Too fat to ride?

[sportsmansB]

At the end of the day, following a decent diet and exercise plan should result in a weight loss of 2-3lb / week
If the OP really wants to ride a horse and be the most comfortable passenger for that horse and not risk damaging its back, then two months of sensible eating and exercise should get her on the right path
OP don't risk a horses' health for convenience (skipping a pony stage/getting on and off on a hack)- use the promise of a horse to get on the right track and then reward yourself for a job well done.
TBH if someone v overweight came to see a horse of mine & I thought the horse would be uncomfortable carrying them regularly I wouldn't let them try it. Though I have also asked people with awful hands to get off a sensitive one too...

 

[sarahandwilby]

I think the 20% rule is a bit rubbish tbh. According to that my TB (weighbridged at 494kg when fit, muscled and a spot on BCS) could carry 98kg, so 15.5st. His legs would buckle!

15% would be much more reasonable in my opinion - or less to be 'kinder'. 20% may be ok for some horses, but if people then begin to apply it across the board it can become a little dangerous (e.g. horses with soundness issues, different conformations, obesity themselves etc.)

However, it sounds like the OP is looking for something much more sensibly suited for herself

 

[ester]

Yes I think it was disgustingly offensive to those that have done Equine Science, it was a put- down of their qualification.
I've known some pretty dim people that have a PhD and some very bright and observant people that have no qualifications at all.
Equine science seems to be a relatively new degree, I certainly don't remember it being around many moons ago when I was a student, degrees moving into 'new' areas take some time to carve their way. The young people that are studying or have studied this now, may well become the leaders in their field that finally answer the questions we all keep asking on here ( and about time too!). They don't need to be told that they are inferior to more traditional and established scientific areas.
Btw, I haven't led a sheltered life at all.

As much as anything it is getting funding for such studies that is the issue, rather than the people available to do them as it is always more difficult when there isn't necessarily money to be made or saved. The ES students I know were at bristol in 2002, they had a pretty comprehensive syllabus with a good dose of science, poss more so than those JFTD has encountered but all have moved away from science (and horses!).

 

[MamaPonio]

I've been reading on my phone and needless to say, I have skipped a couple of pages but I appreciate everyone's input nonetheless!!

Kallibear, where abouts are you? I want to move close by and be surrounded by highlands, lol. I've seen very few advertised I'm in the north west but don't mind travelling. We've actually got one on our yard, a beautiful dapple grey, I'd guess 14hh, maybe slightly bigger and built like a tank. Unfortunately his part of the yard is privately rented and I have nothing to do with them so don't know his owner, I may have to do some snooping and hunt her out though!!

 

[MamaPonio]

That was my point about Highland V Fell earlier. My friends 14hh Fell looks quite like a Highland from the side (with more fluff) but weights a good 100kg-150kg less than a similar condition and height Highland. A Highland is by far the most substantial of the Natives (and therefore a weight carrier) so if the OP does still want a 14hh pony (although by now she's most likely put off horses for life! ) then a Highland would be one to look at, whereas I don't think the much-less-solid Fells and similar would be up to a 14st rider plus tack. Which is all the poor OP wanted to know in the first place!

Lol, just spotted this!! Luckily I've got very thick skin and I totally expected this to be a controversial post and was prepared for this to happen

 

[Kallibear]

I've been reading on my phone and needless to say, I have skipped a couple of pages but I appreciate everyone's input nonetheless!!

Kallibear, where abouts are you? I want to move close by and be surrounded by highlands, lol. I've seen very few advertised I'm in the north west but don't mind travelling. We've actually got one on our yard, a beautiful dapple grey, I'd guess 14hh, maybe slightly bigger and built like a tank. Unfortunately his part of the yard is privately rented and I have nothing to do with them so don't know his owner, I may have to do some snooping and hunt her out though!!

I'm in the central belt of Scotland so not a million miles from you!

Round here Highlands are common but very rarely advertised. Most are bought as youngsters with the intention to show then sold by word of mouth, if at all. If you do want a Highland then you need to go hunting and get in touch with breeders etc. Look for one that's 14.1 or 14.2 and you'll never fret about your weight. I'm rushing off this eve (to Common Ride, whoop whoop!) but I'll PM you as I know a couple sort-of for sale.

 

[cobgoblin]

As much as anything it is getting funding for such studies that is the issue, rather than the people available to do them as it is always more difficult when there isn't necessarily money to be made or saved. The ES students I know were at bristol in 2002, they had a pretty comprehensive syllabus with a good dose of science, poss more so than those JFTD has encountered but all have moved away from science (and horses!).

Yes, I can quite see that funding is a problem. Human medicine relies heavily on pharmaceutical companies , various bursaries and charities to fund research, but as most of the studies done are required by law or for approval by NICE there is a large bias towards therapeutics. Studies into 'well being' such as this topic are much rarer even in humans.
We really need some horse friendly billionaires....

 

[MamaPonio]

I'm in the central belt of Scotland so not a million miles from you!

Round here Highlands are common but very rarely advertised. Most are bought as youngsters with the intention to show then sold by word of mouth, if at all. If you do want a Highland then you need to go hunting and get in touch with breeders etc. Look for one that's 14.1 or 14.2 and you'll never fret about your weight. I'm rushing off this eve (to Common Ride, whoop whoop!) but I'll PM you as I know a couple sort-of for sale.

Thank you, that would be very much appreciated! Have fun later

 

[Smurf's Gran]

SG I'm not sure you were all that polite to Ester though who is equally well qualified to comment scientifically - which was my point in the first place, had you cared not to circumvent that minor detail. And incidentally, I didn't bring up the question of qualification, I was merely using mine to debunk your claim that someone "in the field" could offer some kind of silver bullet argument which would put the debate to rest, or at least, inform it significantly. No opinion can do that. And no evidence can until it had been published and repeated either...

I asked if someone "in the field" could offer some information, not that they definitely could or indeed should, so nothing there to debunk !!

Clearly you are not in the related field, despite being a "real" scientist and neither could you offer any information either - don't know why you bothered apart from to tell all that you have a PHD and to be insulting to others who have qualifications in Equine Science.

I accept all the arguments that the 2008 study may have its shortcomings and would need to be tested more thoroughly etc. I also think that its very easy to be criticical of a theory but in the absence of anything else that ANYONE can offer. I would say that the 2008 study trumps the use of "common sense " by a country mile

 

[Smurf's Gran]

It's interesting from the weights thread that at 730kg AA's Martha would carry 23 stone, at 15.2. (weight taped 650 I think).

I think there is also some info written by Dr Deb Bennett about absolute weight limits. I think she suggests a limit of 240 pounds, and that no horse no matter how big should carry more than this (Of course she may be an Equine Scientist - so can barely tie her shoelaces! )

 

[Leo Walker]

I would say that the 2008 study trumps the use of "common sense " by a country mile

I'm not using common sense. I'm using people who work in the field, people who have no vested interest in lying to me. Its not flattering me by saying ride him, I had until very recently, another horse, bigger and probably more suitable, so there was no need for me to ride the cob at all. And in all honesty, I'm not that fussed about riding. I didn't initially ask the first 4 people who said to ride him, it came up in conversations. I'm pretty sure I've posted on here about what and how the vet at least said it to me, if anyone can be bothered to trawl through my posts.

But clearly these experienced, qualified, professional people dont agree with some posters, so they are lying to me or flattering me etc etc. Yet my horse is more than happy, sound, no back issues and really doesnt seem to know I'm there, which backs up what all the professionals have said to me.

 

[JFTDWS]

I asked if someone "in the field" could offer some information, not that they definitely could or indeed should, so nothing there to debunk !!

That would be an opinion, which is no more valid than any of the others posted on here. Or evidence which would be meaningless without a full report of methodology etc. So your premise is a little flawed there...

Clearly you are not in the related field, despite being a "real" scientist and neither could you offer any information either - don't know why you bothered apart from to tell all that you have a PHD and to be insulting to others who have qualifications in Equine Science.

I don't think you're in a position to question my field, or my motives. But I'll repeat that I wasn't the first to mention my PhD on here (Ester had mentioned that we both have them in a previous post, so you can wind your neck in there). I'm not obliged to discuss the issue with you, or offer any information or opinions I have - and perhaps if you were a little less disinclined to see my point, you might realise that it is quite the opposite of the one you are trying to make it out to be.

I accept all the arguments that the 2008 study may have its shortcomings and would need to be tested more thoroughly etc. I also think that its very easy to be criticical of a theory but in the absence of anything else that ANYONE can offer. I would say that the 2008 study trumps the use of "common sense " by a country mile

That's your opinion and you are very much entitled to it. Doesn't make it fact though. Not by a country mile

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Smurfs gran you seem more intent now in winding up the posters who are providing you with valid points than actually proving one yourself. Every individual horse is an individual case, they all have their own limits despite any of these % rulings. My boy is still sound and in work, in fact I'd say other than taking it easy because of his age he could be out doing a lot more than I am doing with him. So if you wanted a case study over a period of time there is an example. 14years of it.

Science in this instance with so many variables is not exact as no horse or pony is the same as there are even types within a breed as JFTD has pointed out one of her highlands is more a 'sport' type ( sorry if that seems offencsive JFTD it isn't intended as such) where as you have the traditional leg at each corner that will easily carry the OP.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

I'm not using common sense. I'm using people who work in the field, people who have no vested interest in lying to me. Its not flattering me by saying ride him, I had until very recently, another horse, bigger and probably more suitable, so there was no need for me to ride the cob at all. And in all honesty, I'm not that fussed about riding. I didn't initially ask the first 4 people who said to ride him, it came up in conversations. I'm pretty sure I've posted on here about what and how the vet at least said it to me, if anyone can be bothered to trawl through my posts.

But clearly these experienced, qualified, professional people dont agree with some posters, so they are lying to me or flattering me etc etc. Yet my horse is more than happy, sound, no back issues and really doesnt seem to know I'm there, which backs up what all the professionals have said to me.

FrankieCob from what you have said previously you are riding at 22% though, and are trying hard to lose weight, and going for short and fairly steady rides.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Smurfs gran you seem more intent now in winding up the poster who are browbeating you with valid points than actually proving one yourself. Every individual horse is an individual case, they all have their own limits despite any of these % rulings. My boy is still sound and in work, in fact I'd say other than taking it easy because of his age he could be out doing a lot more than I am doing with him. So if you wanted a case study over a period of time there is an example. 14years of it.

Science in this instance with so many variables is not exact as no horse or pony is the same as there are even types within a breed as JFTD has pointed out one of her highlands is more a 'sport' type ( sorry if that seems offencsive JFTD it isn't intended as such) where as you have the traditional leg at each corner that will easily carry the OP.

It is not my intent to wind anyone up, but I do agree with the weight limits as something that people should have mind of, and be guided by. While those who do "real science" can find flaws in the 2008 study (which I don't doubt for a minute are there) this appears to be the only study of any type produced, with the only alternative offered being "common sense" .

I am also wondering if those who are considering that the study does not apply to their horse or weight are significantly over the 20%, but don't want to consider this - Its good that your horse is still doing well - there will always be ones that will - equally there will also be ones that wont also, and the study is there as a guide.

 

[ester]

I explained previously why it was relevant to how scientific studies, particularly those which are the only one of their type, are considered. Particularly as I know that I am far from the only one on here and that the others who do would likely have a similar opinion. I'd find it worse if I disagreed and didn't give a reason . If we are talking about scientific studies a background in science isn't really irrelevant IMO.

 

[ester]

Also that I have never weighed Frank as a 14.2 somewhat square short-backed welshie with less bone than you'd think they had if you chop his feathers off, if he is 450 kg that would put me at the top of his 'limit' if he is 500 kg we have a bit in hand but I don't have a weighbridge to check just the common sense, logic, pony in front of me.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

That would be an opinion, which is no more valid than any of the others posted on here. Or evidence which would be meaningless without a full report of methodology etc. So your premise is a little flawed there...



I don't think you're in a position to question my field, or my motives. But I'll repeat that I wasn't the first to mention my PhD on here (Ester had mentioned that we both have them in a previous post, so you can wind your neck in there). I'm not obliged to discuss the issue with you, or offer any information or opinions I have - and perhaps if you were a little less disinclined to see my point, you might realise that it is quite the opposite of the one you are trying to make it out to be.

That's your opinion and you are very much entitled to it. Doesn't make it fact though. Not by a country mile

JFTD I'm not interested in your academic qualifications. I asked if anyone had any relevant qualifications who could shed any light - yes this would have been an opinion, but it may have been an informed and useful one that may have been helpful, I don't see what would have been wrong with that. I don't know if Ester referred first, but if she did you were then happy to follow up in response to request for anyone with any sort of relevant information, only then to say you could offer no information to assist - so why bother mentioning that you have a PHD and are a "real scientist" ??

You're right you don't have to share any information - so don't respond ! its a choice !

I am now going to exercise my right of choice as I just hate academic snobbery

 

[Smurf's Gran]

It is not my intent to wind anyone up, but I do agree with the weight limits as something that people should have mind of, and be guided by. While those who do "real science" can find flaws in the 2008 study (which I don't doubt for a minute are there) this appears to be the only study of any type produced, with the only alternative offered being "common sense" .

I am also wondering if those who are considering that the study does not apply to their horse or weight are significantly over the 20%, but don't want to consider this - Its good that your horse is still doing well - there will always be ones that will - equally there will also be ones that wont also, and the study is there as a guide.

As I've also said before it would be great if someone could repeat the 2008 study using natives so we had some more information. I think this would be a useful addition for those who are over the 20% but say their horse manages fine, then we would have some potentially useful information as to how this actually does pan out.

 

[siennamum]

I can't face reading all the replies, and many of them will really annoy me.

Get a sturdy native type, you can share with daughter. If you want to lose weight riding and running around after pony & daughter will help loads, if not pony will be fine with 14st.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

I can't face reading all the replies, and many of them will really annoy me.

Get a sturdy native type, you can share with daughter. If you want to lose weight riding and running around after pony & daughter will help loads, if not pony will be fine with 14st.

The question is will the 14 hand pony be fine with 15 stone 7 to 16 stone ? The imaginary 14 hand pony will only be carrying 14 stone if the OP intends to ride naked and without tack

 

[ozpoz]

This rider/horse weight ratio was discussed by the Saddle Research Trust during the last years conference and workshop.
It is so very difficult to do a study when there are so many variables but what a great one it would be!

At the moment, if you don't have either common sense or a PHD why not stick with the old fashioned, but tried and tested method of "if the picture looks wrong... then it's wrong".
To me, a heavy adult on a 14h pony will always look wrong. I don't care if it is willing/obedient/resigned/native. Rider's aim to have a partnership in sport and not a potential welfare issue.

 

[ester]

I do think some adults can not look heavy though, especially if they are tall and on something that takes up their leg. - I look much better on frank leg wise than I ever do on taller TB types but not like a pea on a drum on the 16.2 chunky warm bloods on the yard either.

 

[cattysmith]

I don't need any more kudos, thanks. I'm more than happy with what I have.

I'm genuinely sorry that the poster upthread took it personally, but, as other posters have confirmed, it is a common enough opinion. I have had enough experience with ES graduates and students to inform my opinion, and sadly the local Agricultural College which churns them out does little to prepare them for a scientific career (in my opinion).

eta - the other colleges which teach ES may do a better job. I couldn't comment on those. I can say, with a degree of certainty, that a conventional science degree would be considered more desirable in all the workplaces I've been in previously.

Implying and I quote, that Equine Science graduates don't know their "arses from their elbows" is pretty arrogant and rude. I don't think unless you have studied at each institute offering the course you can use such a throw away statement. Fwiw I did mine many years ago now, and there was hardly any equine related subject until the final year. It was all entirely science related and run along side and on an equal par with the other biological science related courses. Science is a difficult thing to succeed in and those who have worked darn bloody hard at their degrees deserve the respect of their fellow scientists. The university I did my degree at still is one of the leading science institutes in the UK.

 

[JFTDWS]

JFTD I'm not interested in your academic qualifications.

And I'm not interested in your judgement on my academic qualifications - or Ester's (whose opinion you dismissed because she isn't in the mythical field of having magic data to support your argument) - or indeed, any of your ramblings, which I presume are the result of you being deliberately obtuse at this point.

there are even types within a breed as JFTD has pointed out one of her highlands is more a 'sport' type ( sorry if that seems offencsive JFTD it isn't intended as such) where as you have the traditional leg at each corner that will easily carry the OP.

Not offensive at all. And it wouldn't matter if it were offensive to me, since it is actually true!

 

[Smurf's Gran]

One of mine is a connie-style lightweight. He tapes only slightly less than my more traditional one, and I'd be surprised if he's way off 500kg even as a skinny pocket rocket!

If this is your regular horse and saddle combination - your saddle is too small for you, this will cause you to put your weight on the back of your saddle ( which is evident from the photo ) and over time will make your horses back sore.

 

[Wagtail]

Just in case you missed it, JFTD, (though I suspect you are ignoring it for some reason as I've asked twice now), what do your highlands weigh tape at?

 

[Regandal]

I see JFTD has the Audi S4 version of the highland. My friend has just acquired the Audi Q7 model. He's 15.2, outgrew his showing career (and everything else they had) so his owners sold him. He is massive! However, he is also beautiful, very well schooled and a dream to ride. If I close my eyes, I could be riding my old ex-hunter. I'm sure when he canters, it registers on the Richter scale. Lovely boy.

 

[ester]

Just in case you missed it, JFTD, (though I suspect you are ignoring it for some reason as I've asked twice now), what do your highlands weigh tape at?

TBF I don't actually own a weigh tape.

 

[JFTDWS]

No idea, wagtail, I haven't been near either of them with a tape in years and for the life of me can't remember what they were taping then. I had been going to tape f tonight as you had asked, but don't think I will bother since you're being so charming about it.