Too Old to Foal?

KJJ

KJJ

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Hey Guys,

Have been trying to convince a friend of mine to put her wonderful pony in foal!!!
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(She has a youngster at present and is looking to loan the lady out - however I suggested perhaps now would be the time to have a ickle baby!!
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)

*excitment*

However what age would be considered too old to have a 'first' foal?

The pony is in toptop condition - is a wonderful mare and would make a super mum I'm sure..

Friend would love to do it but is worried that at 14-15 the mare is too old?

Also how much is she looking at for the whole 'process' (Not just the stud fee) to cost her? (Yes we realise it is another mouth to feed/insure etc - just a ball park would be good)

Thankies.

K xxx
 
14/15 isn't 'too old' but her chances of concieving are reduced with age if it is a first pregnancy. As for costs etc. how long is a piece of string?? You should budget for about 1500 - 2000 and hope you get change.
 
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look at bounty's post below her mare is older and in foal

[/ QUOTE ]Yes that is what inspired me to post again.. and txt friend again!!
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14/15 isn't 'too old' but her chances of concieving are reduced with age if it is a first pregnancy. As for costs etc. how long is a piece of string?? You should budget for about 1500 - 2000 and hope you get change.

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - tis what I expected!! LOL!!

She is a lovely girl.... a fab ickle jumping pony!!
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Wipes the floor with the 'posh' local big boys!! hehe!!
 
Well, Tills has just conceived first time as an 18 year old maiden.
Including a stud fee of £450 and 5 days livery we've spent £736.15 so far on the initial examination/scans/swabs/oxytoxin injection and antibiotic wash out, but haven't had the bills in yet for todays scan, her previous scan and her prostaglandin injection.
I would say she should get a vet that is expereincd in breeding to examine the mare thoroughly before making any big decisions!
 
£1500 to get in foal

£1000 per year plus to raise it

so £5500 to get the foal to age 4

IS IT WORTH IT ?????

plus a 15 yr old pony is a 45 yr old human - and the risks of a first pregnancy associated with that age

don't both
 
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£1500 to get in foal

£1000 per year plus to raise it

so £5500 to get the foal to age 4

IS IT WORTH IT ?????

[/ QUOTE ]Ermmmmm????? What a negative post... is it worth it? TBH chick you couldn't put a price on a 'baby' from a horse that you have owned/loved/perservered and adored since you were a young child... so really being 'worth' it YES it would be....

the risks would obv be an issue... hence the deliberation...
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plus a 15 yr old pony is a 45 yr old human - and the risks of a first pregnancy associated with that age

don't both

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmm again... pretty negative... appreciate your opinion but loko at the HUMANS that get pregnant for the first time past the age of 45!!

Thanks for you slant on things.
 
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Well, Tills has just conceived first time as an 18 year old maiden.
Including a stud fee of £450 and 5 days livery we've spent £736.15 so far on the initial examination/scans/swabs/oxytoxin injection and antibiotic wash out, but haven't had the bills in yet for todays scan, her previous scan and her prostaglandin injection.
I would say she should get a vet that is expereincd in breeding to examine the mare thoroughly before making any big decisions!

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks chick.. for sure a experienced vet (in breeding field) would be contacted etc... the decision would not be taken lightly...

Thanks chick.. good luck with your girly. x
 
Thankyou! And I know exactly what you are saying about breeding from a mare that means something special to you... money becomes no object!
Just to add that when we first toyed with the idea of breeding from Tills we were very uncertain about it and the risks of her being older. We had her examined by the vet who was incredibly enthusiastic about it all, and didn't think that her age was a problem at all. If anything we'd expected him to suggest that we gave it a miss, so were pleasantly surprised.
Cazza is breeding from her mare as well, and she's not sure whether she's 19 or 24.
 
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Thankyou! And I know exactly what you are saying about breeding from a mare that means something special to you... money becomes no object!
Just to add that when we first toyed with the idea of breeding from Tills we were very uncertain about it and the risks of her being older. We had her examined by the vet who was incredibly enthusiastic about it all, and didn't think that her age was a problem at all. If anything we'd expected him to suggest that we gave it a miss, so were pleasantly surprised.
Cazza is breeding from her mare as well, and she's not sure whether she's 19 or 24.

[/ QUOTE ]Interesting - as in humans I guess each case would be individual etc.

Thanks. x
 
My lovely 20 year old pony has just had her second foal, 10 years after her first, which she rejected horribly, and so far everything has gone like clockwork (touch wood). She loves it to bits and I was lucky and the foal is exactly what I had hoped for.

I thought long and hard about whether to put her in foal, largely because of the problems we encountered the first time, and because of her age I accepted that the chance of her conceiving was reduced. In the end it was very straight forward and she held to the first insemination.

No one sensible breeds to get a cheap horse, but if you are reaslistic and are aware of the pitfalls it is incredibly satisfying. I would go for it, particularly if, like my mare, she is a healthy older horse without much else to do at the moment!
 
wasn't being 'negative' was being the opposite of 'oh go ahead and do it'

there ARE risks and you COULD end up with a dead mare and a dead foal - THAT is always a risk with breeding - you have to assess whether you are prepared that by putting your mare in foal she could end up dead. I totally agree that the same applies to eventing your horse or taking it on the road or lots of other things

However if you goto the National Foaling Bank website they have a table of the foaling problems and the number ofmares they've been involved with that have had these problems

When you see the list of about 25 (iirc) different issues and the number of mares over a number of years you have to take on board the risks

I also went to a vet update lecture on breeding this april run by my vets to keep me up to date - and they specifically stated the increased risks with maiden mares aged 15 or more

that is why with all my mares I breed from them first and then let them have a competition career and then breed from the later if I want to - that way their 'insides' have stretched before and the risks of a foaling in the older mare are much reduced.

The reason for the 'negative' (realistic) costings are that they ARE realistic. Would you really spend 5500 quid on a 4 yr old out of that mare by stallion X ?

If the answer is yes - and you think the mare will cope - AND you have the money to do this - then by all means go ahead

However I look at each life in the form of a foal I bring into the world and consider whether I can offer that foal a good and happy long term future to the best of my ability - and that if I had to cease to look after it and sell it - would it be the sort of foal/pony/horse that would be attractive to someone else as an owner that would give it a long term home and love it ?

If the answer to that question is no - or so what - then again - don't breed - there are too many ponies sold on and on and on from pillar to post and kept in livery yards owned by well meaning but ignorant owners and run by less than well meaning YOs (we get plenty of posts on here about those !)

a horse has a life expectancy of 25 years on average - think whether what you breed will be sound enough and nice enough to warrant being owned and loved until that age

again - sorry if it's an 'unpopular' answer - if the answer above is NO then don't breed !!
 
I'm no expert or any where near in terms of foals, but a good friend of mine, her mare who is 18 just foaled a beautiful chestnut colt. It was a risk at her age but the pregnancy and birth went smoothly. She had her first foal at 15 but he sadly had to be pts as a yearly, she then made the decision to put her mare to the same stallion a few years later and it paid off!
 
Its not too old as long as the mare is healthy and checked by a vet.

My 2 were 14 and 15 when put in-foal and so will be 15 and 16 when they (eventually) give birth. I've know a LOT older mares of around 20, and a maiden, to have healthy foals. But just remember foaling is risky and expensive.
 
Oldest maiden of my own, we have put several 16yo's infoal as they were slowing down from careers, all took first time except one she took 3 attempts but ahas since taken first time for her next 2 foals.
Oldest maiden we have had in was 18 at covering and she took second attempt.
My oldest broodmare is 22 and just foaled (to a 28yo stallion!!!)
Older mares can be more differcult to get pregnant but I seem to have more luck with the older mares than the younger ones! (But i've always been contrary!)

Alot of the time you won't get your money back that you have invested in breeding a foal but their is nothing better than the feeling of getting a healthy foal on the floor, they can be very heartbreaking too if you get problems but thats horses they are never straight forward.

Read the Betty Bug story in the breeding section for persistance! I first started to try and get Betty in foal when she was 10/11 6 years later I finally have a foal!
 
see my post in reply above

also - humans that get pregnant at 45 - their kids are 18 when they are 63!!!!

and as a kid from aged parents I can tell you in spades that THIS ISN'T FUN
elderly parents are a pain and you lead a dogs life - believe me - I've had first hand experience
and you end up being a carer instead of having a childhood or teenage years

I'm not being 'negative' I'm being realistic
if you don't like an answer that doesn't agree with fluffy cute and oh go ahead - then don't ask the question - not everyone thinks everyone's ideas are wonderful - just not everyone is blunt enough to say so !!!
 
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see my post in reply above

I'm not being 'negative' I'm being realistic
if you don't like an answer that doesn't agree with fluffy cute and oh go ahead - then don't ask the question - not everyone thinks everyone's ideas are wonderful - just not everyone is blunt enough to say so !!!

[/ QUOTE ]Excuse me!!!!!
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I think if you read my reply above I said you 'slant' was appreciated..I wouldn't have asked was it too old if I didn't want to be told YES by some users!! ... I would have said... YAY friend is putting mare in foal @15yrs how exciting - don't comment on age!!!
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Jeezus...your perspective if a VERY closed one... as you can see from others informative replies some are for/against it... some are experiencing it with older mares!!
(you may yourself had had a bad/difficult experience with an older mare,hence your views I do not know)

Thank you everyone for your replies...my friend has actually read this post and is going to speak with her vet as is now confident that her mare isn't TOO old in terms of age... but will speak to vet re- physical effects/capability and will see how it goes from there.
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[ QUOTE ]
also - humans that get pregnant at 45 - their kids are 18 when they are 63!!!!

and as a kid from aged parents I can tell you in spades that THIS ISN'T FUN
elderly parents are a pain and you lead a dogs life - believe me - I've had first hand experience
and you end up being a carer instead of having a childhood or teenage years


[/ QUOTE ]Now that is the most ridiculous reply IMO!!! I was using the human age as an example that older ladies can have kids...

The mare would not be expected to 'bring' the foal up through teenage years - sorry am PMSL here... what a silly thing to say!!!
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Thank you once again everyone for your responses, those experience, suggestions, warnings and funny ones.
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there ARE risks and you COULD end up with a dead mare and a dead foal

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This is the main reason why I would never suggest/persuade anyone to breed from their mare - if something went dreadfully wrong the owner would look to push blame onto that person.
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The mare is at the older end of what I would feel comfortable with a maiden, but it has to be her decision and good luck whatever she decides.

Cloud was 13 when she concieved, 14 when she gave birth - everything was story-book perfect....however she was not a maiden, she had foaled previously at 4 years old.
 
Well Bloss is 14, and 15 next year and shes now 51 days pregnant with her first foal, and took first time to frozen semen aswell.

All in all the vets bill including the pre pregnancy tests/AI, numerous scans and 3 nights/3 days staying at the vets was £600.

Shes now had all her scans so if everything goes ok from here then it shouldnt cost me anymore until the foal is born. Obviously stallion fees vary so it depends what stallion is chosen aswell.

As long as the mare is fit and healthy and well looked after then it really shouldnt be a problem.
 
Just get a good equine vet to examine her, one you trust & they will advise you. Mares like anything else are at risk & like anything else a higher risk the older they are. Good luck, & if your friend does go ahead, hope all goes well for them both.
 
Asti is about to turn 15 in a few weeks, and so will be nearly 16 when and if she foals.

Vet checked her over and as a fit and previously competition fit mare that had had no major injuries/illnesses - said she's be fine, and certainly didn't look her age.

Given that I bred her and delivered her, she will always be my baby and the most soecial horse, so I have had to think long and hard about the risks. As devastating as losing a foal would be, its nothing to what losing her would be.

I decided that I will give it one chance - this year - through natural covering and if its not to be, then that will be it. If she does take then fantastic and I will do everything I can to ensure a healthy mare and foal.

In the end I decided that its worth the risk in order to breed off HER so that in years to come when she's not around, I will still have a little piece of her in the foal. It will be kept as mine for life, as far as you can plan these things.

Cost - so far - £40 for swab and lab work! Thats it... well keep fees at £15/week but not paid any yet as she's not been there that long.
 
GM - you have summed up EXACTLY what I went through when I decided to breed Cloud.....particularly the point about losing the foal being far less significant to losing the mare - I would have recovered from losing a foal, but I would have been absolutely devastated if anything had happened to Cloud.

Good point about natural covering though - that is the only way I would breed an older mare using pasture breeding.
 
my mare foaled at 16.
got in foal AI first time no probs.

foaling isnt the cheapest easiest option.in fatc its pretty risky.
unless they REALLY want this foal and the mare is breed worthy i wouldnt want to rty to convince them

basic costs average 3k from conception to 6months provided nothing goes wrong(foals under 30 days arent insurable)
 
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foaling isnt the cheapest easiest option.in fatc its pretty risky.

[/ QUOTE ] Sadly that is too true - within the last fortnight I've known one person lose a foal and another one lose a mare
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Go for it KJFIT! Bountys mare proves it can be done.

You can't compare horses ages to humans, Sandy was 18 when he went around Badders and Burghley - how many 72y.o's ride around Badminton or Burghley?

Yes she may need washing out and maybe injected in e.t.c but it will be worth it. It doesn't cost a grand a year to raise a foal, studs work on a basis of adding £500.00 from foal price per year.

When mum was in with the arabs one stud covered a 22y.o maiden who took first time so it really is down the the individual horse.

Good luck!
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[ QUOTE ]
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foaling isnt the cheapest easiest option.in fatc its pretty risky.

[/ QUOTE ] Sadly that is too true - within the last fortnight I've known one person lose a foal and another one lose a mare
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I'm not saying it is TGM but sometimes that is down to lack of knowledge...yes foaling is risky and there are major complications in 1 in 10 cases but I know of one foal this year that was healthy but died because the so called breeders were muppets! We didn't lose one in 25 mares for two years at the stud! Pretty lucky!
 
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