdotal and is personal opinion

 

[Mongoose11]

Yes

There have been some posts on this thread where people have encouraged the OP to ride a 14 hander saying that certain types will be fine - also even though the combination of rider and tack would push this to at least 15 and a half stone - equally there are also some who have posted to say that they weigh and their pony is fine with the weight (when this weight is clearly in excess of the 20%)

Thankfully there have also been some who think the 20% rule is a useful benchmark.

What would be really helpful is if the 2008 Study could be completed on different types of native pony, so we could get some useful evidence - or not ??

I do think in the absence of this evidence then all we have is the 2008 study, everything else is anecdotal and is personal opinion

There are some 14 - 14.2h breeds that would be within the 20%. How would you know if the posters are over the 20%, as I can't recall many who quoted their horse's weight, their weight and tack weight? An appropriate highland might weigh 550kg which puts the OP within the 20% with tack. You like the study, what more could we ask for here?

'So many' is inflammatory, as that is not the balance of this thread. As are phrases like 'complete disregard'. You do many posters a disservice here. Overwhelmingly, there has been more posters against the idea of a 14h pony/over 20% than for!

 

[Wagtail]

There are some 14hh breeds that fit and muscled would be within the 20%. How would you know if the posters are over the 20%, as I can't recall many who quoted their horse's weight, their weight and tack weight? An appropriate highland might weigh 550kg which puts the OP within the 20% with tack. You like the study, what more could we ask for here?

'So many' is inflammatory, as that is not the balance of this thread. As are phrases like 'complete disregard'. You do many posters a disservice here. Overwhelmingly, there has been more posters against the idea of a 14h pony/over 20% than for!

If fit, I very much doubt any 14hh pony would weigh 500kg which is what it would need to be for 14 stone plus clothes and tack to be within 20% of its weight.

 

[Mongoose11]

If fit, I very much doubt any 14hh pony would weigh 500kg which is what it would need to be for 14 stone plus clothes and tack to be within 20% of its weight.

Try a Highland (the breed suggested very early on as potentially being suitable for the OP).

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Personally for me that study is worthless. Fit and in work carrying who? Men? Women? Children? What weights were they carrying before? What exact jobs were they doing? How was their aftercare? Did they have regular saddle checks? Regular body checks? How were they fittened??

All the above is not mentioned. I am not naturally a slim person, I carry a lot of muscle, always have, especially on my lower half and my shoulders. I can only give my experiences with my life and horse and also anyone else's which for me is more valid that any study full of holes and variants.

 

[Wagtail]

Try a Highland (the breed suggested very early on as potentially being suitable for the OP).

JFTD has highlands. I'm sure hers are nowhere near 500kg as she keeps them fit and trim. Could be wrong.

 

[Mongoose11]

JFTD has highlands. I'm sure hers are nowhere near 500kg as she keeps them fit and trim. Could be wrong.

JFTD is indeed our resident highland expert but I'd be pretty amazed if hers weren't too far off. I'll ask her.

Perhaps it would be better to read some of the breed standard info rather than draw upon one poster's own experience 😀 DunGarron (fairly famous breeders) suggest that a modern adult of theirs can weigh 650kg.

 

[Kallibear]

If fit, I very much doubt any 14hh pony would weigh 500kg which is what it would need to be for 14 stone plus clothes and tack to be within 20% of its weight.

A fit and slim 14hh Highland will easily weight 500kg. They are a lot of pony! A 14.2 Highland will be at least 550kg. Your average fat 14hh Highland is 600kg (tho therefore less able to carry weight). They're the only Native I'd say were up to a 14st rider at 14hh. A Fell or similar is far less horse. (P.s I'm surrounded by Highlands, can't move for the things. Many of which I know the weightbridge weight for)

 

[Smurf's Gran]

There are some 14 - 14.2h breeds that would be within the 20%. How would you know if the posters are over the 20%, as I can't recall many who quoted their horse's weight, their weight and tack weight? An appropriate highland might weigh 550kg which puts the OP within the 20% with tack. You like the study, what more could we ask for here?

'So many' is inflammatory, as that is not the balance of this thread. As are phrases like 'complete disregard'. You do many posters a disservice here. Overwhelmingly, there has been more posters against the idea of a 14h pony/over 20% than for!

I seriously doubt there are any 14 handers who would weight 500KG ( naturally fit weight and not overweight) and can happily carry 16 stone.



In terms of weight according to this website on worming the following weight's are a guide

http://www.wormersdirect.co.uk/infor...assessment.asp

Under 12hh Shetland, Dartmoor, Welsh A 200kg – 320kg
12hh to 13hh Exmoor, New Forest, Welsh B 230kg – 330kg
13hh to 14hh Connemara, Dales, New Forest, Welsh C 290kg – 390kg
14hh to 15hh Arab, Dales, Welsh D 360kg – 550kg

As you see it is only as you move towards 15 hands that weights increase to sufficiently to ensure that a 14 stone rider (adding tack and clothing etc) is under the 20%.

I think I would rather put my faith in science rather than personal ancedotes / opinion.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

JFTD is indeed our resident highland expert but I'd be pretty amazed if hers weren't too far off. I'll ask her.

Perhaps it would be better to read some of the breed standard info rather than draw upon one poster's own experience �� DunGarron (fairly famous breeders) suggest that a modern adult of theirs can weigh 650kg.

Would that be a 14 hander ?

 

[JFTDWS]

JFTD has highlands. I'm sure hers are nowhere near 500kg as she keeps them fit and trim. Could be wrong.

I suspect they're a lot closer to that than you'd imagine. Particularly F, now he's all muscled up and dressagey. Though I'm not sure the extra muscle he carries means he should also be carrying a larger rider too, so the premise may be flawed.

 

[ester]

Did you read the link I posted ? It does go on to explain that there are other significant conformation factors and the 20% is used as a guide.

Here is another link and this also discussed bone density - very interesting bigger is not necessarily better, but more support for the 20% rule.

http://enlightenedequine.com/2014/09/13/how-much-is-too-much/

Ester I would be interested in what you are basing your views on ? in the absence of a study without holes ?? I think we need some guide ? is there something better you could suggest.

I have read all of the relevant studies as some point. I am basing my views on being a working scientist with a PhD that knows how many studies, either slightly different or replicates of the same with different researchers, total replicates etc it takes to make a rule- and on this topic it's a long way away.