Too many who hunt are unfriendly and get hunting a poor social reputation

LindaW said:
I've pretty much stopped hunting because of the rudeness of the members of one hunt, members of that hunt often state how friendly they are - but in actual fact they are friendly to people who are acceptable to their clique NOT all comers. I went out with a different hunt and found some of the worst offenders out as guests and had an awful day again. I'm correctly turned out, on a well mannered horse and a generally smiley person - twice I've been in tears because of remarks made.

Sticking with the bloodhounds who are generally friendlier, more down to earth, have a better day with better jumping and hugely better value for money. I doubt ordinary hunts will have my support again, and they've lost the support of my best friend who's hunted all of her life, and 2 other friends who were introduced on one of my horses, who's become a hunting schoolmaster in the years since we started.
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I knew that if I started this thread such comments would be made.

I come from a well known hunting family, hunt extensively and my own family have come home and said exactly the same. Indeed one will simply not go anymore!

Hopefully this thread will percolate to The Committee of the Masters of Foxhounds Association and they will take heed and give some explicit directives to Masters and Secretaries for the coming season, especially where young people are concerned.

If they want a repeal and self regulation, this is all part and parcel of what is needed.

There has to be a complete seachange in the hunting field. Those who have the superiority complex of being right up themsleves, being told to their faces in front of everybody where they are going wrong in their attitude. In exactly the same way as a master would inform somebody what they thought of them if they galloped over his or her hounds.

I don't care if they own a couple of thousand acres over which the hunt hunts, they can learn to understand - CUSTOMER CARE, because that is what it boils down to. Anybody who tells me that you must tread carefully, because Lady this or Sir that, owns the land and it's his or her neice, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all, well that that's just tough luck, because they should have not allowed the Hunting Act 2004 to happen in the first place.

They all know who they are and there is no excuse not to 'whip' them into line.

However, as I say, it has to come from the top.

There are ways of naming names on a forum such as this, without being libellous.

THEY ALL KNOW WHO THEY ARE - GET THEIR HOUSE IN ORDER
 
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However, has no one considered that this percieved "rudeness" may actually be fear in some quarters?

Some people who turn up are only there to ruin everyone elses day, expose the brutal murderers, and when that fails, they turn to abusing hunt members.

Has anyone, taking into account this fear, actually bothered to get to know people or do people just turn up on the day?

Another business at risk of attack from animal rights fanatics is Huntingdon Life Sciences. A work chum, many many moons ago, had to attend HLS for some exam or something. She came back to our labs furious at her treatment. however, even she could see that their pressing need to get her in and out without manners was actually fear of those standing outside hurling abuse, the fact that she may have been one of them.

It doesn't help the PR at all. But these are people are a rightly afraid of those who stand outside.

If hunt sabs would only feck off, I wonder how the PR of hunts would improve...
 
Harper_Gal said:
However, has no one considered that this percieved "rudeness" may actually be fear in some quarters?

Some people who turn up are only there to ruin everyone elses day, expose the brutal murderers, and when that fails, they turn to abusing hunt members.

Has anyone, taking into account this fear, actually bothered to get to know people or do people just turn up on the day?

Another business at risk of attack from animal rights fanatics is Huntingdon Life Sciences. A work chum, many many moons ago, had to attend HLS for some exam or something. She came back to our labs furious at her treatment. however, even she could see that their pressing need to get her in and out without manners was actually fear of those standing outside hurling abuse, the fact that she may have been one of them.

It doesn't help the PR at all. But these are people are a rightly afraid of those who stand outside.

If hunt sabs would only feck off, I wonder how the PR of hunts would improve...
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I agee the presence of Sabs can be worrying but all the more reason to 'cuddle' up to ones kindred spirits and be very friendly. Speak and Smile - it works
 
Is it fear or shyness?

Maybe some people just feel too shy to go and introduce themselves therefore they come across as being arrogant and rude because they haven't come and said hello.

There are always going to be people who are rude in every club whether it be golf, football, rugby!!!
 
HuntingmadinEire said:
Is it fear or shyness?

Maybe some people just feel too shy to go and introduce themselves therefore they come across as being arrogant and rude because they haven't come and said hello.

There are always going to be people who are rude in every club whether it be golf, football, rugby!!!
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Probably both!

Doesn't help that having not said hello, someone runs off to an internet forum, points out they're upper class, makes the association between coming across as rude and being posh and then decides all posh hunters are rude.

Oh rudeness, how I have missed you living up north :(
 
Harper_Gal said:
Probably both!

Doesn't help that having not said hello, someone runs off to an internet forum, points out they're upper class, makes the association between coming across as rude and being posh and then decides all posh hunters are rude.

Oh rudeness, how I have missed you living up north :(
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Perhaps hunt's need to run Pre-Season Customer Care seminars - any excuse for some 'refreshment' and jolly banter.

Yes, I think it should be free, not a money spinner, get all the membership old, young alike. In a hall or whereever. Masters, Committee up front on a stage and provide a lecture with questions and answers concerning the coming season.

They can tell the membership where they are welcome and not welcome and all the do's and don'ts.

Especially at this critical time with matters going back to the House of Commons.

If one has met all the players on their feet, it's easy when mounted etc and yes, everybody could have Name Tags at the seminar!
 
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Judgemental said:
Much as one would like to decamp to Ireland where the hunting is concerned, fact of the matter is we are where we are and have to make the best of a bad job!
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Possibly you are right,but for me interest in this country disappeared with that Act,and cannot show the slightest interst in it;houndwork was always my thing ,combating the wily ways of the main player..dusters don`t do that. So,that being the case of to Eire it is..Clare on the Limerick side is the destination.
 
Harper_Gal said:
Probably both!

Doesn't help that having not said hello, someone runs off to an internet forum, points out they're upper class, makes the association between coming across as rude and being posh and then decides all posh hunters are rude.

Oh rudeness, how I have missed you living up north :(
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What is it with the North/ South thing?

I recently attended a wedding where one of the partners didn't know anyone. The vast majority where from "up North" yet her partner teamed her up with us "a couple of southerners" because he knew that she would be well looked after, kept involved and enjoy herself with us despite her shyness.

People are people no matter where they come from. I am from the south and have noticed that some of the not so friendly hunts mentioned have been from the south but they are not the ones that I have had personal dealings with and I reiterate, I have only ever had positive exeriances with hunting folk. I really don't think being a "Northerner" or a "Southerner" actually makes one iota of difference.

I do get sick and tired with people from "up north" assuming that because I am a "southerner" that I am rude!

Sorry off topic rant now over!

I agree that the Act should never have happened and wouldn't IF hunts projected themselves in a more positive light during their day to day activities.
 
EAST KENT said:
Possibly you are right,but for me interest in this country disappeared with that Act,and cannot show the slightest interst in it;houndwork was always my thing ,combating the wily ways of the main player..dusters don`t do that. So,that being the case of to Eire it is..Clare on the Limerick side is the destination.
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East Kent as you can see from another thread somebody has started the issue is going back to the floor of the House of Commons, which our hero Otis Ferry trod the boards thereof.

Seriously and very seriously everybody must get it through his or her head that there is a COALITION GOVERNMENTrunning this country.

Whilst a goodly number of MPs are considering the why's and where fore’s of hunting live game.

There will be many wanting to see that hunting is all-inclusive.

HUNTING AS WE KNEW IT IS NOW IN THE LAST CHANCE SALOON


If any of these MP'S of whatever political persuasion think that hunting is anyway socially divisive then forget a repeal with self-regulation
 
HuntingmadinEire said:
Is it fear or shyness?

Maybe some people just feel too shy to go and introduce themselves therefore they come across as being arrogant and rude because they haven't come and said hello.
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I agree, I am rather shy myself and find introducing myself rather daunting! So rather than hunts expecting newbies to make themselves known to the hunt staff, would it not be better for the hunt staff to find the newbies and introduce themselves and maybe even introduce them to other members of the field also?
 
skewby said:
My hunt has earned my allegiance and subscription/cap for as long as I am able to turn up. Mounted or otherwise. I firmly believe that the good hunts such as mine will survive; whereas the others may realise all too late that tradition and heritage is not all; but new money is what will keep them alive.
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and that's the way it should be IMO... it comes down to customer service at the end of the day!

P.s. Skewby, that's why I don't tke Ron cubbing, it does his head in! ;)
 
marmalade76 said:
I agree, I am rather shy myself and find introducing myself rather daunting! So rather than hunts expecting newbies to make themselves known to the hunt staff, would it not be better for the hunt staff to find the newbies and introduce themselves and maybe even introduce them to other members of the field also?
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Nice idea but are hunt staff not too busy doing their jobs?
 
here's a thought, though I was helped by knowing someone :), but just basically seeing it as an outsider.

If hunt staff were aware there were newbies in the field might it be feasible when the master the field is addressed for the the we will be going this way that way, hunting within the law etc etc. For them to also include something like 'we also have some newbs in the field today so for the sake of them I am ...., please pay..... your huntsman is.... etc etc obv not too long but just a brief mention of names with perhaps a tag on the end to say please keep an eye out for them and tell them off (nicely!) if they are doing something wrong (Only because I would hate to be doing something wrong!)

or something like that anyway.
 
There will be many wanting to see that hunting is all-inclusive.

HUNTING AS WE KNEW IT IS NOW IN THE LAST CHANCE SALOON


If any of these MP'S of whatever political persuasion think that hunting is anyway socially divisive then forget a repeal with self-regulation[/QUOTE]

Not quite sure of your meaning here..do you mean a hunt ban on ALL field sports as being "all inclusive", always thought that was the aim of all the bunny huggers anyway! Actually foxes are doing quite good PR for a repeal,what with nipping at babies and campers ,are`nt they.
 
marmalade76 said:
Is it not the sec's job to collect cap/field money? Surely this is something they could do at the same time?
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Oh ok don't think the sec counts as hunt staff but I get what you mean. At the end of the day though the sec is normally just a regular paying customers too who just gives their time up to help so after they've done all their regular jobs they probably just want to chill out/get on with their day.

I do think that sometimes it seems that newbies expect everyone else to bend over backwards to help them/be nice to them/show them what to do but everyone else is probably just getting on doing their own thing. It's not that they are being mean/snobby or anything just getting on with riding their horse/talking to their friends.

I'm joining a brand new hunt this year where I know nobody at all so I suppose I'll be able to comment more then! But I won't be expecting any special treetment just because I am "new money".
 
no but having hunted plenty before your worries are likely different to other proper newbies :)

I don't think any bending over backwards needs to go on, just that maybe, a few simple, not difficult/time consuming changes might make it better.

As I said earlier I have really enjoyed going out with the hunt I have been out with but def enjoyed subsequent times better than the first.
 
EAST KENT said:
There will be many wanting to see that hunting is all-inclusive.

HUNTING AS WE KNEW IT IS NOW IN THE LAST CHANCE SALOON


If any of these MP'S of whatever political persuasion think that hunting is anyway socially divisive then forget a repeal with self-regulation
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Not quite sure of your meaning here..do you mean a hunt ban on ALL field sports as being "all inclusive", always thought that was the aim of all the bunny huggers anyway! Actually foxes are doing quite good PR for a repeal,what with nipping at babies and campers ,are`nt they.[/QUOTE]

I am referring to the hunt and hunting on horses with hounds as being all inclusive SOCIALLY.

There were a number of susequent posts about how the Officers of the Hunt should make themselves known to the field - I like to call them The Congregation on this forum.

I am sure you will agree I anticipated that for the benefit of the Newbies - (that's a first for me Newbies), when I called for each hunt to hold a Pre-Season Seminar:

"Perhaps hunt's need to run Pre-Season Customer Care seminars - any excuse for some 'refreshment' and jolly banter.

Yes, I think it should be free, not a money spinner, get all the membership old, young alike. In a hall or whereever. Masters, Committee up front on a stage and provide a lecture with questions and answers concerning the coming season.

They can tell the membership where they are welcome and not welcome (i.e. on whose land) and all the do's and don'ts.

Especially at this critical time with matters going back to the House of Commons.

If one has met all the players on their feet, it's easy when mounted etc and yes, everybody could have Name Tags at the seminar!"

In other words the old hands and existing membership get in there, press the flesh, chat people up, finesse them, flatter them, butter up the WAGAMs. Make a fuss of everybody, make them feel part of the team - bond with your supporters and they bond with all the others.

Not too much 'bonding'!
 
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Oh I cannot see leopards changing their spots..some hunts are nice and welcoming..and some are so far up their ***** they can`t see out. I cannot equate "customer friendly " as being a familiar idea to most of them.
 
EAST KENT said:
Oh I cannot see leopards changing their spots..some hunts are nice and welcoming..and some are so far up their ***** they can`t see out. I cannot equate "customer friendly " as being a familiar idea to most of them.
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Oh they are and they will, you are about to see the most extraordinary, 'ney' astonishing seachange in the hunting world!
 
EAST KENT said:
OOOps there went a flying pig!!!!:D Time will tell:D
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It is very simple. Nobody has woken up to the fact the government is a COALITION.

This is not directed at you EAST KENT but what part of C O A L I T I O N do people not understand.

Nick Clegg has said himself he thinks the whole subject should be left where it is.

Therefore is it is clear the Lib Dems are going to extract an extremely high price from the Conservative party to cut a deal.

Part of the price for certain, will be an end to Social Divisiveness in hunts.

Another part of the deal will be wrapped up in land ownership and the tenancy of land.

If everybody and the Conservative party wants the Hunting Act 2004 repealed, I predict that a remarkable set of Seachanges will occur in the Countryside.

Furthermore the Lib Dems will use the Hunting Act 2004 as a very effective bargaining tool to strengthen their position in the West Country and amongst their core vote.

The Hunting Act 2004 is the best Christmas Present that the Labour Party could have given the Libs Dems and it will be used in remarkable ways - Remember where you first heard this opinion.
 
That's interesting Judgemental. What is the Lib Dem's policy on land tenure? Do they want big changes? I will go and google.

But I wonder how the government could legislate to end social divisiveness in hunting, or in fact how they could even identify if it exists?
 
tootsietoo said:
That's interesting Judgemental. What is the Lib Dem's policy on land tenure? Do they want big changes? I will go and google.

But I wonder how the government could legislate to end social divisiveness in hunting, or in fact how they could even identify if it exists?
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Well now tootsietoo - I like that handle!

Were does one begin.

There is one particular issue that really irritates many many tenant farmers and that is the right of hounds to hunt over tenanted farms. The majority would wish to negotiate with the Master directly.

Doubtless everybody will say that is the case, in any event but come the day a tenant says, "no I don't want to see you this season, the ground is too wet and you badly poached it last season" etc etc, then all hell breaks loose and the tenant is summoned to the estate office and given a lecture on being a 'good and compliant tenant'.

As I have mentioned in a previopus post the majority of land hunted by hunts is in the hands of about 7,000 people or organisations, out of a population of 62 million.

The vast majority of those landowners - what is known generally as The Great Landed Inherited Estates, stipulate in their tenancy agreements that hounds have the right of passage at any time of the day or night.

Yes, there are a few exceptions and some terms are modified on some estates but generally that is rule.

In the west country it is a particular issue and tenants would wish to have complete control over when and if hounds may come on the farm.

It might not be a huge vote catcher in terms of numbers but it is an issue. Therefore a totemic means of the Lib Dems demonstrating their power, even where the sacred cow of land ownership is concerned.

More in the next episode............
 
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As they did not take heed of the mighty fact finding mission prior to the Act..that was a mere sop to the country/hunting vote,really I cannot believe social division even occurs to any MP. All those ignoramouses see is Basil Brush being "torn apart alive". It might be repealed as unworkable though and given back into the hunts regulating themselves . Come on Charlie ..have a gnash on some more humans and give hunting the very best PR job possible. I do admire your faith though JM,and indeed if it were as inclusive here as it is in Eire..then probably we would still be bombing around after foxes.
 
SusannaF said:
Just out of curiosity, wasn't there a "third way" proposed? For hunting to remain legal but be more tightly regulated? I met someone who was on the committee, I think.

Might that play a role too?
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SusannaF, I believe you have touched on the proposals that the Lib Dems put forward before the ban and had as part of their policy for many years.

I don't know where Lord Ashdown (Paddy) stands on the issue these days but years ago he certainly took the tightly regulated view. Bear in mind he stood for a constituency within the Cattistock country and Paddy was well informed on the subject of Social Divisiveness.

East Kent sorry I did not respond with your quote but in essence you are right too little was done before the ban in this respect.

Listen folks you have two Ex Public School boys of the contemporary era, running the country, one of which is an old Etonian and the other Westminster was it? Somebody correct me if I ham wrong.

The latter probably has his heart in the best interests of the country, as does Cameron. However the latter is part of the Great Landed Estates (does his father-in-law not own a chunk of Norfolk) where the sycophantic toadies are two a penny. So Cameron's position is tricky to say the least on the Hunting Act and any deal he cuts with Clegg.

But to come back to the point, if the Lib dems are going to make their mark this will be a major issue for them, bearing in mind the West country is their core vote and hunting is a primary issue (in the countryside) especially where the Devon & Somerset Staghounds and Quantock Staghounds are concerned and excessive numbers of deer eating the dairy farmers grass. The herds at the very least need to be moved on by hounds and only the full pack can do that effectively. The Lib Dems are so I am reliably informed, wanting to move Self Regulation forward especially where the West Country hunts are concerned but on their terms and make 'changes' to the way the countryside is run on a business basis and socially for their ultimate voting kudos. Also in a way that will leave the west country and hunting inoperable without a strong Lib Dem political presence in government, or dare I say it, a Lib Dem government but that I think is too a ‘draw’ too far.

The only problem with all this is if Clegg thinks he has the whip hand and starts running a heel line in these matters.

However, I predict that they will keep Cameron in Downing Street for the duration of this government i.e. up to 15 May 2015 because it is the only way they can achieve anything, especially having been out of office for what, 100 years.

I am also reliably informed that Lord Paddy Ashdown has a very firm hand on the hunting steering wheel. That is no bad thing because he understand the subject in detail.

So when you think government, think COALITION and remember Cameron has to cut a deal on just about everything with Clegg and Co to stay in Downing Street.
 
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