Too many who hunt are unfriendly and get hunting a poor social reputation

Judgemental said:
One minute one thinks the Cons are your friends and the next they need to do a deal with the LibDems, to get some legislation through the House of Commons. Then like a rabbit out of a hat, they the Cons don't want to know you.
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I have to disagree with you there! The Conservtives KNOW that the Coalition won't last forever -hell, none of them want it too! And at the next election, the Conservatives will be seeking a stand-alone majority-and will NEED their friends. They WILL deliver when they can! And no - I'm not being naive-they need us at LEAST as much as we need them!
 
Simsar said:
Paddyd ditto ^^^^^^^^^^^again perfect, now we shall start a PD fanclub. x
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Its so hard being right ALL the time ;)

Don't worry about my fan club I think we should put all our efforts into the JM one!

As JM is not allowed to wear pink (with the exception of special occasions) does that give us the heads up to flirt outragously with our idol?

Back to topic though. It is a serious problem not just for hunts but for the rural community. Urban dwellers seem to have the picturesque veiw that all is fine and dandy in the countryside and its all cute foxes, furry bunnies and sunny afternoon walks.

I see some of the local farmers in the village shop most mornings. We have a little competition "Who has had the best complaint recently". Some of them include, poo on the roads (please note very small amounts a dog would produce more), smells from animals or the trailers transporting the muck, a stack of straw bales looking like a block of flats, dust on cars driving past the combines harvesting in the fields next to the road... Would you care for me to continue? They range from the sublime to the ridiculous!

Hunting doesn't stand a chance while a great percentage of our population has no idea what it is, what it does and why it is done. For heavens sake we are taking about people who have no idea that the stuff in the fields produces their weetabix, that carrots are grown in the ground and have mud on them prior to being washed, that berries come from bushes and not the frozen section.

Next bit - I am disapointed that some deem it nessessary to use this forum to voice personal opinions about personal disputes that have sadly caused problems for a very limited number of hunts. It is not "cricket" and very childish behaviour. It also frightens me. After all why do the LACS need to bother when we have internal sqabbling that could destroy us anyway? I am glad that some have a sense of humour about it and have been able to enlighten us in imaginative ways but the people directly involved really need to sort it out with each other, like grown ups, rather than argue over the internet. I repeat North or South of the M4 there are plenty of well run, happy hunts who are very welcoming, friendly and full of charming folk. it would be nice if we could all cut out the North/ South thing and remember that we are all part of one big community who basically want the same things.

Sorry JM, you know I will back you to the hilt, but Rosie does have a point. Perhaps "repeal" is not the way forward, perhaps a revision is... If much thought and deliberation is put into it I am sure that amendments to the existing law could be made (all those daft bits scraped etc) so that politicans can keep face while trying to deal with the other pressing issues that this country has. Think back door rather than barging in the front. Its how slavery in this country ended.
 
rosiefronfelen said:
----perhaps a repeal is not the way foreward, have you thought of that?
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I have said it before and I don't mind saying it again. Think of the pressure that hunt staff and masters are under to comply with the law. I am a very amateur whipper-in to a foot pack, but I still have to wonder whether I might be under surveillance and subjected to a spurious court case like so many others have before me. I am convinced that all packs that I go out with or occasionally visit are doing their utmost to comply with the law and yet 2 of them have already been dragged through the courts before being found innocent on appeal or having the case thrown out. This is not a comfortable situation to be in and we need repeal as soon as possible.

We also have to think of packs that may not be in as fortunate positions as others. Oakash will be able to explain this in greater detail - but as I understand it the Staghound packs have faced the greatest struggle of all packs to remain within the law. There are many who say it isn't the same despite these efforts and who won't visit or subscribe which puts added pressure on their finances.

So while a status quo might be a nice option for those of you whose involvement with the pack remains only as a follower or who are lucky enough to have enough exemptions to allow a passable imitation of pre-ban hunting there are others who desperately need repeal and will be doing everything in our power to ensure we can achieve this after the next election.
 
combat_claire said:
So while a status quo might be a nice option for those of you whose involvement with the pack remains only as a follower or who are lucky enough to have enough exemptions to allow a passable imitation of pre-ban hunting there are others who desperately need repeal and will be doing everything in our power to ensure we can achieve this after the next election.
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So if the government are damned if they do and damned if they don't why not take a look at the existing act and amend the bits that clearly are not working, are unenforcable and have no "legal" solid ground.

That way the government get brownie points for keeping the act, brownie points for amending the act and everyone can get back to work.

Ok so there will not be very much of the act left but omlettes and eggs...
 
There is no room for half measures, the Act needs repealing and replacing with the Hunting Regulatory Authority. As far as I can see it there aren't any bits of the Act that are working and should be retained.

The Hunting Act was a bodged job to allow some country sports such as falconry and shooting over dogs to be retained while getting at those evil hunting types. It should go as soon as we have a working majority to secure absolute repeal. The last thing we need is another messy and ambiguous piece of amended legislation.
 
rosiefronfelen said:
well, hunting hasnt changed here, i dont give a rats arse about the rest of the country and their hunting problems as i can do nothing about them-its usually at management level that problems arise anyway.
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IF you cared about hunting and had a functioning brain cell you would realise that saying things like 'hunting hasn't changed here' PROVES you don't give a rat's a*se about the rest of the country.

The vast majority of hunts are trying their hardest to continue WITHIN the law. Many are spied on constantly and any infringement of the law is likely to see huntsmen and whipper-ins arrested and charged! And - of course - apart from the worry of a court action, that means even MORE harrassment, death threats, etc. etc. for decent men trying to do their jobs well under difficult circumstances!

As for your own hunt, it wouldn't be at all hard for Mr. H. to work out which one it is from your various posts. He will then turn up - looking and acting more like a genuine hunt supporter than MOST genuine hunt supporters! WITH his hidden camera and his ability to be in the right place at the right time (for him!) Your huntsman will really appreciate you when he is arrested and charged!
 
JanetGeorge said:
IF you cared about hunting and had a functioning brain cell you would realise that saying things like 'hunting hasn't changed here' PROVES you don't give a rat's a*se about the rest of the country.

The vast majority of hunts are trying their hardest to continue WITHIN the law. Many are spied on constantly and any infringement of the law is likely to see huntsmen and whipper-ins arrested and charged! And - of course - apart from the worry of a court action, that means even MORE harrassment, death threats, etc. etc. for decent men trying to do their jobs well under difficult circumstances!

As for your own hunt, it wouldn't be at all hard for Mr. H. to work out which one it is from your various posts. He will then turn up - looking and acting more like a genuine hunt supporter than MOST genuine hunt supporters! WITH his hidden camera and his ability to be in the right place at the right time (for him!) Your huntsman will really appreciate you when he is arrested and charged!
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you, mrs george, know nothing about our hunt, of course we hunt within the law but theres nothing stopping the lamping at lambing time, which goes on wherever their are sheep.i would like to tell you how we work the hills but youare determined to be the hierarchyso i wont give you the pleasure.who is Mr.H-please have the decency to reveal his whole name,it is of no consequence if you arent brave enough. So, with that, i think there is nothing more to say between us.
 
rosiefronfelen said:
you, mrs george, know nothing about our hunt, of course we hunt within the law but theres nothing stopping the lamping at lambing time, which goes on wherever their are sheep.i would like to tell you how we work the hills but youare determined to be the hierarchyso i wont give you the pleasure.who is Mr.H-please have the decency to reveal his whole name,it is of no consequence if you arent brave enough. So, with that, i think there is nothing more to say between us.
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But you CLAIM nothing has changed. Lambing calls have changed, flushing foxes to guns has changed - I am well aware of how hill packs used to carry out fox control for the farmers and it would HAVE to change to stay within the law. Lamping has nothing to do with the Hunting Act. I do not wnt to be 'hierarchy' - I'd just like to see some sensible discussion - although it obviously won't be with you. Mr. H. is a very well-known anti who has spent more than the last 20 years (at least) infiltrating hunts with a hidden video camera (remember the 'Quorn incident' of 1991, the 'horse on the gate' case of ... mmm 1994 I think - dozens more occasions with varying consequences.) Not naming him has nothing to do with decency - I just won't feed his ego when he Googles his name!
 
Alec Swan said:
rosiefronfelen,

Such comments will be insulting to those who work towards the greater good, and will do little to help. May I point out that without the help of others, you wouldn't be hunting?

Alec.
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Well said Mr. Swan. About time that a large chunk of hunting people started looking at the bigger picture rather than taking an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude to life.
 
combat_claire said:
Well said Mr. Swan. About time that a large chunk of hunting people started looking at the bigger picture rather than taking an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude to life.
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They also need the support of non hunting communities. An Olympic swimmer is supported not just by swimming fanatics but also by people who wish them well. The concept is the same here.

Its all very good and well to say we stand together as less than 1% of the population and this is what we want... Would it not be far better and have greater impact if the 99% of the population who have no idea knew what went on, why and understood that it is not a bunch of balding, fat, upper class pompus prats gwafffing and laughing as a terribly cute and cuddly fox is torn to shreds very s l o w l y... as the LACS propoganda would suggest? Like it or not this IS what is being projected into our schools, libraries, newspapers... Like it or not this IS the image that many urban and misundersanding rural folk that have emigrated from the city sprawl see!

Its such a shame that the rural populations still have no idea of the concept of "word of mouth marketing" and how "image" can make or break just about anything these days.

Rosie - imagine if you will for a moment. Hunting faces stricter laws, it becomes harder to hunt, more and more are prosecuted... from the large hunts the movement to cull it would soon hit your beloved hills! There is no point in having an "I'm ok sod the rest of 'em" attitude because, as in any society, wether you like it or not, what affects one affects us all. Where one of us stands we must all stand. Start shouting from your hill - you have a voice, educate those ramblers to come across your land!
 
Judgemental said:
I have my hat in the air and the master is blowing Gone Away -

3001 Views and 125 comments

Going back over the forum I am having difficulty in topping that for any thread.
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JM - I am so sorry to report that there is a thread somewhere called "Soap box". It is called "the last word" posters compete to be the last...

Unless all of us flirt outragously with you for the next 8 months this thread has no hope of topping that... Having said I do think that you are still the largest in the Hunting secotion and quite an achiement!
 
Paddydou said:
JM - I am so sorry to report that there is a thread somewhere called "Soap box". It is called "the last word" posters compete to be the last...

Unless all of us flirt outragously with you for the next 8 months this thread has no hope of topping that... Having said I do think that you are still the largest in the Hunting secotion and quite an achiement!
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Paddydou do flirt a much as you wish and I hope to reciprocate - after all we are kindred spirits!

By the way it's now 5525 views and 222 posts.
 
As well as the obvious things of thanking people who have slowed down when they have met members of the mounted field, being polite to those who open the gates and general courtesy there is plenty that can be done by ordinary members of the hunt.

Get involved with your hunt supporters' club and help at events that are designed to boost PR, this might be a local show run by the hunt or just supporting one that is being run locally. I regularly help take hounds to country shows in East Anglia. Some of you may even have seen me running around the ring in my fetching blue breeks. The people who come and meet our hounds will never have been hunting, they probably don't even regularly visit the countryside and it is our job to convey that we are normal people who will welcome anyone to follow. Snotty people muttering that they are 'hinds not dawgs' will not help our cause.

Another way you can help is by getting active with your local CA committee - they organise a lot of the tradestands at events locally and regionally. I am off to Burghley tomorrow with a team of young and enthusiastic volunteers to spend the day stickering kids and helping out up at the hound pens on the cross country course.

You may think you can only do a little bit, but it is far from insignificant in winning hearts and minds.
 
If the hunting world is to regain lost ground, from the point of view of the voting public, then the welcoming process needs to be expanded.

Currently, we talk amongst ourselves, we're broadly in agreement, but what do we actually achieve? Sod all, is the answer. The general voting public, those who read the tripe dished out by the well organised antis, see hunting as an elitist sport. Geographically, we are removed from them, and because of the general lack of public understanding, we're oceans apart. The huge, and expanding, urban sprawl knows little of our world. Particularly those packs which are near to urban areas need to welcome in the general public.

Hound shows, for instance. Why not publicise them and offer a welcome to those of an enquiring mind? Whilst it would make little sense to offer puppies for walking to those who live on a housing estate, there has to be some middle ground, surely.

There are far, far more people who hunt, than there are those who are active members of the LACS. How come the LACS have a louder public voice? Field Sports are surely one of the greatest class levellers, but, trust me on this one, that is not the public perception. From the view point of Joe Bloggs who lives and works in an urban environment, we may just as well live on the moon.

EDUCATION is what's needed, and not just those children who live a streeted existence, but their parents too. That's what I think. Parliamentary pressure will NOT be enough.

Alec.

ETS, combat_claire, I've only just read your post, and before I offered my thoughts. As one, I would have thought. a
 
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Can i just say on Open/Boxing day meets they come from far and wide to see the exhibition, so where do they all go the rest of the year?? Why do hunts not make a big deal on these days to keep them coming so to speak. Rather than comments like who is that and what do they look like!
 
As a case in point I joined young volunteers from our pack up at Burghley horse trials on Saturday supporting the hunt staff who had brought hounds along to meet the kids. We were kept busy opening the gates, stickering children and answering questions. Some kids had to be physically parted from the hounds so that their parents could continue round the cross country course. If only one or two of these families left with an altered perception of hunting then it will have been 7 hours well spent.
 
JanetGeorge said:
But you CLAIM nothing has changed. Lambing calls have changed, flushing foxes to guns has changed - I am well aware of how hill packs used to carry out fox control for the farmers and it would HAVE to change to stay within the law. Lamping has nothing to do with the Hunting Act. I do not wnt to be 'hierarchy' - I'd just like to see some sensible discussion - although it obviously won't be with you. Mr. H. is a very well-known anti who has spent more than the last 20 years (at least) infiltrating hunts with a hidden video camera (remember the 'Quorn incident' of 1991, the 'horse on the gate' case of ... mmm 1994 I think - dozens more occasions with varying consequences.) Not naming him has nothing to do with decency - I just won't feed his ego when he Googles his name!
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OH please do tell me WHO Mr H is..here I be just sqirming with curiosity..a photo maybe;goodness it might even get ME out hunting again ..not the bloody duster but Mr H.:D
 
Woohoo!! Good old Charlie listened..in Folkestone he jumped into a bedroom and killed a kitten...owner says "bring back hunting". Carry on your par excellence PR Charlie :D:D
 
Its over crowding. There are far too many foxes in a small (for them) area.

Animals, like people get agressive when confinded and squashed together...

Its basic common sense! I think we will be seeing more and more stories like this and the one where the two young girls were attacked until the people who control foxes are allowed to do their job properly again.
 
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