Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Yes, the fact that pliance doesn't take readings over the spine was something that I picked up on too.
Total contact saddle
- Thread starter saskiahorsey
- Start date
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Just loading a couple of pics....
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
I've lifted the stirrup bars, so that they are more visible.
and..
and..
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Really not much more than a strap with a bit of padding is it? I'm amazed it doesn't cause problems.
Can you do rising trot or do you essentially ride bareback style with the stirrups just being somewhere to keep your feet?
Can you do rising trot or do you essentially ride bareback style with the stirrups just being somewhere to keep your feet?
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
That's really helpful BM, thanks. 
I had been thinking about this and I did think that if the pressure over the spine was a big issue, you'd surely get ulceration of the skin or wounds like you see with, for example, the PFK horses in Egypt. I'm certainly open minded to the idea that a treeless saddle doesn't have to have the same configuration as a treed saddle, but I'd still love to see a pressure test taken over the whole area of contact.
I had been thinking about this and I did think that if the pressure over the spine was a big issue, you'd surely get ulceration of the skin or wounds like you see with, for example, the PFK horses in Egypt. I'm certainly open minded to the idea that a treeless saddle doesn't have to have the same configuration as a treed saddle, but I'd still love to see a pressure test taken over the whole area of contact.
saskiahorsey
Well-Known Member
They're BS legal, not BE (because need tradtional english tack for dressage) and not BD legal (same thing again)
I used one as my only saddle for 2 years, competed at about 1.10m SJ, jumped up to 1.40m at home, been XC etc, no problems at all, and no pressure points, physio who has known horse for years has said she'd never seen this horses back be so straight and relaxed, horse was also a lot more relaxed to ride, quite a spooky mare usually, but in this, the spookiness reduced by at least 50%, and any spooks there were coming up, you could feel and correct before they escalated. I love love love this saddle, cannot recommend it enough!
It improves your feel and your seat, and your balance, you learn to stop relying on the saddle to hold you in place, but to actually ride and hold yourself on the horse!
Regarding, shires gel half pad to sit on, go for it OP, it is fabulous, that's what I had on my mare and OMG heaven for your bum
I'm happy to answer any questions you may have if you want to know more, just PM me
Thanks for the info....yes i have seen your pictures and read a few of your posts regarding the saddle... i just think it is remarkable how i cant find a horse with marks pressure spots bad back etc....i looked at these a few years back and was not convinced by them...but having struggled and struggled and still no saddle treed or treeless i started looking into them again....it is pretty obvious that from the updates etc people who are using them are very happy and most are seeing positive results in their riding but most important no one seems to have had a horse have a sore back etc.... i think they have been around for more than 5 years now so i guess youd think there would be one post about a horse with pressure issues !!
Anyway i cant wait to try it ... it should be with me next week
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Just thought I'd post this pic, in case anyone was interested. Started with a clean pad, rode for about 45 mins. and this is how it looks after.
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Double post.
Casey76
Well-Known Member
I've looked at these time and time again, and I'm just not convinced that the pressure distribution is large enough to not cause some discomfort.
In the photos posted there seems to be at least 4 areas of increased pressure - where the webbing for the billets is stiched in (a ridge of leather), and obviously when weight is put into the stirrups.
Depending on both horse and rider conformation, either or both parties may find riding/being ridden "bareback" uncomfortable (boney bottoms/ lack of topline etc)
With properly fitted "traditional" saddles the panels are fitted so that they clear the spinal processes, but are also not so wide apart that they weight bear solely on the ligament attacments to the spinal processes.
Having said that - it's horses for courses I need something with a lot of security due to my balance and proprioception issues
In the photos posted there seems to be at least 4 areas of increased pressure - where the webbing for the billets is stiched in (a ridge of leather), and obviously when weight is put into the stirrups.
Depending on both horse and rider conformation, either or both parties may find riding/being ridden "bareback" uncomfortable (boney bottoms/ lack of topline etc)
With properly fitted "traditional" saddles the panels are fitted so that they clear the spinal processes, but are also not so wide apart that they weight bear solely on the ligament attacments to the spinal processes.
Having said that - it's horses for courses
I need something with a lot of security due to my balance and proprioception issues
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Just thought I'd post this pic, in case anyone was interested. Started with a clean pad, rode for about 45 mins. and this is how it looks after.
Try again!
Try again!
*hic*
village idiot :D
I've looked at these time and time again, and I'm just not convinced that the pressure distribution is large enough to not cause some discomfort.
In the photos posted there seems to be at least 4 areas of increased pressure - where the webbing for the billets is stiched in (a ridge of leather), and obviously when weight is put into the stirrups.
Depending on both horse and rider conformation, either or both parties may find riding/being ridden "bareback" uncomfortable (boney bottoms/ lack of topline etc)
With properly fitted "traditional" saddles the panels are fitted so that they clear the spinal processes, but are also not so wide apart that they weight bear solely on the ligament attacments to the spinal processes.
Having said that - it's horses for courses
Remember that less of the weight of the rider is going through any part of the saddle - the bearing surface is that under the rider's arse and especially thighs.
You might find that your balance and proprioception issues would be helped by a total contact saddle. With one it becomes very obvious when you are off balance, even repositioning the head of the rider has an immediate and noticeable effect. Being off balance in a normal saddle means that you are twisting the saddle on the horse - the same forces as when mounting from the ground except that instead of it being for a short while it's all the time.
Casey76
Well-Known Member
My balance and proprioception issues arise from a brain injury I received when I was 16, and are slowly getting worse as I get older. I have a tendency to list to one side even though my brain tells me I'm staying straight which can make me feel very unsafe if I don't have certain visual and physical cues. Any of the "normal" balance improving exercises (lunging with eyes shut, no reins etc) are completely counter intuitive with me. If I sit with my eyes closed on a horse (or even on a chair tbh) I will list until I fall off, even though I think I'm sitting straight. It is extremely annoying and confidence destroying.
*hic*
village idiot :D
Doubtless your physios would have their opinion, but as you tilt off the vertical at all a bareback horse will turn, giving you a very clear idea that whatever your brain says is straight and upright is not appearing so to the horse and giving you an indication that you need to alter your posture. Whether these big signals would help with your particular issues I don't know. I just looked to see whether you were near me in case you wanted to try one of my horses with a total contact saddle. My big mare is very responsive but kind and gentle, however, different countries.
You have my sympathies with acquired balance issues, my husband's brain injury has also affected his balance and especially his ability to recover it quickly. Being around horses I am always worried that one of them will knock him and he will fall, but they almost seem to understand that he needs the space. When he was re-learning to walk I used to get him to "lead" my Section D and the pony would walk down to his (slow) speed and allow him to keep a hand on his withers to maintain a straight line and balance. Wonderful things horses.
You have my sympathies with acquired balance issues, my husband's brain injury has also affected his balance and especially his ability to recover it quickly. Being around horses I am always worried that one of them will knock him and he will fall, but they almost seem to understand that he needs the space. When he was re-learning to walk I used to get him to "lead" my Section D and the pony would walk down to his (slow) speed and allow him to keep a hand on his withers to maintain a straight line and balance. Wonderful things horses.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
are the stirrup bars attached to eachother with webbing?
dollyanna
Well-Known Member
I need something with a lot of security due to my balance and proprioception issues
Maybe it wouldn't work for you - you'd never know without trying - but more and more RDA and riders with disabilities are using the saddles because of the extra contact with the pony and the freedom to adapt to each rider. Certainly one of the ponies I have ridden with mine was far more secure with the TCS than her normal saddle - usually I feel very perched and insecure, as if there is no real contact or feel through the saddle.
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Nope. Stitched and riveted to the flap.
saskiahorsey
Well-Known Member
Well a little update ... Saddle arrived yesterday i was impressed with the quality lovely leather and well made ... Rode mare in arena to get used to it she went very well ... I used a thick sheepskin numnah a gel pad and a half pad for my bum... Took about 10 mins to get the hang of it but must say felt very very secure...my mare is quite sharp and spun a couple of times at horses in the field but i felt safe ... Anyway rode again today as i knew physio was coming to assess my other horse and wanted to ride a bit longer in and have him check her .... Well i even dared leave the arena lol..the only problem i did have was the buckles from stirrups heart my thighs so i need a very very short set of tbar ones ( anyone any ideas)
So physio checked mare not one sore area on her back at all...she was tight in her hamstrings ongoing issue but her back was great ... Early days but so far im pleased with it
So physio checked mare not one sore area on her back at all...she was tight in her hamstrings ongoing issue but her back was great ... Early days but so far im pleased with it
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
saskiahorsey
Well-Known Member
Thanks faracat they look perfect ��
Regandal
Well-Known Member
I'm going to have to try one. My warmblood has a massive wither, and almost a 'step' down to his back. His wither is roughly 8" above where you should sit. Throw in a huge shoulder and conventional saddles go out the window. This sounds promising!
toothfairy87
New User
kez81
Well-Known Member
I have one for sale if anyones interested
I might be interested in having another to add my collection lol, pmd you
lara b
Well-Known Member
I have one for sale if anyones interested
Don't suppose you still have this for sale?!
Artax
Well-Known Member
Having tried one recently and looking for more opinions, I can only add that my experience was largely positive.
The pressure points worried me, however, you really learn to sit differently in the TC. I am/was a rider that applied pressure mostly n the stirrups as it turned out and if I continued in the TC, I think there could be pressure points. I have learned to sit more with a "wrapping" of my seat and thighs and with hardly any pressure in the stirrup at all (for fear of the pp) and have become a lot more stable and still in my riding.
Horse definitely more forward in this and way more relaxed - I was pleasantly surprised. I hope they don't ask for it back any time soon as I will have to buy one!
The pressure points worried me, however, you really learn to sit differently in the TC. I am/was a rider that applied pressure mostly n the stirrups as it turned out and if I continued in the TC, I think there could be pressure points. I have learned to sit more with a "wrapping" of my seat and thighs and with hardly any pressure in the stirrup at all (for fear of the pp) and have become a lot more stable and still in my riding.
Horse definitely more forward in this and way more relaxed - I was pleasantly surprised. I hope they don't ask for it back any time soon as I will have to buy one!
foxy1
Well-Known Member
My friend had one to try and both her and her trainer rode in it. Main issue she had is that you sit so far behind the stirrup bar, it puts you in a 'chair seat' position and so it's more difficult in rising trot particularly to hold yourself when sitting. Horse is sensitive admittedly but visibly dipped her back away from the rider when in the sit phase of rising trot. This happened both when owner and trainer rode the horse. The saddle was returned.
Artax
Well-Known Member
Certainly foxy1 this was my experience to begin with. It's my fault though as I rode in a chair seat and mainly used my stirrups for balance - which is actually a very ineffective way to ride I discovered. I had been taught this way for many years though by many trainers so it's not my fault. What can I say?
How long had they been riding in it? I only ask because after a few weeks I found my seat changed a lot. For me particularly, I felt its better. Don't know for anyone else. Its good for showing your true riding .
How long had they been riding in it? I only ask because after a few weeks I found my seat changed a lot. For me particularly, I felt its better. Don't know for anyone else. Its good for showing your true riding .
MrsNorris
Well-Known Member
This is my concern about them too, I currently ride in a HM flexEE dressage which has stirrup bars far back and I really love the classical position that it promotes, but my horse has some hind end issues which make working over his back harder so am tempted to try one of these.
Can you place them further back so that the stirrup bars are in a better place? I've never seen one in real life, so have no idea how or where they would have to sit if you placed them so the stirrup bars allowed a classical seat.
dollyanna
Well-Known Member
I have no problems keeping a good leg position other than my own physical difficulties. If anything I find it easier to keep a good seat, and over time have been able to lengthen the stirrups to match. If you place it far forward then yes, the stirrup bars will be forward, but if you place it further back behind the withers it sits well I find.
As for pressure, I have been using it for my youngster and there have been absolutely no pressure marks whatsoever, after any ride. No heat, no tenderness, no marks, nothing. Also have had the advantage of feeling exactly when her back tired in her first few rides so was able to jump off if we still had a way to get home, or judge the distances she was comfortable doing without risking working her through a fatigued back, which has meant all her rides finish well.
You do need a good seat ie good balance, but if you have that there is no reason for a horse backing away from it unless there is a physical problem or the rider's balance isn't good enough to control their downwards movement. They do look as if they shouldn't work, and they should cause pressure, and they should slip, but I have used mine on several horses now and felt completely safe, all horses went very well in it, and never had any pressure marks. When I ride I can feel where my weight is being distributed and it is certainly not over the spine - most of it goes down around the ribcage via my thighs.
As for pressure, I have been using it for my youngster and there have been absolutely no pressure marks whatsoever, after any ride. No heat, no tenderness, no marks, nothing. Also have had the advantage of feeling exactly when her back tired in her first few rides so was able to jump off if we still had a way to get home, or judge the distances she was comfortable doing without risking working her through a fatigued back, which has meant all her rides finish well.
You do need a good seat ie good balance, but if you have that there is no reason for a horse backing away from it unless there is a physical problem or the rider's balance isn't good enough to control their downwards movement. They do look as if they shouldn't work, and they should cause pressure, and they should slip, but I have used mine on several horses now and felt completely safe, all horses went very well in it, and never had any pressure marks. When I ride I can feel where my weight is being distributed and it is certainly not over the spine - most of it goes down around the ribcage via my thighs.
Artax
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, this saddle will show ALL your faults as a rider. You cannot have a lazy body in it... you core, hips and back will reveal every weakness. Make sure you position the saddle as described in the guidelines. It makes a huge difference.
I had been hiding behind knee rolls and a deep seated saddle to make my life easy. Take those away and all was exposed. I was as weak as weak could be. I did get a bit upset to be quite honest... rejecting the saddle and making my own excuses up! Gawd, you shoulda heard them lol!
Anyway, weirdly it all coincided with a hernia diagnosis. I'd been pretty stressed anyway. You can imagine.. anyway, so... I faced my demons! Took a lot of courage, even though I can seem steely, I'm not at all. I took up bodywork, started running, lost weight, felt amazing and carried on with the saddle.
I am at the point where I do not know if I can go back to a normal saddle... eeeek!!
chattyday84
Member
I have a welsh sec c in this saddle and after doing exactly what you have, and spending fortunes on treed saddles and saddle fitters! Resulting in a very sore problem bucker, i have been using this for a year now and she is perfect and so am I! We jump hunt hack xc sponsored rides everything in only this saddle with a square and a half pad! Feel free to find me on fb and view my images of said saddle and pony, i have also had physio back lady and saddler back out who have found no fault in her or saddle at all! This little horse is the happiest on my yard competes regularly, now 30% of my yard own one of these saddles and have had the same result from there horses one being a 17hh ID who is terrified of standard saddles due to pain relation memories so we have been led to believe, if theyou caused any pain or problem they would not have been approved for sale or approved for use in BSJA or BD even showing, please give this wonderful object a try I love mine more each time I ride