Totilas is back

Tnavas said:
AdorableAlice can you say where the bridle is not correct. My screen is small and my eyes are old!
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The weymouth is horizontal to the ground. Something you will often see at lower level shows through ignorance or inexperience. At world class level I find it astonishing. I did not start the thread to pull the horse apart, he is what he is and like any type, breed or stamp some will like him and some won't. He does not float my boat at all but he does deserve to wear tack that is correctly fitted and being used appropriately.
 
I can't believe the first halt. THAT should have been a 5! You'd think he could ride a halt by now! I think having not seen the horse out for two years we've all become accustomed to horses that move correctly, in two diagonals at trot, and who track up. All of these were sadly lacking in that video. Hopefully dressage has moved on from the flashy front/ no back end era!!
 
AdorableAlice said:
The weymouth is horizontal to the ground. Something you will often see at lower level shows through ignorance or inexperience. At world class level I find it astonishing. I did not start the thread to pull the horse apart, he is what he is and like any type, breed or stamp some will like him and some won't. He does not float my boat at all but he does deserve to wear tack that is correctly fitted and being used appropriately.
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Unless the rider is over riding on the curb. From what I can remember Totilas was a very strong horse, maybe now his rider can't cope without riding on the curb.

Otherwise yes agree that the curb chain could be too loose.
 
I think he's a lovely looking horse but I've never been a fan of his movement. Too extravagant and exaggerated in front for me although that's a personal thing.
In this latest video I thought his front leg movement was even more exaggerated and a little uneven but I'm not a dressage judge.
 
Definitly a happier horse than the last video I saw but still far from a pretty picture. Sad to see his hind end trailing after at times without any engagement whatsoever & those forelegs are not even at all which makes me suspect he isn't 100% sound....horse is a shadow of its former self & seems to have lost suppleness.....if you cover up the front legs with your hands the hind ends barely working :( I don't even do dressage and my horse shows better engagement than this. I hope this rider never gets his hands on Mr Valegro :(
 
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I think I disagree with the majority here. Mathias looked like he rode a very nice test there, considering Totilas has had two years off from competing. He looks a lot more relaxed and at ease with Mathias now compared to when he first got the right. I was also really pleased to see him patting and making so much of Totilas at the end of his test. I do agree that the extended trot looks a little odd but I'm sure it's not that he isn't working from behind, more that he has such an extravagant movement with his front end that it gives this appearance.
 
He should never have been taken away from Edward.

I remember watching Youtube vids of his first days with the German guy , and he was acting like a donkey, he was so stressed , I really felt for him
 
Can't have been that bad he won under international dressage judges. Having said that there were points where it wasn't very pretty and I can only assume from the comments on here he was the best of a not very good entry. I can't comment on fluidity as I can't follow the jerky video very well my wi fi is very slow
 
Looks miles better than the last video I saw of the pair.

One point I did notice was that his hind end seemed much much freer and more active in the free walk. He is clearly capable of using it!
 
I wonder what would pop out if you mated him with my Gelderlander? He walks normally when he's not leg flinging and that surprises me.
 
Ok several things. There were some very good bits in the test. The piaffe and transitions were pretty balanced , regular with good height. The 2xs changes very nice( 1's not so but he often made errors there with Gal.) the half passes in trot were also very lovely as was the counter change of hand.
It's very hard to bring a horse ack to this level of competition let alone a breeding stallion, as Charlotte so rightly said in an interview stallions are a whole lot different in the arena and they do drop off the bridle when you go In the arena.( this I know from experience too)
Add to this, Toto is not the easy relaxed horse you all seem to think he is. Even with Gal he was not easy in the stable and as a younger horse Gal refused to ride him because he was so wild!
As for the front leg he's always been like that. And it is a reflection of slight tension and a common thing in a Trakhner . He has also always moved like that behind! It's just now we have seen the likes of Valegro and we have some thing to compare with where as before we didn't.
I feel for Mathias he is stuck between a rock and a hard place and he is actually a nice guy who seriously wants to work with this horse . If you look at the trot up you can clearly see he is developing a relationship with this horse who is not as straight forward as you all think. The full video of him working I. Also showed good relaxed work.
As for the judging.... Well I would love to get 78% for a GP test where I fall out of the pirouettes miss my ones and don't have enough height or regularity in my passage! Oh and before you all have a dig. I do ride at GP!
 
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Watched the vid and - whilst I'm no expert - all I can say is "Oh dear, what a shame!" Poor horse looked uneven in front and tense in his movements. Not a good picture at all. He needs a more sympathetic rider IMO.
 
Partoow said:
Ok several things. There were some very good bits in the test. The piaffe and transitions were pretty balanced , regular with good height. The 2xs changes very nice( 1's not so but he often made errors there with Gal.) the half passes in trot were also very lovely as was the counter change of hand.
It's very hard to bring a horse ack to this level of competition let alone a breeding stallion, as Charlotte so rightly said in an interview stallions are a whole lot different in the arena and they do drop off the bridle when you go In the arena.( this I know from experience too)
Add to this, Toto is not the easy relaxed horse you all seem to think he is. Even with Gal he was not easy in the stable and as a younger horse Gal refused to ride him because he was so wild!
As for the front leg he's always been like that. And it is a reflection of slight tension and a common thing in a Trakhner . He has also always moved like that behind! It's just now we have seen the likes of Valegro and we have some thing to compare with where as before we didn't.
I feel for Mathias he is stuck between a rock and a hard place and he is actually a nice guy who seriously wants to work with this horse . If you look at the trot up you can clearly see he is developing a relationship with this horse who is not as straight forward as you all think. The full video of him working I. Also showed good relaxed work.
As for the judging.... Well I would love to get 78% for a GP test where I fall out of the pirouettes miss my ones and don't have enough height or regularity in my passage! Oh and before you all have a dig. I do ride at GP!
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Great post! ...I think many are quick to criticise when they for one could not ride one side of this horse!
 
he looks happier and more relaxed but still not as contented with life as he did with Gal IMO.

the trot work to me looked very behind the leg, just how CS drops me in the arena and i wiggle about like a dying fish to try and gee him up, so did Matthias here!

I HATED the stop/spur/go/stop/spur/go at the start :( poor horse. CS would dump me on my head if i did that to him, not a very fair way of making a point(and it didnt work anyway as he still dropped behind the leg after the first halt, albeit the canter was much better than the trot).

he may well have been worked LDR with Gal, but at least he looked secure in the *method* and like he understood what was required. Now he looks confused and unsure, which is worse?
I dont find LDR to be that much of a problem (and i believe Gal falls on that side rather than true Rollkur a la Anky/Adelinde) as i work my own horse fairly round and deep in the warm up and its done gently and carefully.
 
MS123 said:
Great post! ...I think many are quick to criticise when they for one could not ride one side of this horse!
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I doubt that many, or any, of us on here would pretend to be able to ride such a horse.

It doesn't mean that we are unable to recognise an unlevel horse, and at times a very disharmonious partnership. The transitions outside the arena were horrid. The action of the front legs in much of the trot work was odd.

Agree with another poster, that the free walk looked good, and the horse actually seemed relaxed and happy at that point.
 
Eugh I find the whole thing depressing. It can be argued that he never had the greatest hind leg action and maybe Gal did use LDR/rollkur but there's no denying that they had a good partnership and it showed in the relaxation and flow of their tests together. Here, there is no harmony, lots of spur jabbing and horse behind the leg etc. I think this is a sobering lesson about the importance of partnerships in dressage. It's not good enough to have the fabulous horse, you have to click with them and manage them in the way that suits them. Thank god Carl and Charlotte have kept hold of Valegro and Utopia....would hate to see them go the same way.
 
AdorableAlice said:
The weymouth is horizontal to the ground. Something you will often see at lower level shows through ignorance or inexperience. At world class level I find it astonishing. I did not start the thread to pull the horse apart, he is what he is and like any type, breed or stamp some will like him and some won't. He does not float my boat at all but he does deserve to wear tack that is correctly fitted and being used appropriately.
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Agree, surely at that level the horse would need the most subtle of aids from the curb not yanked in like it is.
 
I'm no expert, I have a small fat pony but even I thought that one front leg came up higher than the other
 
Partoow said:
Add to this, Toto is not the easy relaxed horse you all seem to think he is. Even with Gal he was not easy in the stable and as a younger horse Gal refused to ride him because he was so wild!
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This does not surprise me and I think should have been addressed early in his life. A horse unhappy in life in general is always going to be 'difficult' imho.
I realize I will be told some of these horses are like this but I don't buy it I'm afraid!
 
MS123 said:
Great post! ...I think many are quick to criticise when they for one could not ride one side of this horse!
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To be fair, I don't think most of people on this forum are trying to say for one minute that they could ride this horse better. I am under no illusions that I wouldn't last 5 min on the likes of totilas so that is why even if I could afford him, I wouldn't over horse myself with such a horse.
 
i turned it off

that horse used to be incredible.....now hes just a very sad state of money minded people.

Can't say im impressed.
 
I've watched about half of the test. I honestly can't understand why people are getting quite so upset as I don't think it looked half as bad as I expected. I didn't like the bit outside the ring but the test looked so much better than the first time we saw this pair together. I've never liked Totilas anyway, I dislike the way he flings his front legs around and he does nothing for me at all. However, I really didn't think this particular test was too bad. No, it's not Valegro but actually I thought he looked better behind than I've seen him before. If you freeze frame the video at various points, the angle of hind and forelegs looks generally pretty equal which I doubt he always had in the past. I do agree he doesn't look as though he enjoys his work as much as in the past, but then again if he's being used as a breeding stallion his mind is probably somewhat on other things! Plus hasn't he had a few soundness issues? So if he's not been quite right then surely this would show up in his work, especially at this level?

The rights and wrongs of rollkur aside, I remember reading somewhere that Rath does *not* train using this method. Which makes me wonder, if a horse has always been trained in this manner (ie, by Gal), then you switch to another method, could that cause some of the inconsistencies? Genuine (numpty) question!
 
Couldn't watch it beyond the 'warm-up' if that's what it can be called. TBH though I've never liked this horse, but then I'm not a dressage person. Charlotte though I can happily watch & enjoy her tests, because the horse is moving like a horse (rather than a circus pony) & happy in his work. Not like she's always had 'easy' horses, more thought seems to be given to them & their relaxation though. I used to compete a stallion (in endurance, arab, 15.3hh, won HOYS when he showed & reserve european champ). They do take more thought & care, but should be trained to know when they are working & when covering. When he was working he had to cope with being surrounded by mares, but he knew what he was there to do.
 
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