Too many who hunt are unfriendly and get hunting a poor social reputation

I had the unpleasant experience of working for a very well known Leicestershire hunt and found the majority who worked there to be really quite poor specimens of the human race. Funnily enough the guys looking after the hounds were ok though.:)

If they weren't real knuckle dragging country bumpkins who could barely string a sentence together (I cooked a stir fry in a wok one night and was told “you cook like a w*g” :eek: - yeah woks, their way out exotic aren't they, oh and nice racist word that I haven't heard for 20 years thanks), they were ridiculous toffs living in a little pre-first world war bubble.

The master would come to see the horses in the morning as they were being groomed, he'd say good morning and then the horse's name and not even acknowledge my existence – silly old fart.

They also told me that they would generally loose one or two horses every season to broken legs and it was accepted that this was often due to poor riders. It was considered to be an acceptable loss as, hey, who cares if you can't ride as long as you can pay. :mad:

I wasn't anti-hunting before I worked there but I sure was after – put me right off. :D
 
Most hunt supporters are Ok WHEN THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE, but they can either be very shy, which is seen as stand-offish by strangers or sometimes they just don't know if you are worth talking to so they don't bother.

I am often completely ignored, until someone else introduces me as a farmer/landowner and then they can be very pleasant and friendly.

I have some friends who were tenants on an estate and they used to deeply resent the local hunt crossing their land, of course they had no say in the matter at all as the landlord owned the sporting rights. They still have a hatred of horses and riders. Unless riders go out of their way to be pleasant to EVERYONE they are assumed to be stuck up (in the air - which we are of course) and looking down on everyone.

It is important to be polite. That scruffy little old man holding the gate could well own the surrounding 1,000 acres. It is a lot easier to say "no you can't come" rather than yes you can.
 
ORANGEHORSE said:
It is important to be polite. That scruffy little old man holding the gate could well own the surrounding 1,000 acres. It is a lot easier to say "no you can't come" rather than yes you can.
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Are you all sitting comfortably because I am going to tell you a story - a true story.

Once upon a time deep in *The Blackmore Vale and hounds were running very fast.

An immaculate gentleman in pink coat and topper - yes, topper in the vale, really - was standing viewing the proceedings and observed two very smart and most attractive ladies struggling with a gate.

Standing on the ground beside him was a farmer - wellies covered in cow ****, old coat done up with binder twine, had'nt shaved for a few days and a cap that looked as if he was going to breed from it.

The gentleman looked down at the farmer and said, "I say my good man, I don't suppose you would be very kind and go and help those ladies struggling with that gate".

Clearly from the farmers body language he was not too keen on the idea.

The gentleman said, "look be a sport and help them, in normal circumstances I would, but you see one is my wife and the other is my mistress".

The farmer looked up at the gentleman and said with a broad Dorset burr, "ah it be a small world ben-it, sur".

Things are far more involved than just ownership and tenancy of land!
 
Saucisson said:
I wasn't anti-hunting before I worked there but I sure was after – put me right off. :D
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Thats the problem though... When I was freelance grooming back in the days before gravity and old age had taken its tol. I worked for a very well to do family, recently been in the paper for a little bit of misfortune... Serves them right. They were vile. They occasionally hunted but not often more happy hackers but oh my word, they were vile.

I am not going to judge an entire industry on one set of people. After leaving them I had lots of other job offers and all were wonderful people! I didn't ever have to feed myself as the various yards I worked on would supply breakfast, lunch and supper while I was on my rounds. I didn't ask for it but was dragged in anyway! Such wonderful friendly people. vast majority were hunting folk who had a few horses here and there that needed to be kept fit, schooled and mucked out. Still in contact with many of them. The larger yards I worked on were ok but then the "keeping up with the Jones'" mentality started to kick in as everyone competed to out do the other liveries.

This is one hunt and not actually the entireity of one hunt just a few who are at the helm. So sad that they have put you off. Please don't tar us all with the same brush as some of us like to shout thank yous through car windows, pet small children and smile like fools!

I now must dash as I have to go tell Judgementals joke to several people!
 
We were told at Pony Club 35yrs ago that if we ever got into an argument whilst riding that we should dismount. Simply being on a horse makes you look superior and can make people feel threatened and more angry.
I do think that if hunts toned down the fancy dress for a few years, and maybe wore bright plastic tack and track suit style uniforms, some of the anger from the general public might dissipate. Hunting people do seem very removed from, "the man in the queue at Tescos", even if they shop there as well.
 
digger66 said:
We were told at Pony Club 35yrs ago that if we ever got into an argument whilst riding that we should dismount. Simply being on a horse makes you look superior and can make people feel threatened and more angry.
I do think that if hunts toned down the fancy dress for a few years, and maybe wore bright plastic tack and track suit style uniforms, some of the anger from the general public might dissipate. Hunting people do seem very removed from, "the man in the queue at Tescos", even if they shop there as well.
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you are joking i assume??!!
 
digger66 said:
We were told at Pony Club 35yrs ago that if we ever got into an argument whilst riding that we should dismount. Simply being on a horse makes you look superior and can make people feel threatened and more angry.
I do think that if hunts toned down the fancy dress for a few years, and maybe wore bright plastic tack and track suit style uniforms, some of the anger from the general public might dissipate. Hunting people do seem very removed from, "the man in the queue at Tescos", even if they shop there as well.
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"Bright Plastic Tack and Track Suit Uniforms"

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I fear that one might be on the bench with the unplayables.

Now folks, things are drifting somewhat. Becasue I started this thread with an 'in house' view of things, i.e. how we feel about each other and I suppose how much money we fork out and want to be made welcome. Yes I had the driving public in mind but that was secondary - for the moment.

The thread is a discussion about hunts making people welcome who are particpants.
 
Paddydou said:
This is one hunt and not actually the entireity of one hunt just a few who are at the helm. So sad that they have put you off. Please don't tar us all with the same brush as some of us like to shout thank yous through car windows, pet small children and smile like fools!
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You are quite correct, it is a shame but worry not, I have known some super people that hunt and do think hunting is very good for horses and equestrian sport generally - I won't be waving any placards around at any time soon. ;)
 
Saucisson said:
You are quite correct, it is a shame but worry not, I have known some super people that hunt and do think hunting is very good for horses and equestrian sport generally - I won't be waving any placards around at any time soon. ;)
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Perhaps this forum and very thread may do some good.

I see there have been well over 500 views and I only started it this morning, now 22:12. Actually 574 at 22:22

On the basis that for every view another two or three hear about the thread that possibly - I stress possbily 1500 hunting people who will start thinking.

Maybe with contemporary technology some of the past wrongs and existing issues are considered, especially by CHAIRMAN, MASTERS, SECRETARIES, HUNTSMEN AND WOMEN, AND THE COMMITTEE, who start issuing a few edicts on the subject of being friendly. Even dare I suggest having 'satisfaction' questions drawn up. Ok, so you all laughted but as I have been told fairly robustly elsewhere on this site, HUNTING IS A BUSINESS - well then lets have some customer satisfaction protocols.

What folk do not realise that with this forum they could start naming names and hunts.

Do I hear the moderator blowing home or gone to ground on that idea?
 
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Judgemental said:
Ok, so you all laughted but as I have been told fairly robustly elsewhere on this site, HUNTING IS A BUSINESS - well then lets have some customer satisfaction protocols.
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Now that is an excellent idea! My most local hunt does not give good value for money at all (on a week day anyway) so I will be giving another a go this season (hopefully!) I used to go Bloodhounding regularly (no longer have the nerve for it nor the time to get my horse fit enough!), everybody was lovely and welcoming and you were treated like a paying customer, which is, afterall, what we are.

Yes, there are some very snooty beggars out hunting, and not all of them 'new money' either. Once I saw a woman I had been chatting to out hunting visably recoil in disgust when I told her what I did for a living at the time (and no, I was not a prostitute, just a dogsbody at a hairdressers!)

I would not like to see the dress code dumbed down, it is one of the aspects of hunting that I love.
 
Jenhunt - would love to know which hunts you were thinking of in your first post - you are near my area, though I have an inkling which ones you may mean.

Interesting post - In my area we have one hunt that hunts on my family's land but ever since being a child we have usually gone a little further afield and off our patch to another hunt which is much smaller, friendlier and more down to earth largely due to it being friendlier.

When I moved back home from London a couple of years ago my hubby and I went to our local landowner-members hunt bbq (for the hunt I don't hunt with). Most of the people there were friendly enough, and it was nice to see a few familiar faces from pony club days etc, but a friend introduced us to the master at one point and he could not have been more unfriendly. Maybe it was just him, (or just us he didn't like!??? :D) but great figurehead for the hunt eh?? Thankfully he has moved on now and someone else who seems much nicer has taken over, so maybe I'll give them a go a couple of times when it's convenient this season and see how things go. I haven't hunted with them since I was a teenager (it was a good days hunting but was glad I had my sister to talk to). I wonder if things will have changed much...

Overall, I agree that there are some unfriendly people out hunting and they need to buck their ideas up. It's a great shame that these few can spoil a day's hunting and spoil the overall view of the hunting community. But there are also some fab people too and I guess we can't apply personality testing to hunt membership to keep the grumpy ones out!!!! ;) But I think if Masters set the tone then the field will follow to some extent!! :D
 
Saucisson said:
You are quite correct, it is a shame but worry not, I have known some super people that hunt and do think hunting is very good for horses and equestrian sport generally - I won't be waving any placards around at any time soon. ;)
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Well as long as they are keep Hunting placards you are more than welcome! In fact I shall join you!

But please leave any pink plastic tack you may be tempted into by digger66 at home. Such things are for the likes of Katie Price and bless, she has had so much "work" done to her I doubt that much left is actually real! There is being empathetic and looking darned silly! I imagine it would put the ladies off if they had to watch the masters ride in front with their breeches worn below the waist as seems to be the fashion these days with jeans! Perhaps a more tasteful dress code... back to the red coats but with smile badges and peace signs on them perhaps!!!

Hunting is indeed a business with many priorities.
 
It has already been said but hunting is a reflection of modern day life, you get all the personality issues described in the work place as well as on the hunting field. I am friendly to everyone having learnt many years ago that everyone is equal and should be treated with the same respect however if someone is rude to me I simply ignore them, after all this is their problem not mine. Having said this I have only met lovely people out hunting, everyone has been welcoming and supportive.

I saw the comments about Surrey, I was brought up in Surrey and had to move back there for two years a number of years ago so know it relatively well. Many of the comments I think are reflective of the area rather than directed to hunting. Whilst I had a wonderful childhood it wasn't until I moved to London I realised how unfriendly and snobby the area I grew up in was, this feeling was confirmed when I moved back. There were some lovely people but there were also a large number that wouldn't or couldn't be friendly.
 
Ah ..but it is great fun to watch these snotty nosed people..esp. if ,having been around a long long time,you know exactly their origens!! Laughable.
 
Might I suggest that if you belong to a golf club, you will find some people you consider to be pains in the bottom, and if you belong to a badminton club,ditto..and so on. Hunting reflects society in general. It is only the anti-hunters who haven't yet realised that all sorts of people go out hunting!
 
Crikey - interesting post..I only have experience of visiting with the Surrey Union and have dipped in and out over quite a few years! I fully intend to try to get out this season if I can pin my friend down to look out for me!. However, over a period of some 20 years, and not ever being a regular, I have only been met by politeness, and definately no toffs. In fact, one of my most endearing equine memories has to be dismounting when the hounds were working.. (no prizes for guessing why!). My friend and I disappeared discreetly - I helped her get back on and then was stuck with a very OTT horse. When the rest of the hunt joined us, I was given such a grand leg up I went up and over. See, not all stuffy people out hunting!
 
[QUOTE Ok, so you all laughted but as I have been told fairly robustly elsewhere on this site, HUNTING IS A BUSINESS - well then lets have some customer satisfaction protocols.

What folk do not realise that with this forum they could start naming names and hunts.

Do I hear the moderator blowing home or gone to ground on that idea?[/QUOTE]

It's funny you should say that! I have said several times in our hunt that for the amount of money we pay we are in effect "customers" paying for an entertainment service. This perhaps should be borne in mind by some...it is our money that pay the wages, running costs etc etc
 
rosiefronfelen said:
you are joking i assume??!!
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Not at all. Back in the '90s - when hunting was under threat -I was local PRO for hunts from Shropshire to Leicestershire; Herefordshire to Wiltshire! We DRILLED into Masters' heads (and with some you had to drill deep to find a teensy brain!:rolleyes:) that if there was ANY confrontation (or if a tv camera was looming) they should get OFF their horses!

The problem with being on a 16.2 hunter is that you are 'looking down' on people! Even the most down to earth person will appear to be 'looking down their nose' when they are on a horse!

MOST Masters at that time didn't know PR from a hole in the ground (which was where I wished they'd bury themselves most of the time!) There were a few notable exceptions - one I recall had an embarrassing incident when hounds ran through a housing estate! (terrorising small children,da-de-da!) It was a PR disaster in the making but said Master jumped off his horse and dumped it, and his red coat and hat on a supporter, pulled off his stock and rolled up his sleeves and went knocking on doors - not JUST to say sorry but to invite anyone he could find to come to the kennels the next day! DOZENS turned up - sherry and sandwiches for Mums and Dads, icecreams and hound cuddling for the kids. The local paper had to replace its PLANNED headline with one that said: "Hunt says sorry in style" - with pics of happy kids and hounds! I honestly believe that if Masters like him had made up 70% of MFH's (instead of about 1%!) hunting would not have been banned!

It was years of snooty hunt followers, blocked roads, hunts riding roughshod over land they were NOT meant to be on, gates left open etc etc etc that made it SO easy for the antis!
 
JanetGeorge said:
Not at all. Back in the '90s - when hunting was under threat -I was local PRO for hunts from Shropshire to Leicestershire; Herefordshire to Wiltshire! We DRILLED into Masters' heads (and with some you had to drill deep to find a teensy brain!:rolleyes:) that if there was ANY confrontation (or if a tv camera was looming) they should get OFF their horses!

The problem with being on a 16.2 hunter is that you are 'looking down' on people! Even the most down to earth person will appear to be 'looking down their nose' when they are on a horse!

MOST Masters at that time didn't know PR from a hole in the ground (which was where I wished they'd bury themselves most of the time!) There were a few notable exceptions - one I recall had an embarrassing incident when hounds ran through a housing estate! (terrorising small children,da-de-da!) It was a PR disaster in the making but said Master jumped off his horse and dumped it, and his red coat and hat on a supporter, pulled off his stock and rolled up his sleeves and went knocking on doors - not JUST to say sorry but to invite anyone he could find to come to the kennels the next day! DOZENS turned up - sherry and sandwiches for Mums and Dads, icecreams and hound cuddling for the kids. The local paper had to replace its PLANNED headline with one that said: "Hunt says sorry in style" - with pics of happy kids and hounds! I honestly believe that if Masters like him had made up 70% of MFH's (instead of about 1%!) hunting would not have been banned!

It was years of snooty hunt followers, blocked roads, hunts riding roughshod over land they were NOT meant to be on, gates left open etc etc etc that made it SO easy for the antis!
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When somebody as well known, knowledgeable and erudite as Janet George comments, you know that a serious issue has been raised.

So lets be constructive, bearing in mind on page 2 of Shocked being charged for Mounted Exercise, I was 'whipped' into line by Harper_gal, Jenhunt, Simsar and Baggybreeches to name but a few and there were others who all said hunting was business.

That was clearly the view of the majority and I am happy to go along with that view, indeed there was a certain metod to my madness to extrapolate the real purpose of matters, bearing in mind I started this thread.

So what do all the hunts do about being MORE USER FRIENDLY.

I think it is fair to say from this thread that the majority feel it is the Masters duty of care to see that everybody is friendly and welcoming. He or she should drum that into all his staff, committee and secretaries. In every business, success or failure starts at the top and percolates downwards.

Now remember were you first heard the following.

As part of the committee there should be a sub-committee of WELCOMERS whose duty it is, to talk to people whose faces are unfamiliar and who may come out on their own etc.

But this is the best bit, as hunting is a business, then everybody should wear a name tag - yes a name TAG!

Oh don't be ridiculious you are shouting at your computer screen. How does somebody wear a name tag on a horse.

Simple, assuming it is a black or navy coat or any coat including tweed, a matching strip of Velcro the same size as that used by the military for all military uniforms is sewn into the jacket, with the Velcro on the out-side.

Then the hunt has a run of names (sold to aid hunt funds of course) made and printed on Velcro which are simply married up with ones Velcro strip and can be pealed off.

Bearing in mind Velcro can peal back at the corners like brushing boots etc, one therefore purchases several tags for the future.

Well that's the idea no doubt somebody will refine the issue but it is essential that everybody who is out hunting wears a readable name tag. Including foot followers.

All in a hunt's prescribed Velcroed pattern.

That has an additional advantage, anybody not wearing or having obtained the right style of name tag or no name tag at all - especially sabs, can receive special treatment.

It must be large enough to be readable at least three metres.

One other point, over the years I have arrived on the scene of too many falls where the identity of the rider is not exactly clear. Especially young people.

Masters etc and others cannot be expected to know everybody, but if they can put a name to a face it half the battle.

So what do you all think? After all it's standard practice in the military, most businesses and certainly the majority of sports.
 
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The above posted at 07:17 now 10:33 and no comment.

Well let’s take the NAME TAG proposal a stage further and this is directed directly at MASTERS, HUNT SECRETARIES, and TREASURERS AND THE COMMITTEE'S generally.

The actual prescribed nametags to be issued by the hunt in prescribed form with the member’s name.

The tag will only be issued once the season's subscription has been paid or part thereof.

Thus once you have your nametag, everybody will know you have paid and I would venture an evens bet, that if the system were adopted, subscriptions would flow in with remarkable speed. All by 1 October.

Because it would be bad form to appear without a nametag, because you aint paid?

OK so there might be issues about visitors from hunts who do not adopt the nametag procedure, but then everybody will know they are visitors.

Actually that was the original purpose of having a hunt button and a velvet coloured collar denoting which hunt one came from.

The entire nametag proposal is, is a contemporary extension of something that was put in place in the 19th century.

So far silence, which in my world means, "oh help, somebody has actually suggested something easy, meaningful and shall we say makes hunting people more identifiable (literally and figuratively) with the great British public, does it not?"

This must be right, how about a comment from The Masters of Foxhounds Association?
 
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Hmmm, What about sabs getting hold of peoples' names, finding their addresses and them harassing them?

I would have no problem with wearing a name tag - my married name is well know round here, but as I don't subscribe....

Can't see it happening myself.
 
marmalade76 said:
Hmmm, What about sabs getting hold of peoples' names, finding their addresses and them harassing them?

I would have no problem with wearing a name tag - my married name is well know round here, but as I don't subscribe....

Can't see it happening myself.
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I thought of that and that is why I suggested Velcroed Tags.

If when the word is out that there are Sabs about, everybody simply peels (hey I can spell peel after all) the tag off and slips it in their pocket.

That is another way of collectively disapproving of 'sab presence' and warns others.

The procedure could be useful for all sorts of purposes by sending different messages. Indeed placed upside down could mean suspect sabs are about saves the master etc asking questions.


Anyway what have sabs got to sab these days - a trail hunt.
 
marmalade76 said:
LOL, yes, they've got what they wanted, you'd have thought that they would have given up by now - suppose the LACS employees don't want to be out of a job!
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That of course is indicative of the fact Sabs are simply reactionary.

I have been thinking further about this Name Tag proposal. If the positioning were as with the military (by the way I have no military connections) i.e. on the right in similar manner i.e. the surname only, I think it would provide a huge image boost for hunting.

I would welcome hearing Janet George's opinion, bearing in mind her excellent experince when she was the PR officer for the CA.

Another thing if the name is clear you can be certain the bearer will be impeccably polite and friendly.

Some have lectured me on the working of businesses and drawn comparisons with office procedure.

Any good Personnel Officer will tell you that the name clearly displayed causes the bearer to be mindful of their PR conduct. The military take the same view.

Think about it folks?
 
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ester said:
*tentatively steps in*

as a newbie I would find some sort of person ID/their role in committee quite useful.
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Welcome, good to have you out with us ester. You have made a very good point people hunting with a pack for the first time or have moved into a new country simply do not know who all the players are.

This is one for The Masters of Foxhounds Association is it not? Presumably they look at the Hunting Forum on the Horse and Hound Website everyday.

If not, it would be a good idea if it was watched, because the Internet is a very powerful tool to help hunting.

Clearly there are some extremely well informed people coming onto this forum, who are making very constructive suggestions, proposals to which the powers that be should respond?
 
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Simsar said:
JM I wish you'd stop with all the ****!

Afternoon Janet how's the breed show going. Sarah not Simon.
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Simsar if I understood your last post, I would be pleased reply.

That said, one assumes that everybody has an opinion and long they may be able to express their views.

Otherwise there would be no point in having forums such as these.

by the way I tried to visit your Website but it appears not to be working?

If the business of Hunting wants to repeal the Hunting Act 2004, they will have to accept considerable change and I for one, have many ideas of how and where to impliment change.
 
Simsar said:
JM I wish you'd stop with all the ****!

Afternoon Janet how's the breed show going. Sarah not Simon.
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Simsar, just one other point on page 2 of Re: shocked - mounted hound exercise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You said and I quote "Its a sport for us and and a business for the hunts!"

I have no argument with that, indeed I fully agree with your opinion.

However this is 2010 and we have experienced six years of the Hunting Act 2004.

In order to restore some fundamentals there has to be change and as a result:

1. There is a need for identity name tags

2. There is a need for customer statisfaction protocols

Those are necessary from a business perspective, notwithstanding the need to persuade our law makers that Self Regulation would work, which is one of the current tenets of The Masters of Foxhounds Association, in order to facilitate some sort of a repeal.

You have to give a 'bit' to get a 'bit' in this world - no pun intended.

But much depends what you want to snaffle I suppose?
 
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