Total contact saddle

[chattyday84]

You will just go with him hunni mine throws a multitude of shapes and i never budge but fly off miles from a standard saddle lol

 

[chattyday84]

You don't sit on the saddle and you should be evenly riding to not place all your weight in stirrups even when rising! Try rising without stirrups for a while same principal

 

[lara b]

I have a welsh sec c in this saddle and after doing exactly what you have, and spending fortunes on treed saddles and saddle fitters! Resulting in a very sore problem bucker, i have been using this for a year now and she is perfect and so am I! We jump hunt hack xc sponsored rides everything in only this saddle with a square and a half pad! Feel free to find me on fb and view my images of said saddle and pony, i have also had physio back lady and saddler back out who have found no fault in her or saddle at all! This little horse is the happiest on my yard competes regularly, now 30% of my yard own one of these saddles and have had the same result from there horses one being a 17hh ID who is terrified of standard saddles due to pain relation memories so we have been led to believe, if theyou caused any pain or problem they would not have been approved for sale or approved for use in BSJA or BD even showing, please give this wonderful object a try I love mine more each time I ride

Hiya, do you know if they are approved for BD? I know one lady did use hers for dressage but the BD rule book can be quite specific and I'm not sure if BD will allow? Thanks

 

[sazzleforsyth]

They're BS legal, not BE (because need tradtional english tack for dressage) and not BD legal (same thing again)
I used one as my only saddle for 2 years, competed at about 1.10m SJ, jumped up to 1.40m at home, been XC etc, no problems at all, and no pressure points, physio who has known horse for years has said she'd never seen this horses back be so straight and relaxed, horse was also a lot more relaxed to ride, quite a spooky mare usually, but in this, the spookiness reduced by at least 50%, and any spooks there were coming up, you could feel and correct before they escalated. I love love love this saddle, cannot recommend it enough!
It improves your feel and your seat, and your balance, you learn to stop relying on the saddle to hold you in place, but to actually ride and hold yourself on the horse!
Regarding, shires gel half pad to sit on, go for it OP, it is fabulous, that's what I had on my mare and OMG heaven for your bum
I'm happy to answer any questions you may have if you want to know more, just PM me

Did you compete bsja in the TCS?

 

[Pinkvboots]

Did you compete bsja in the TCS?

I don't think that poster comes on here much anymore it's a thread from 2017, i would recommend starting a new one as rules may also have changed since then.

 

[sazzleforsyth]

Ok thanks

I don't think that poster comes on here much anymore it's a thread from 2017, i would recommend starting a new one as rules may also have changed since then.

For your message

 

[AntiPuck]

There is an active Facebook group called Total Contact Saddle Community, where you'd be able to find a lot of info - do a search in there for 'bsja', for example

 

[Fieldlife]

BD definitely do not currently allow TCS need a cantle.

I do think TCS like anything works for some horses and not others. Partly depends on shape of horses back, and partly depends on the quality of pads used underneath. IMO

 

[Malicob23]

Saskihorsey did you get a tcs in the end please?

I'm toying with the notion of riding either with a bareback pad or total contact saddle, and the latter uses stirrups.
I've looked at the Facebook group for the tcs and to be honest I'm afraid if I ask it will look as if I'm being inflammatory as almost everyone on there seems delighted with theirs and there's no indication they feel they haven't got value for money. I've looked at the reviews for both types of tack, the physio bareback pads and the tcs and again, the effects on the horses look positive and riders in both cases say it improves their own core fitness and balance which is one reason I'm looking at them. The other is that I'm not young and even my ghost saddle starts to feel heavy on my arms these days. The way forward seems to go lighter and improve my fitness to support my failing joints.
I just can't help but wonder about the incredible amounts of padding people are buying and using so at the back of my mind and I mean no offence here, it's almost like you buy a simple surcingle then try to make it into a saddle, spending lots as you go on padding and seats and appendages.
Of course some aren't using all the extras but the majority look as if they've spent the same amount as an actual saddle, except they've only alot of pads furs and a leather surcingle to show for it. I might be missing the point and I'm open to that.
Perhaps you don't factor the cost but
I'm struck by how well the tcs holds is value. People pay more than a couple of hundred for a second hand one.
On this website there's a vaulting (I won't be doing much of that except but accident!) surcingle for a fraction of the cost and I'm struggling to see a proper difference from that and the tcs. https://www.myselleria.co.uk/P0934-riding-roller-and-horse-therapy?rdc=3
I see you can trial tcs but that's quite expensive and I'm not sure a couple of weeks would be long enough since the point to me was to get long term improvement to my core and balance. I must stress I'm not implying anything bad about either the tcs or bareback pads, but are they worth the money and do they actually have benefits to the horse's way of going and their backs? I also note maybe the effort of carrying my current saddle and lifting it carefully over my horse's back could be seen as a positive to my fitness , if you see what I mean!!

 

[sbloom]

Having met up with one of the bodyworkers I respect the most last week and her saying she dislikes them as much as I do, I still can't recommend. I only know one professional from my entire network that rates them.

@Malicob23 have a look at the Equestrian Fitness Institute or similar, there are so many off horse, tailored (I don't recommend ones not based on a 1 to 1 assessment) programmes available to help you stay as strong and functional as possible for riding (specific to riding).

As for the vaulting roller, definite no - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0737080618301035

 

[SEL]

@Malicob23
There's only positive feedback on the TCS site because negative feedback is not allowed!

See if you can borrow one. I borrowed the one my friend had collecting dust and it killed my back and by ride 3 (with loads of padding) the pony gave me a filthy look when I suggested she wear it again.

They are marmite from a rider's perspective and that's before you add in the impact on the horse.

 

[Malicob23]

Thank you! It's hard to find anyone willing to say categorically no to them, but I'm starting to get why now

 

[maya2008]

Saskihorsey did you get a tcs in the end please?

I'm toying with the notion of riding either with a bareback pad or total contact saddle, and the latter uses stirrups.
I've looked at the Facebook group for the tcs and to be honest I'm afraid if I ask it will look as if I'm being inflammatory as almost everyone on there seems delighted with theirs and there's no indication they feel they haven't got value for money. I've looked at the reviews for both types of tack, the physio bareback pads and the tcs and again, the effects on the horses look positive and riders in both cases say it improves their own core fitness and balance which is one reason I'm looking at them. The other is that I'm not young and even my ghost saddle starts to feel heavy on my arms these days. The way forward seems to go lighter and improve my fitness to support my failing joints.
I just can't help but wonder about the incredible amounts of padding people are buying and using so at the back of my mind and I mean no offence here, it's almost like you buy a simple surcingle then try to make it into a saddle, spending lots as you go on padding and seats and appendages.
Of course some aren't using all the extras but the majority look as if they've spent the same amount as an actual saddle, except they've only alot of pads furs and a leather surcingle to show for it. I might be missing the point and I'm open to that.
Perhaps you don't factor the cost but
I'm struck by how well the tcs holds is value. People pay more than a couple of hundred for a second hand one.
On this website there's a vaulting (I won't be doing much of that except but accident!) surcingle for a fraction of the cost and I'm struggling to see a proper difference from that and the tcs. https://www.myselleria.co.uk/P0934-riding-roller-and-horse-therapy?rdc=3
I see you can trial tcs but that's quite expensive and I'm not sure a couple of weeks would be long enough since the point to me was to get long term improvement to my core and balance. I must stress I'm not implying anything bad about either the tcs or bareback pads, but are they worth the money and do they actually have benefits to the horse's way of going and their backs? I also note maybe the effort of carrying my current saddle and lifting it carefully over my horse's back could be seen as a positive to my fitness , if you see what I mean!!

My kids love theirs, but it is very much a concept where you have to use common sense and understand a little about pressure distribution. Many people who ride with minimal padding seem to walk mostly.

I see it as a kind of ‘build your own saddle’ idea. It is your responsibility to the horse to pad appropriately for the work being done. For us, that is speedy hacking, schooling and jumping. Under ours we therefore have padding to create a spinal channel and to distribute pressure. There are comments on the Facebook group where people have had issues and have needed to upgrade the padding they were using.

I don’t see them as much different from a Thorn pad - and we padded under those. These are more stable laterally though.

As said above, the Facebook group is moderated by the lady who makes them. Maybe ask around on other treeless groups?

 

[Malicob23]

I was almost teetering on the edge of buying one last week then spotted someone on one of the tcs groups picturing her horse with what someone called a bloom of white hairs. Being old fashioned I've always thought that means one thing only, too much pressure, but I read on and some were saying its not anything to worry about etc.
I wasn't convinced so it stopped me

 

[sbloom]

I was almost teetering on the edge of buying one last week then spotted someone on one of the tcs groups picturing her horse with what someone called a bloom of white hairs. Being old fashioned I've always thought that means one thing only, too much pressure, but I read on and some were saying its not anything to worry about etc.
I wasn't convinced so it stopped me

In the early days most photos showed, to educated eyes, some "interesting" musculature/posture.

 

[SEL]

My kids love theirs, but it is very much a concept where you have to use common sense and understand a little about pressure distribution. Many people who ride with minimal padding seem to walk mostly.

I see it as a kind of ‘build your own saddle’ idea. It is your responsibility to the horse to pad appropriately for the work being done. For us, that is speedy hacking, schooling and jumping. Under ours we therefore have padding to create a spinal channel and to distribute pressure. There are comments on the Facebook group where people have had issues and have needed to upgrade the padding they were using.

I don’t see them as much different from a Thorn pad - and we padded under those.

It's a bit different for kids IMO. Yours are little and Shetlands and welshies might be tiny but they're very sturdy. I wince when I see adults on cobs riding in a TCS because I just can't see how the pressure is spread away from the riders bum.

 

[Malicob23]

I'm taller older and my weight has to be really kept in check. When I bought my ghost saddle I was especially aware of the rider weight limits all the treeless companies suggest and I work at staying well clear of the limit. I asked a tcs seller about rider weight but they told me there's no weight limit they're actually better suited to tall heavier more padded riders who might otherwise struggle to fit a saddle to suit a short backed horse. I'm not convinced tbh even with keeping my own weight under control in rider to horse ratio. My cob is also carrying too much of her own timber at the moment so she doesn't need anyone else's extra. It's an emotive subject, but I've seen pictures of people using tcs that make me wince I can't deny it.

 

[Peglo]

I wince when I see adults on cobs riding in a TCS because I just can't see how the pressure is spread away from the riders bum.

I’ve too been intrigued by all the positive feedback on FB but if they don’t allow negative feedback that will be why I’ve been wondering about these saddles since I was in a lesson with someone riding her cob in one.

I was always most concerned about the pressure through the stirrups and tiny bit of leather but do you think the pressure from the riders bum is more of an issue?

 

[Malicob23]

For me it's the lure of the lightweight pared down tack that draws me in, a set up that says you'll ride more naturally and your horse and you will move freely as nature intended. Who wouldn't want that?! The reality might be an unrideable sore horse a pile of pads skins and breastplates and a nasty fall I guess. I'm interested to know all sides nonetheless.

 

[sbloom]

For me it's the lure of the lightweight pared down tack that draws me in, a set up that says you'll ride more naturally and your horse and you will move freely as nature intended. Who wouldn't want that?! The reality might be an unrideable sore horse a pile of pads skins and breastplates and a nasty fall I guess. I'm interested to know all sides nonetheless.

There are arguments for the "saddle", whatever you use, stabilising the rider who can then stabilise the horse, "naturally" is usually big and swingy and actually that compromises so many horses, ignoring that horses aren't genetically designed to be as long legged as they are, or to carry an unstable load, well, not even a stable load but it's SO much better to be stable.

 

[SEL]

I’ve too been intrigued by all the positive feedback on FB but if they don’t allow negative feedback that will be why I’ve been wondering about these saddles since I was in a lesson with someone riding her cob in one.

I was always most concerned about the pressure through the stirrups and tiny bit of leather but do you think the pressure from the riders bum is more of an issue?

I think at trot then definitely through the TCS stirrups.

Otherwise the whole point of panels - and @sbloom is the expert here - is to spread our weight along that long back muscle. I just can't see how they do that. They say they have research so perhaps I need to put my prejudices to one side and have a read!!

@Malicob23 I'm not convinced about the riding naturally bit given the whole 'sitting on a horses back cantering over the fields' stuff isn't exactly natural either. I admire people who have impeccable bareback balance but even those only save the bareback riding for fun.

 

[maya2008]

It's a bit different for kids IMO. Yours are little and Shetlands and welshies might be tiny but they're very sturdy. I wince when I see adults on cobs riding in a TCS because I just can't see how the pressure is spread away from the riders bum.

I worry more about stirrup pressure. I’ve ridden bareback for years and never had it cause an issue. Rider’s weight will spread out along thighs as well as their bum and it’s a fairly large area. With a little padding even my TB was perfectly happy without a saddle. For stirrup pressure, I worked out the psi based on the size of the middle bit of a TCS and rider weight. Then looked up acceptable psi for a saddle and why (linked to pressure in the capillaries - any more than this and the flow of blood is shut down). For the kids, it’s below that value easily. Then I pad for spinal channel etc. Happy ponies.

For an adult, you need to spread the pressure to reduce that psi. There are pressure testing studies that show how far each material spreads pressure. You can then layer to improve that, and take advantage of the ‘rest’ period in trot when the blood can flow again if you haven’t got a perfect score.

 

[Miss_Millie]

The Facebook group is a bit of a minefield, and I say that as someone who has personally found the saddle amazing to ride in. I think a lot of people are quite cultish about the TCS, and refuse to believe that is can have any drawbacks, or that it might not be suitable for all horses. I don't agree with this and I think each horse and rider should be looked at on a case-by-case basis.

My personal experience: it is incredibly comfortable to ride in. My horse goes better in it than her professionally fitted, expensive GP saddle. I feel more balanced in it, especially in the canter. You can change the padding to suit your horse...for me, I opt for good spinal clearance with a treeless saddle type pad. It made me realise how much weight I put in the stirrups rising to the trot in my GP, I'm now making sure that I rise using my thighs and core so that I'm not putting weight in the stirrups (which surely can't be good for the horse, regardless of if it is a traditional treed saddle or treeless)

Like with any piece of tack, it's important to continue to check in with your horse and see how they feel about it when you are tacking them up and riding them. My horse is very good at telling me how she feels and if she objects to something. I also have regular physio to make sure that her back is in good shape. Her massage therapist saw improvements when I changed to the TCS, and I didn't tell her what type of saddle it was, just 'different saddle', so no prejudice either way.

Personally it's the saddle that I like the most at the moment, and it seems to be the saddle my horse likes the most so far too. That being said, I'm one of those going down the rabbit hole of 'should we be on their backs at all?', so it's all up for debate in my mind.

There are some people on the group who compete regularly, with horses who appear very fit and with good topline. Some saddle fitters have done pressure tests with good results. I have also seen horses which have developed white marks from the saddle. This is why, like with everything to do with horses, it's so important to do a lot of research, employ professionals who you trust to help you, and continue to reassess and be open minded in either direction.

 

[sbloom]

I worry more about stirrup pressure. I’ve ridden bareback for years and never had it cause an issue. Rider’s weight will spread out along thighs as well as their bum and it’s a fairly large area. With a little padding even my TB was perfectly happy without a saddle. For stirrup pressure, I worked out the psi based on the size of the middle bit of a TCS and rider weight. Then looked up acceptable psi for a saddle and why (linked to pressure in the capillaries - any more than this and the flow of blood is shut down). For the kids, it’s below that value easily. Then I pad for spinal channel etc. Happy ponies.

For an adult, you need to spread the pressure to reduce that psi. There are pressure testing studies that show how far each material spreads pressure. You can then layer to improve that, and take advantage of the ‘rest’ period in trot when the blood can flow again if you haven’t got a perfect score.

Weight only truly transfers to the thighs if the rider is relatively over their feet and can rotate their legs internally, otherwise it is concentrated on the seatbones. Testing materials isn't useful on its own, we have to look at where it places the rider's weight, how it optimises them, and enables the horse to push up in front, de-rotate the ribcage etc, all ingredients of healthy movement. Research into saddle fit struggles with the complexities.

 

[Malicob23]

Thank you all, this is great to help me think it all through.

 

[maya2008]

Research into saddle fit struggles with the complexities.

I’ll say, I have ridden in some horrendous treed saddles. Bruising at the knee from the knee rolls? Check. Saddle sores on me? Check. Awful balance due to seat being just the wrong shape for any human being? Double check. And then there’s the whole horror of rock hard saddle seats and the male anatomy. My husband described it to me when I asked, and just…ouch! He is firmly attached to his treeless Torsion with its lovely comfy seat that does not cause him horrible pain!

 

[Landcruiser]

Following with interest. I've ridden in a western saddle for the last 15 years and find the long leg position very natural. I have decent balance although my core could do with a bit of work. I'm thinking very seriously about using a TCS for backing my youngster when the time comes, and hopefully continuing with it if it suits us both. My current ridden horse is 14.2 so it's not TOO hard to chuck a western on him, but I'm not getting any younger and they are so heavy. Youngster is going to be a bit bigger, although only an inch or two. However, I love the fact that the TCS is so simple and light. I think you can get western fenders for them too. I have yet to sit on one, hopefully will be able to try a friend's one before committing.

 

[Peglo]

I think at trot then definitely through the TCS stirrups.

Otherwise the whole point of panels - and @sbloom is the expert here - is to spread our weight along that long back muscle. I just can't see how they do that. They say they have research so perhaps I need to put my prejudices to one side and have a read!!

That makes total sense right enough that trotting would put more pressure through the stirrups.

yes they say about the research often but I can’t get my head around it either. I love my bareback pad and so like the idea of the TCS but I don’t understand how it works or how there’s no pressure.

 

[Pippity]

I have a TCS, and I'm not massively in love with it. Neither is my horse. If I'm having issues that could be related to saddle fit, I'll school in my Christ Lammfelle bareback pad and hack in the TCS for a week or so. That's generally enough to confirm whether it's saddle or not. (I don't hack in the bareback pad because I'm a wimp who needs stirrups to feel safe, and I've been unable to find leathers that would work with the bareback pad and my stumpy legs.)

I know somebody who absolutely adores hers, but she's a long person on a very short-backed pony, and she always struggled to find a saddle to fit them both.

 

[Malicob23]

Pippity what do you dislike about it, or is it the concern about it's use that you mind?