Too many who hunt are unfriendly and get hunting a poor social reputation

[Judgemental]

As promised in a previous thread I was going to have a tirade about people who go out hunting who fundamentally are so stuck up and unfriendly they get hunting generally, a bad name.

The high crowned Patey hat brigade, who think they are so smart that they cannot be bothered to talk to people.

Most of whom when on their feet are reasonably user friendly.

I once said to such a lady, "you are far too starchy why don't you talk to people". The reply, "my dear they might be a tenant on the estate". I told her straight to her face, "if you don't know all your tenants by name (christian) then you should not be out hunting". Happily she took my comment to heart and is now the life and soul of the party.

Gentlemen are no better, especailly those who work in the City!

It gets worse of course because too many people once on their horses are incapable of smiling - why for goodness sake - smile at people it is the obvious way of appearing friendly. A smile is worth a thousand words. Oh I know the whole experience is so nervewracking because you are unsuitably mounted. Why, because conceit gets the better and one wants to be seen on a smart horse but one that you cannot handle one side of and you would be better off on a nice old hairy cob!

Then there are those who simply will not lift a hand or acknowledgment to those who slow up in vehicles - I hear, "oh but I can't take a hand off the reins and I must have two hands on the reins". Well tough, learn to ride with one hand and teach your horse to put up with it!

Gates, that's another issue, when somebody on their feet is gracious enough to open a gate, don't just gallop, walk or trot through without thanking them. The number of 'tarts' and 'ponces', yes I shall call them that, who ride through a gateway where the gate has been held opened for them without so much as a word of thanks is astonishing. Alternatively those who are in a line of the field passing through a gateway and cannot say 'gate please' is equally astonishing.

Turning to conduct in the hunting field, too too many people go out and connot be bothered to talk to anybody, except those who they think are their social equals or above, if they think they are going to elevate their so called local position in society.

Ok so this does not apply to the majority but anybody reading this will doubtless, mentally put names to one or two who are members of their hunt.

Remember, SMILE AND THE WORLD SMILES WITH YOU

 

[Daisychain]

Yes and there supposed to be the 'well bred' ones.... ;-)

Lets face it if the genuine toffs had their way, there certainly wouldnt be any working class people out there.... only the ones that know there place anyway.

Its a sign of the times, people have to change, the days of doffing your cap at the gentry have long gone.

Respect is earnt by giving respect. Whatever class, religion or colour you may happen to be.

 

[Countrygirl]

Definately not all the same!!!!!!
I am one of the lucky ones who can go out twice a week and have had the fortune to go out with a lot of different packs. Unluckily I have been out on my feet for the past 3 seasons but I can honestly say hand on heart where I am now you get thanked by everyone when doing road crossings, loose horses, broken tack, loading up etc. They are a really friendly bunch who make everyone welcome and yes they are part of the Patey brigade! New people are always made welcome by both the masters and the field and looked after too.
Now I can appreciate that not every pack is like this and on one occasion at a joint meet last year I noticed the enormous difference between neighbouring packs.
I do understand where you are coming from to a certain extent as previous places have been very different, usually it comes from inter hunt politics. The other thing is - which I cannot really put into words - is social standing, they think that once they are in a mastership or on a commitee they are above everyone and untouchable.
I admit my experiences do not come from the larger packs, but they do come from a spectrum across the country and the 20 plus packs I have had the privilage to go out with.

 

[Simsar]

Its all about the hunt not the people they all differ from pack to pack some friendly some not if people think their **** don't ........... then avoid them or change hunt. Your there to do a job not have a jolly, as in another post last season. But that's another story. In the previous post I put:

NO breeding! Its in my blood and I was born in the East end, so common as muck. But I wear a Patey I bought it with my nan's inheritance!

 

[Judgemental]

Definately not all the same!!!!!!
I am one of the lucky ones who can go out twice a week and have had the fortune to go out with a lot of different packs. Unluckily I have been out on my feet for the past 3 seasons but I can honestly say hand on heart where I am now you get thanked by everyone when doing road crossings, loose horses, broken tack, loading up etc. They are a really friendly bunch who make everyone welcome and yes they are part of the Patey brigade! New people are always made welcome by both the masters and the field and looked after too.
Now I can appreciate that not every pack is like this and on one occasion at a joint meet last year I noticed the enormous difference between neighbouring packs.
I do understand where you are coming from to a certain extent as previous places have been very different, usually it comes from inter hunt politics. The other thing is - which I cannot really put into words - is social standing, they think that once they are in a mastership or on a commitee they are above everyone and untouchable.
I admit my experiences do not come from the larger packs, but they do come from a spectrum across the country and the 20 plus packs I have had the privilage to go out with.

As I said at the end of my originating post

"Ok so this does not apply to the majority but anybody reading this will doubtless, mentally put names to one or two who are members of their hunt".

Unfortunately it is that minority that generate the antipathy.

Oh yes, masters, secretaries, the committee and their siblings. They need addressing (down) in this thread. Once elevated there is a definite air of superiority, largely because too many people are so deferential.

 

[JenHunt]

i see what you mean, but i think it varies so much from hunt to hunt. Ours is reknowned as one of the friendliest hunts around, everyone made to feel welcome and gate openers/shutters thanked etc.

but one or two of our neighbouring packs have dreadful reputations for not making visitors welcome, and in one case totally ignoring them except to collect a rather steep visitors cap!

 

[Judgemental]

i see what you mean, but i think it varies so much from hunt to hunt. Ours is reknowned as one of the friendliest hunts around, everyone made to feel welcome and gate openers/shutters thanked etc.

but one or two of our neighbouring packs have dreadful reputations for not making visitors welcome, and in one case totally ignoring them except to collect a rather steep visitors cap!

I know it is very variable and it is that last paragraph of your post that is all too apparant, but hopefully a goodly number of folk will read this thread for the coming season and take the sentiment to heart.

Hunting is at an important watershed and image and presentation are everything in this world.

By the way, I own two Patey Hats and they are excellent kit.

 

[Kaylum]

Well I see your point of view Judgemental but I also see another point of view where this behaviour happens in all situations in life. At work for example. You hold the door open for someone and guess what they ignore you and dont even notice you have taken the effort to hold the door open. I am just like ok so what miserable person alert.

We had one girl at work who would not interact with anyone but management. She was so stuck up, so she never got invited out with us lot and we had some wild nights out and in fact ended up having no friends at work whatsoever. Her fault.

It happens everywhere.

 

[Judgemental]

Well I see your point of view Judgemental but I also see another point of view where this behaviour happens in all situations in life. At work for example. You hold the door open for someone and guess what they ignore you and dont even notice you have taken the effort to hold the door open. I am just like ok so what miserable person alert.

We had one girl at work who would not interact with anyone but management. She was so stuck up, so she never got invited out with us lot and we had some wild nights out and in fact ended up having no friends at work whatsoever. Her fault.

It happens everywhere.

Yes but this is to a great extent a social event happening in a public place, where members of the public (also in their vehicles) who are not part of the hunt will be encountered. Farmers over whose land the hunt is conducted coupled to farm workers are an issue not to mention all those who hunt.

The courtesy to absolutely everybody out hunting is paramount, no matter who or what they are, their so called social station, how much money they have, what they own it is all neither here nor there.

Everybody should be greeted in a genuinely friendly manner and everybody should be spoken to and in my world anybody who is spoken to and is too stuck up to respond should be sent home!

 

[Paddydou]

I haven't been hunting, a lack of time would not allow me to. However I have had the pleasure of meeting many hunting folk and a friendlier bunch you really couldn't find. I have been invited on several occasions which sadly I have had to turn down.

I was (once upon a time) very anti, foxes do look cute. It was through discussions with hunting folk and watching events/ natures behaviour that changed my mind. The worst and by far more dangerous behaviour has come from the anti's. I saw this long before it became big news and those are sights that I will never forget.

I do know lots of people who have had very unsavory encounters with hunting folk. Being "bloodied" was remembered by one woman who is nearly 90after over 80 years as a particularly traumatic event and turned her "anti" ever since.

It is not just hunting that suffers the equestrian snob. However as it is an emotive subject. Personally I would love to see some form of regulation or "spot checking" and the Hunting act repealed. This way some of the more unsavoury acts can become historical and the hunts can continue to do their good work.

Anyone who owns a horse will tell you that at some point there is someone who thinks that they are a snob because of their hobby. All forms of equestrian sport are still seen as very "elite" and not open to the general public. I would love to see more being put into the cities and towns to change this attitude.

I agree that anyone who is rude while out hunting should be sent home.

 

[Kaylum]

and I was talking about a work place where everyone should be treated with respect, so back to my point it happens in all situations. Its a people thing.

 

[Simsar]

and I was talking about a work place where everyone should be treated with respect, so back to my point it happens in all situations. Its a people thing.

Well said.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

in our area, which is so blessed with tradition, and doffing of caps still is a common occurance-we have no committee so no in-fighting,no hunt cards so they dont get in the "wrong hands",everything is by word of mouth, so we meet and go- every day is an adventure and our followers( of which there are many) are a delight and colourful- as i say,we are so blessed.

 

[Simsar]

Paddyd you hit the nail on the head hunting folk are fantastic, its all the others, the ones that don't know or think they do, hope this makes sense.

I am lucky enough to work with some major A list celeb's and some of them are right W******! But the majority are fantastic. If you have had to work for it normally people turn out alright but if you given in your more than likely a ****. But why can't everyone just realise manners don't cost.

 

[Judgemental]

in our area, which is so blessed with tradition, and doffing of caps still is a common occurance-we have no committee so no in-fighting,no hunt cards so they dont get in the "wrong hands",everything is by word of mouth, so we meet and go- every day is an adventure and our followers( of which there are many) are a delight and colourful- as i say,we are so blessed.

Clearly I shall have to visit as this sounds like paradise.

 

[Simsar]

JM clearly you don't want to talk to me which is fine I did tell you on the previous post to get back in your hole but by ignoring me surely you can do that to all the toffs or whatever you want to call them. I know I know you won't reply. But your post are a bit you know wanting a reaction which makes me think that your not so easy to get along with either.

 

[Simsar]

Wish I was a good with words LOL!

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Simsar, JM and i got off on the wrong foot(quite easy for me!!)but i think he is very much"old school" and bit of a softee-which is your hunt, Surrey Union, or is it affiliated with another pack, i cant keep up with all the changes,unless i have my head in the hunting bible!!

 

[Simsar]

Yes Surrey Union ( will pm you ). I totally agree with old school like I said you are there to do a job not have a jolly etc. I would love hunting to be back like in the times of my pictures but it won't and life goes on.

 

[Simsar]

As promised in a previous thread I was going to have a tirade about people who go out hunting who fundamentally are so stuck up and unfriendly that includes some masters I'm afraid they get hunting generally, a bad name.

The high crowned Patey hat brigade, who think they are so smart that they cannot be bothered to talk to people again that includes masters.

Most of whom when on their feet are reasonably user friendly.

I once said to such a lady, "you are far too starchy why don't you talk to people". The reply, "my dear they might be a tenant on the estate". I told her straight to her face, "if you don't know all your tenants by name (christian) then you should not be out hunting". Happily she took my comment to heart and is now the life and soul of the party.

Gentlemen are no better, especailly those who work in the City! Glad you put about the men too!

It gets worse of course because too many people once on their horses are incapable of smiling - why for goodness sake - smile at people it is the obvious way of appearing friendly oh masters again. A smile is worth a thousand words. Oh I know the whole experience is so nervewracking because you are unsuitably mounted. Why, because conceit gets the better and one wants to be seen on a smart horse but one that you cannot handle one side of and you would be better off on a nice old hairy cob! How true!

Then there are those who simply will not lift a hand or acknowledgment to those who slow up in vehicles - I hear, "oh but I can't take a hand off the reins and I must have two hands on the reins". Well tough, learn to ride with one hand and teach your horse to put up with it!

Gates, that's another issue, when somebody on their feet is gracious enough to open a gate, don't just gallop, walk or trot through without thanking them. The number of 'tarts' and 'ponces', yes I shall call them that, who ride through a gateway where the gate has been held opened for them without so much as a word of thanks is astonishing that goes on alot more than you think. Alternatively those who are in a line of the field passing through a gateway and cannot say 'gate please' is equally astonishing because they haven't been taught. They all go on about our hunt does an etiquette day/eve but they go to the pub and forget half

Turning to conduct in the hunting field, too too many people go out and connot be bothered to talk to anybody, except those who they think are their social equals or above try living in Surrey, if they think they are going to elevate their so called local position in society.

Ok so this does not apply to the majority but anybody reading this will doubtless, mentally put names to one or two who are members of their hunt.

Remember, SMILE AND THE WORLD SMILES WITH YOU

Get some badges printed.

 

[Maesfen]

Ooh, lots to respond to so here goes -

Well I see your point of view Judgemental but I also see another point of view where this behaviour happens in all situations in life. At work for example. You hold the door open for someone and guess what they ignore you and dont even notice you have taken the effort to hold the door open. I am just like ok so what miserable person alert.

A friend (male) was working in New York. Walking through an office block with two others, a girl came towards him up to the brim with folders and was trying to get through a door. The other 2 men just stood there but being English, he leapt to open the door for her. She glared at him and stalked through, the men were ashen faced. "FGS don't do that again, she'll have you for sexual harassment." to which he replied, "I'm English, we know our manners and one of those is always to open doors for any lady whether she likes it or not." The men seriously thought he'd be charged, I find that very sad.

Yes but this is to a great extent a social event happening in a public place, where members of the public (also in their vehicles) who are not part of the hunt will be encountered. Farmers over whose land the hunt is conducted coupled to farm workers are an issue not to mention all those who hunt.

The courtesy to absolutely everybody out hunting is paramount, no matter who or what they are, their so called social station, how much money they have, what they own it is all neither here nor there.

Everybody should be greeted in a genuinely friendly manner and everybody should be spoken to and in my world anybody who is spoken to and is too stuck up to respond should be sent home!

Couldn't agree more with you J. Manners are an absolute must from and towards anyone, anywhere in my book - but particularly out hunting if you don't want to be banned from any land; it's too easy to lose access by bad behaviour.

Paddyd you hit the nail on the head hunting folk are fantastic, its all the others, the ones that don't know or think they do, hope this makes sense.

I am lucky enough to work with some major A list celeb's and some of them are right W******! But the majority are fantastic. If you have had to work for it normally people turn out alright but if you given in your more than likely a ****. But why can't everyone just realise manners don't cost.

For once, I do have to take issue with you there. For us, around here, old money/titles are by far better mannered and friendly than the new rich, without a shadow of a doubt; they're also far better payers too! New money always seem to think you owe them and have a chip on their shoulder, we know which we prefer - and that's not being snobby at all, just how we find them.

 

[Simsar]

North south that's my last word.x

 

[Judgemental]

I have yet to really stir the pot - yet you say!

Less than 20,000 people in the UK own the majority of farmed land/estates - I have no doubt somebody will correct me with the exact figure, please do.

Nevertheless, 20,000 give or take out of a population of 60 million.

But it is that 20,000 and I suppose the 6/7000 who are owners of land with tenants that have hunts regularly traversing their property.

There is one of the most interesting pieces of social 'intercourse' the thinly and barely concealed "well if you don't bow you head, be thoroughly subservient and a proper sycophantic toady, where I encounter you, then I might not welcome you on my land".

 

[Judgemental]

JM clearly you don't want to talk to me which is fine I did tell you on the previous post to get back in your hole but by ignoring me surely you can do that to all the toffs or whatever you want to call them. I know I know you won't reply. But your post are a bit you know wanting a reaction which makes me think that your not so easy to get along with either.

Hum sorry missed this, not quite sure if I understand it but Toffs is not a word I would use. Oh I am mild as milk very easy to get along with, very easy!

 

[Judgemental]

Ooh, lots to respond to so here goes -


A friend (male) was working in New York. Walking through an office block with two others, a girl came towards him up to the brim with folders and was trying to get through a door. The other 2 men just stood there but being English, he leapt to open the door for her. She glared at him and stalked through, the men were ashen faced. "FGS don't do that again, she'll have you for sexual harassment." to which he replied, "I'm English, we know our manners and one of those is always to open doors for any lady whether she likes it or not." The men seriously thought he'd be charged, I find that very sad.

New York indeed - the cosmopolitan atmosphere of this thread is very rewarding.

Sexual harrassment out hunting, now that is a whole new ball game.

Now that could generate a few acres, nay hectares of forum.

 

[Judgemental]

Simsar, JM and i got off on the wrong foot(quite easy for me!!)but i think he is very much"old school" and bit of a softee-which is your hunt, Surrey Union, or is it affiliated with another pack, i cant keep up with all the changes,unless i have my head in the hunting bible!!

Oh Rosie, soft as butter and very pliable - old school can be, well I know what it's all about, that must be fairly evident.

However I can have moments of wondering where it's going.Taking into account the Act and the cost of hunting.

But to be really serious, if all the hunts stamp out so called unfriendly behaviour, then that's half the battle and folk will put their hands in their pockets. The support will be forthcoming and the Act well hopefully it will simply fizzile out?

In the final analysis it is up to the Masters to be jolly team leaders and have an endless store of wit and charm -

 

[Paddydou]

You do know that the vast majority of the problem is caused by negative effect. Human tend to remember negative far more than positive so if 1 horse rider is rude to a driver on the road it will take at least 10 positive encounters to put that negative into perspective.

Place this with equines being seen as elitist, the view that the "garb" that the hunts dress up in is expensive in the shops and rather dashing looking (dispite the fact that most probably have moth balls still stuffed in the pockets from their great grandfathers day) its projecting an "image" that isn't in actual fact "reality".

The reality of it is that North or South of what ever boarder you choose the vast majority of hunting folk are fantastic, they are generous, they are enthusiastic about looking after and conserving the countryside for future generations amongst other things, they are animal lovers and despise forms of animal crewlty (sp apologies), they are energetic, they are polite, mischivious and happy people. Stick 'em all in a pub and the bar will be dry with fantastci stories to be heard and a wonderful evening to be had by all. But it only takes one to ruin this.

The image of it all is that "posh" people with loads of "dosh" ride "nags" to show off and they all presume that they are better than everyone else because they have smart dress codes and don't loaf about in trackky B's (in public!). Take a non horsey person from the middle of a city and stick them in the middle of a group of huntsmen and they will have no idea what on earth is going on, they will feel intimidated and thus fearful and angry. That is the basis on the "animal lovers" stance. They use this to their advantage all the time.

Google "hunting" and I imagine that all the greenies have got in there first and you will find a whole load of carefully slowed down videos showing animals being ripped apart time after time after time, you will see non of the positive just ghastly sceenes all the time carefully patched together to make the strongest mans stomach turn. They have the upper hand because of this and the Hunting community needs to speed up in projecting a positive imagery of them selves. Not as "Toffs" in red coats with a hunting crop but as human beings working to preserve their local area (and have a good time in the process).

"Kill them with kindness" - thats what the hunting community needs to be doing if it wants to get back to where it should be. If you can't take your hand off of the rein what is wrong with shouting thank you and brandishing your teeth in a big grin? Hunting communities need to stop being afraid of their adversary and instead look to educate and include them. Horses should not be "elitist" and more should be done by all of us to get children of all ages involved and learning (catch em while they are young and the war is already won). Show people that you are nice!

This is Britian (from where I am typing anyway), we should stand up and be proud of ourselves for being who we are instead of copying the americans all the time and apologising over a cup of tea! Bring back the pride and the louts will slowly disapate.

I am digressing all over the place so I am going now...!

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Oh Rosie, soft as butter and very pliable - old school can be, well I know what it's all about, that must be fairly evident.

However I can have moments of wondering where it's going.Taking into account the Act and the cost of hunting.

But to be really serious, if all the hunts stamp out so called unfriendly behaviour, then that's half the battle and folk will put their hands in their pockets. The support will be forthcoming and the Act well hopefully it will simply fizzile out?

In the final analysis it is up to the Masters to be jolly team leaders and have an endless store of wit and charm -

this isn't going to happen, unfortunately.the bulk of the hunts will carry on as usual- such is the attitude of the human being-hunting to the toffs is just a bye product,and if you dont stump up with your subs then byebye!!what part of the country do you hunt-have you worked out mine yet?

 

[JenHunt]

and I was talking about a work place where everyone should be treated with respect, so back to my point it happens in all situations. Its a people thing.

I know what you mean Kaylum, but it doesn't narrow it down... everyone should be treated with respect all the time, where ever they are, who ever they are.

I'm fortunate to work somewhere that has such a culture of respect that management hold doors open for the "lowliest" worker and one thanks the other for doing so. Equally the management make a point of thanking staff for their work.

I think you're mostly right tho, it is a people thing.

 

[JenHunt]

The reality of it is that North or South of what ever boarder you choose the vast majority of hunting folk are fantastic, they are generous, they are enthusiastic about looking after and conserving the countryside for future generations amongst other things, they are animal lovers and despise forms of animal crewlty (sp apologies), they are energetic, they are polite, mischivious and happy people. Stick 'em all in a pub and the bar will be dry with fantastci stories to be heard and a wonderful evening to be had by all. But it only takes one to ruin this.

hear hear.... *applauds that...errr...person* well said.

If you can't take your hand off of the rein what is wrong with shouting thank you and brandishing your teeth in a big grin?

careful who you shout and grin at... they may assume you're shouting abuse and showing your best menacing toothy grimace!