Total lack of stamina??

Honestly, this is practically word-for-word what the lady on my yard was going through with her Connie who was subsequently diagnosed with a muscle myopathy. Wait and see what comes back with the bloods x
 
DirectorFury said:
Honestly, this is practically word-for-word what the lady on my yard was going through with her Connie who was subsequently diagnosed with a muscle myopathy. Wait and see what comes back with the bloods x
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really? What was the story there?

The vets said that it’s not presenting as typical muscle myopathy because he doesn’t sweat up/go stiff etc. But they haven’t ruled it out at all and said the bloods will show it if that’s what it is?
 
Patterdale said:
really? What was the story there?

The vets said that it’s not presenting as typical muscle myopathy because he doesn’t sweat up/go stiff etc. But they haven’t ruled it out at all and said the bloods will show it if that’s what it is?
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They dont sweat up and go stiff generally Thats what most people think of when they think of tying up, but PSSM and similar dont present like that in nearly all cases.

I'd get him on a suitable diet and 10,000mgs of natural vitamin e or double that of synthetic now and see what happens
 
He gets ridden 3-4 times as I don’t have time to ride every day, but when I do ride it’s an hour and a half of hacking up hills, working in an outline etc. He’s coping better in trot now, canter or anything uphill he finds very hard.
 
How much canter/uphill does he do? I would consider taking him to the gallops regularly or out hunting to freshen him up
 
Patterdale said:
As much as he’ll tolerate.
He doesn’t need freshening up, he’s not sour he’s just not capable of giving any more than he does. There’s something wrong if only I can find it.
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You can do a cheap hair test for one of the PSSM and also can try the vit E. quick cheap win.

Did you discuss a scope? Mine has/had a wind issue and it was like riding with the hand break on. He actually didn’t make an abnormal noise until he was under real stress, but I wasn’t strong/fit enough to get him to that point of noise.

That said, due to his size mine was a prime candidate for wind, whereas yours isn’t and genetically would be more likely to be muscular
 
ihatework said:
You can do a cheap hair test for one of the PSSM and also can try the vit E. quick cheap win.

Did you discuss a scope? Mine has/had a wind issue and it was like riding with the hand break on. He actually didn’t make an abnormal noise until he was under real stress, but I wasn’t strong/fit enough to get him to that point of noise.

That said, due to his size mine was a prime candidate for wind, whereas yours isn’t and genetically would be more likely to be muscular
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They really listened for wind noises but couldn’t hear anything abnormal at all. They said a dynamic scope was an option if all else fails but they couldn’t hear any signs of respiratory abnormalities at all.
 
My PSSM mare doesn't sweat or go stiff when her muscles are struggling. She gets tired, grumpy and really resents being asked to do any more than a walk.

Be interesting to see what the blood results show because it sounds like a myopathy to me. Connies are rarely PSSM type 1 and the RVC have been doing investigations to see if there is a genetic type specific to the breed .

https://www.rvc.ac.uk/equine-vet/news/new-study-on-tying-up-in-horses-and-ponies
 
ihatework said:
You can do a cheap hair test for one of the PSSM and also can try the vit E. quick cheap win.

Did you discuss a scope? Mine has/had a wind issue and it was like riding with the hand break on. He actually didn’t make an abnormal noise until he was under real stress, but I wasn’t strong/fit enough to get him to that point of noise.

That said, due to his size mine was a prime candidate for wind, whereas yours isn’t and genetically would be more likely to be muscular
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Mine is a Sec D and she didn’t make any abnormal noises at all but her abnormal soft palate showed up on the dynamic scope.
 
My pony was diagnosed with RAO, it took two scopes which showed clear and it was only a BAL that showed the problem. He had previously been fine but it was like you said, it was if you were riding with a handbrake on or he would be fine then just run out of energy. He never had paticularly high resps and his resp rate always recovered quickly. The BAL was a bit clutching at straws but gave us the answer. He is fine now, has nebulised steroids during pollen season.
 
Wow this is just like my connie! I was thinking possibly a breathing problem because he runs out of steam incredibly easily and he never ever seems to get any fitter (no matter what and I've owned him 3 years). When ridden in the school the handbrake is definitely on, when loose schooled he's better but he still runs out of steam easily. When hacked out he will stride out quite happily at the start - but goes flat quite soon after starting out. Occasionally he manages to stay OK the full hack but its only occasional. HOWEVER he does have malformed stifles (so they're weak) and I have to take that into account. But even so my gut is telling me there is probably something else going on. The vet is out to review his stifles in a few weeks and I will see what he thinks.
 
Leo Walker said:
I'd get him on a suitable diet and 10,000mgs of natural vitamin e or double that of synthetic now and see what happens
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It's 10,000 IU, not 10,000mgs, its measured in International Units.

The supplier's notes will tell you how many grams you need to feed to give you each 1000 IU

Cheapest way to feed it is to buy oil from Equimins, but a lot of us find that messy and the powder much easier and buy it though it's a lot more expensive.

.
 
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Ok blood results are back.

Everything normal. Only slight deviation was CK levels. Should be 433 or under, his was 562 before exercise and 551 after. Vet said that in the PSSM horses they've seen, the levels have been in the thousands.
However - we're going to try vitamin E and a high fat diet, which she's going to send me. And see if that improves matters.

AST levels were 399 before and 425 after. Should be 574 or below so that was fine.

All thoughts and input most welcome! Thanks
 
Patterdale said:
Ok blood results are back.

Everything normal. Only slight deviation was CK levels. Should be 433 or under, his was 562 before exercise and 551 after. Vet said that in the PSSM horses they've seen, the levels have been in the thousands.
However - we're going to try vitamin E and a high fat diet, which she's going to send me. And see if that improves matters.

AST levels were 399 before and 425 after. Should be 574 or below so that was fine.

All thoughts and input most welcome! Thanks
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My mare shows symptoms with CK in the 600s. I suspect your vet is used to dealing with full blown tie-ups where they do present in the 1000s

I don't think those results rule out a myopathy. They aren't a definite yes I agree, but sensible to do the vitamin E.

Are you on FB? There is a PSSM uk page where it is worth asking if their other connie owners with suspected myopathies and seeing how they manage. High fat is fine for Type 1 but not so much for other types. If i was really cheeky I'd get the names of the vets doing the research at RVC & email them for advice!!
 
SEL said:
My mare shows symptoms with CK in the 600s. I suspect your vet is used to dealing with full blown tie-ups where they do present in the 1000s

I don't think those results rule out a myopathy. They aren't a definite yes I agree, but sensible to do the vitamin E.

Are you on FB? There is a PSSM uk page where it is worth asking if their other connie owners with suspected myopathies and seeing how they manage. High fat is fine for Type 1 but not so much for other types. If i was really cheeky I'd get the names of the vets doing the research at RVC & email them for advice!!
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some PSSM horses don't even have high CK and AST levels. If you do anything always do one thing at once. Vit E to start with and see what the results are. I would not use high fat until you have worked out what type you are looking at.
There are at least 3 FB groups for PSSM. I would ask about connies on all of them. You may well get a reply from equiseq who can give you info as to how connies have fared in their testing program. They will also tell you what to test for first ie PSSM1 or 2.
 
SusieT said:
How much canter/uphill does he do? I would consider taking him to the gallops regularly or out hunting to freshen him up
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this would be the most stupid thing to do with a PSSM horse. It would probably end up on the ground.
They need twice as long warming up as other horses and the same cooling down. They also need exercise daily which for this horse would be walking and trotting gently until it's problems are diagnosed.
 
Another vote for the PSSM UK page. I'm a recent joiner! I've posted a bit on here about my PSSM journey so far as well. My pony's CK levels were over 40,000 if you can get your head around that. I spent the whole of Christmas thinking he was going to drop dead! It took just shy of 2 weeks for these to return to normal. Mine did tie up, but didn't sweat up, look like colic or anything else at all. He'd never shown a single other sign, and *touch wood* since a diet change, strict exercise and turnout regime (having the kibosh put on it a bit at the moment due to the weather!) is now feeling as good as he did before hand. It hasn't even been two months since his tie up, I moved quickly and tested through animal genetics as from what I quickly found out myself, vets have no real clue about this!
 
TheSpottyCobby said:
Another vote for the PSSM UK page. I'm a recent joiner! I've posted a bit on here about my PSSM journey so far as well. My pony's CK levels were over 40,000 if you can get your head around that. I spent the whole of Christmas thinking he was going to drop dead! It took just shy of 2 weeks for these to return to normal. Mine did tie up, but didn't sweat up, look like colic or anything else at all. He'd never shown a single other sign, and *touch wood* since a diet change, strict exercise and turnout regime (having the kibosh put on it a bit at the moment due to the weather!) is now feeling as good as he did before hand. It hasn't even been two months since his tie up, I moved quickly and tested through animal genetics as from what I quickly found out myself, vets have no real clue about this!
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I remember this. You did very well to get it sorted so quickly. Glad the pony is happy again. :)
 
paddy555 said:
this would be the most stupid thing to do with a PSSM horse. It would probably end up on the ground.
They need twice as long warming up as other horses and the same cooling down. They also need exercise daily which for this horse would be walking and trotting gently until it's problems are diagnosed.
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Not every PSSM horse is the same. When fit, my mare loves to gallop and is the fastest horse on the yard. She struggles to engage and lift when schooling or jumping, but can gallop just fine.

Equally, if you spend too much time warming up, you ‘spend’ the available energy/fuel in her muscles so then you can’t do anything, she’s done. Trainers never believe me, want to spend half an hour in walk and trot, then wonder why she can’t canter. Yet if the warm-up had been brief, she could have jumped a course in canter no problems.

OP - listen to YOUR horse, if it is PSSM try all the options for diet, mix and match a bit with supplements and see what works for you. We have finally got the supplements right for my mare and I can see the muscle piling back on; the stamina returning. But that took a lot of tweaking and trial and error. No two horses are exactly the same.
 
Mine presented similar, could hunt all day but takes a huge amount of energy to get him around a sj course or dressage test.
I tested for pssm but it was negative. Tried various feeds with no change. Finally we tried a hind gut treatment, suceed and it has really helped. Might be worth giving it a try.
 
Did you get anywhere in the end Patterdale?
I have a big warmblood mare who is 17 now but looks better than ever. But she now ‘conks out’ for want of a better word. She cannot make it up a 5f gallop for love for money. Has to come back to walk half way up
She used to teamchase and jump plenty. I’m thinking heart or wind. She puffs and pants. She should be fit. I don’t think it can be lack of work.
 
McGrools said:
Did you get anywhere in the end Patterdale?
I have a big warmblood mare who is 17 now but looks better than ever. But she now ‘conks out’ for want of a better word. She cannot make it up a 5f gallop for love for money. Has to come back to walk half way up
She used to teamchase and jump plenty. I’m thinking heart or wind. She puffs and pants. She should be fit. I don’t think it can be lack of work.
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What does your vet think?
 
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