Towing weight?

[Mary jones]

I’m new to towing and now really confused...
So the cars maximum towing capacity is 2,000kgs. And the total weight of trailer + horses will be around 1,800kgs.
I’ve heard about the 85% rule so 85% of the trailers maximum is 1700kgs.
So it will be about 100kgs over.
is that okay?
I’ll only be towing short distances no longer than 30 minutes and no major hills or motorways. Could I get away with towing the two horses?

 

[doodle]

I wouldn’t. I have no idea about the 85% thing but I would want a bigger safety net. It dosnt matter how long you are towing for.

 

[Shay]

Hopefully ROG will be along in a minute - but I understood towing weight includes the weight in the vehicle. (That might be the source of your 85%?) You have already worked out you will be over the maximum towing weight for your vehicle.

It isn't so much if you will be caught - in fact you probably won't. It is about whether you are willing to put your horses (who I hope you care about) and your riders at risk. If you are over permiited weight you will have no valid insurance. Any rescue cover you might have may also be invalid. 30 mins or 3 hours- or 30 hours - if some twit breaks in front of you and you can't stop you will be just as dead.

For me - absolutely no.

 

[fabbydo]

I think that's fine. The max weight is 2000kg and you're towing 1800kg so you're 200kg under. If the car couldn't tow 2000kg the manufacturer wouldn't say it could. However, this is probably something for ROG to answer!

 

[doodle]

I still wouldn’t be happy with only 200kg spare. Have you put horses on a weight bridge? Weigh tapes quite often under estimate. It is not just about pulling then car also needs to be able to stop the trailer.

 

[Mary jones]

I still wouldn’t be happy with only 200kg spare. Have you put horses on a weight bridge? Weigh tapes quite often under estimate. It is not just about pulling then car also needs to be able to stop the trailer.

Well yeah the 1800kg estimate is the maximum it will be, I’ve over estimated the horses weights I to the calculation. I’ll see what everyone else says. I don’t need to bring 2 just wondering if I could.

 

[Mary jones]

Hopefully ROG will be along in a minute - but I understood towing weight includes the weight in the vehicle. (That might be the source of your 85%?) You have already worked out you will be over the maximum towing weight for your vehicle.

It isn't so much if you will be caught - in fact you probably won't. It is about whether you are willing to put your horses (who I hope you care about) and your riders at risk. If you are over permiited weight you will have no valid insurance. Any rescue cover you might have may also be invalid. 30 mins or 3 hours- or 30 hours - if some twit breaks in front of you and you can't stop you will be just as dead.

For me - absolutely no.

It’s not over the weight at 1800kgs. It’s over the 85% that is recommended for trailering. I don’t believe it includes passengers. I thought it was just ideal to trailer 85% but still possible to trailer 100%. I’m not sure

 

[Michen]

Why would a manufacturer of a car say it can tow a limit that it can’t. If anything I think they are more likely to under value it. It will have been extensively tested, including stopping ability etc.

The 85% rule applies to caravans.

I have towed two small horses and an I for505 with a Tiguan, right on its limit, felt no different to towing one.

 

[doodle]

It has nothing to do with the weight in the car, or passengers etc. It is the weight it is pulling.
Like I said I wouldn’t. I will bow out now.

 

[Michen]

It has nothing to do with the weight in the car, or passengers etc. It is the weight it is pulling.
Like I said I wouldn’t. I will bow out now.

Which is within the cars towing capacity as specified by the manufacturer...

 

[Mary jones]

Why would a manufacturer of a car say it can tow a limit that it can’t. If anything I think they are more likely to under value it. It will have been extensively tested, including stopping ability etc.

The 85% rule applies to caravans.

I have towed two small horses and an I for505 with a Tiguan, right on its limit, felt no different to towing one.

Thank you, I thought the 85% rule also applies to trailers, but maybe not.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Towing safely has many variables - only one of which is the manufacturers stated tow capacity. 2000kg is nothing. You need to ensure you are not exceeding safe towing capacity which includes your ability to stop.

If you have an accident, and you are not within guidelines you are uninsured but worse still you run the risk of killing or injuring someone. In that scenario your life as you know it is seriously impacted, forever.

Dont do it......maybe consider buying a proper tow vehicle, one that is fit for purpose.

 

[COldNag]

85% applies to caravans.
You would be within limits.
Personally I like more "wiggle room" but it isn't a legal requirement just a preference

 

[doodle]

.

 

[ROG]

The 85% ADVICE is for CARAVANS ONLY due to their construction
With a B+E on your licence you can legally and safely tow 1800 with a 2000 tow capacity

 

[Wheels]

Are you absolutely sure on the horses weight? I recently read an article by one of the horsebox manufacturers that they allow 600 - 650 kgs per horse when they are calculating how many horses the payload allows them to carry.

 

[phizz4]

If you have only the B licence (after 1997 I think) your MAM of car, trailer and horses is 3500 kg. If you have B+E you can go over that. The 85% is not a law, it is a recommendation. Horses move in tailers, nothing does in a caravan, so I was advised, many years ago, by a trailer company, that a ratio of 75% with a live load was safer, but at the end of the day it is your choice, you are not illegal, your insurance is still valid. However, my Shogun has a maximum towing capacity of 3200 kg but I would never attempt to pull that as it is way more than the weight of the car, so the tail will wag the dog. Our trailer weighs 1000 kg, the two horses a maximum of 1000 kg. apart from hay and water all the tack, rugs etc go in the car, with driver and passenger. This gives the car a weight of about 2,350 kg. That just puts us on the 85% recommendation. The way to work it out is to take the weight of the car with half a tank of fuel, driver, passenger if carried, tack etc (put all the weight you can in the car, not the trailer), in front of the rear wheels. See what that is and go for a maximum of 85% of that, but 75% is recommended. A trailer tends to be more stable in a straight line than a single axle caravan, because of it's twin axles. This is what happens with excess speed and tail wagging dog. https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/local-news/watch-caravan-flip-dog-a380-3242379

 

[ROG]

If you have only the B licence (after 1997 I think) your MAM of car, trailer and horses is 3500 kg.

Remove the horses from that sentence and you are correct
Plated weights of vehicle GVW + trailer MAM must not exceed 3500kg using a B licence

 

[Mary jones]

Are you absolutely sure on the horses weight? I recently read an article by one of the horsebox manufacturers that they allow 600 - 650 kgs per horse when they are calculating how many horses the payload allows them to carry.

Yeah the horses are no more than 500. Ones a pony and ones a lightweight 15h

 

[Wheels]

As others have said, based on your calculations you are legal and within your cars towing capacity.

I am another though that likes a little more power and prefer towing with a proper 4x4. Towing with something that is over and above what you need is much easier.

 

[phizz4]

Remove the horses from that sentence and you are correct
Plated weights of vehicle GVW + trailer MAM must not exceed 3500kg using a B licence

Sorry, my mistake. Weight of horses included in trailer MAM.

 

[holeymoley]

It’s something you CAN do as within the cars limits however, with a 2000kg towing capacity unless they’re small ponies, I personally would limit it to one horse. I have a fab 4x4 with a 2000kg towing capacity and you never feel like there’s a trailer or horse there but i wouldn’t tow 2. For 2 I’d like to have more capacity to have.

 

[Tiddlypom]

What vehicle do you have? Someone on here may have one and be able to tell you how capable they are as tow cars.

Whilst technically if a vehicle is rated to tow 2t it should comfortably be able to do so, not all vehicles are as good at towing as others. May you ever need to do a steep hill start at a junction/traffic lights, for instance?

 

[Mary jones]

What vehicle do you have? Someone on here may have one and be able to tell you how capable they are as tow cars.

Whilst technically if a vehicle is rated to tow 2t it should comfortably be able to do so, not all vehicles are as good at towing as others. May you ever need to do a steep hill start at a junction/traffic lights, for instance?

It’s a Range Rover evoque. I’ll only be doing short distances with 2 in. Never and steep hills or anything.

 

[Mary jones]

The 85% ADVICE is for CARAVANS ONLY due to their construction
With a B+E on your licence you can legally and safely tow 1800 with a 2000 tow capacity

So do you think it’s fine to tow 1800kgs with it? Is there anything I need to watch out for? Thank you for replying!

 

[Tiddlypom]

What age and model of Evoque? This 2014 review rates it highly as a tow car, but the tow limit on the tested model was only 1800kg.

https://www.thetowcarawards.com/tow-car/range-rover-evoque-2/

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Mary Jones, you have mentioned several times that you "will only be doing short distances, never steep hills or anything". This should never come into the equation when you are working out towing weights etc. You either have the ability to tow the weight or you haven't. If you take the distance into account then would you not have your seat belt on if you were only travelling a short distance?

 

[Mary jones]

What age and model of Evoque? This 2014 review rates it highly as a tow car, but the tow limit on the tested model was only 1800kg.

https://www.thetowcarawards.com/tow-car/range-rover-evoque-2/

It’s the 2016 model. It’s said to be a very good tow car. It’s automatic, sd4 I think. So it’s maximum capacity is 2000kgs

 

[Mary jones]

Mary Jones, you have mentioned several times that you "will only be doing short distances, never steep hills or anything". This should never come into the equation when you are working out towing weights etc. You either have the ability to tow the weight or you haven't. If you take the distance into account then would you not have your seat belt on if you were only travelling a short distance?

Well other people have mentioned that cars may struggle to pull up steep hills and going at faster speeds? So I thought i should mention it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

A gutless car may be fine towing on the flat, but could struggle up hills?

I know this because I have been the one towing with gutless cars in the past, and it’s not fun. Plus I’m from Devon, where you may well need to step up the tow limit if you don’t want to blow up your car.

Our Renault Clio is gutless, but has a tow limit of 1200kg. I could legally pop 8 bales of shavings in the back of my Ifor 510 and set off to tow it on the motorway. That would be legal, but lethal . It would probably take half an hour to get the trailer up to 50 mph, and if it did it would be thrown everywhere by lorry grooves and crosswinds.