towing with a mondeo and towbar advice??

Louby said:
Someone I knew used her Mondeo to tow a 505 with one horse for a couple of years. It wrecked the car and she replaced it with a 4 x 4. I wouldnt fancy it to be honest, what with you, your tack, maybe passenger, horse, water, trailer etc, I reckon you could be pushing it.

Perfect11s I think clipcloppop may be talking about the 'down rating the trailer plate' to match the car issue that keeps coming up??
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possibly however the plate thing is for post 1997 licence holders who are trying to tow legaly with out taking a trailer test :D
 
clipcloppop said:
sorry, i meant post 97... it's all the talk about towing capacities... sending me to sleep... :)
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Phew :D:D

I could be wrong here but I always understood the rule to be, if the car can tow 2.8t, then you subtract the weight of the trailer, say 1t, (approx weight of IW505) and what you have left 1.8t is how much you can put in it, inc horses, people, tack etc.
 
Louby said:
Now Im confused :confused::confused:
I thought pre 1997 you could drive a 7.5t lorry as you have cat C1 on your license, do you mean post 97, cos if not, Ive been breaking the law :eek::eek:
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opps I think they mean post 97 before that you can drive up to 7.5 ton gross or 8200 kg with a trailer behind it on a car licence after that (97) its 3.5 ton max and the car has to be heaver than the trailer until you take an aditional test/s
 
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Louby said:
Phew :D:D

I could be wrong here but I always understood the rule to be, if the car can tow 2.8t, then you subtract the weight of the trailer, say 1t, (approx weight of IW505) and what you have left 1.8t is how much you can put in it, inc horses, people, tack etc.
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yes absuluty spot on apart from people arnt allowed to ride in a trailer a:D
 
I had a Mondeo a few years ago but would never of dreamed of pulling a horse trailer empty or with a horse in it.
I changed it for a Discovery as i knew that would be able to tow a trailer with no problems at all.
Then i changed the Discovery as it was getting on a bit for a Range Rover & again that will pull more or less anything.

Please don't pull with a Mondeo, they weren't built to pull what you are looking to pull with.
Spend that little bit extra & buy a 4x4 that will tow & then you'll have no worrys at all.

VOSA are out to catch people being overweight.
 
VictoriaEDT said:
personally I think any and everyone towing a horse with any sort of car that is not a 4x4 is a bit mental..........v dangerous
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Dont kid yourself! 4x4 s arent all they are cracked up to be for towing. Firstly the tyres are generaly a dual purpose type ,and dont have the same grip on a tarmac road as a conventional tyre.Secondly,the suspension has a wide range of movement ,and this can encourage snaking(Cars with a soft suspension and short wheel base will tend to snake easily as well)It is true that towing will knock hell out of the clutch of a normal car,but that isnt really a safety issue.
The brakes on the trailer will work just as well behind a heavy 4x2 as a 4x4. providing the tow hitch is at the correct height and there is adequate load on it. The big killer is snaking and the cure for that is an antisnaking device , I would say that anyone who does not use one ,regardless of what they are towing with ,is needlesly risking everyones life.
 
Hanno Verian said:
I'm sorry but you are completely wrong! Show me where on that website it says that it is the MAM

I suspect you are confusing MAM or Gross weigh with Unladen weight
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My apologies. Yes I may be confusing mam with maxium gross weight, however whether you call it mam or gross weight, when I last spoke to the nasty vosa guy he said they go by the maximum weight that the trailer is rated to carry, not what it has in it, his excuse (when pushed) was "you could go round the corner and pick up your mates horse too".

So Vosa up near Chester appear to be prosecuting on maximum trailer weight as stated on the manufacturers plate, not what it actually weighs at the time. They are also very keen to get you on the weighbridge if you have 2 horses loaded to make sure you're not exceeding it either.
 
Sleepeeze_dad said:
My apologies. Yes I may be confusing mam with maxium gross weight, however whether you call it mam or gross weight, when I last spoke to the nasty vosa guy he said they go by the maximum weight that the trailer is rated to carry, not what it has in it, his excuse (when pushed) was "you could go round the corner and pick up your mates horse too".

So Vosa up near Chester appear to be prosecuting on maximum trailer weight as stated on the manufacturers plate, not what it actually weighs at the time. They are also very keen to get you on the weighbridge if you have 2 horses loaded to make sure you're not exceeding it either.
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this is also what i've heard (i think...). i think this just shows the greyness in the rules. no one really knows what the rule is. incl vosa and police as everyone seems to think different things. i am pretty sure this ^^^ is what our local traffic police look for.

personally, i think this greyness means that people could escape prosecution with enough of a fight... :)
 
I am towing with a saloon car which has a maximum braked towing weight of1 150kgs. although kerb weight is over 1500kgs.I tow a single cheval liberte with a gross wight of 1400 kgs but an unladen of about 540kgs.horse on weight tape about 480kgs.I took advice from the BHS, the caravan club and the DVLA and all said I was safe and legal.
 
Sleepeeze_dad said:
My apologies. Yes I may be confusing mam with maxium gross weight, however whether you call it mam or gross weight, when I last spoke to the nasty vosa guy he said they go by the maximum weight that the trailer is rated to carry, not what it has in it, his excuse (when pushed) was "you could go round the corner and pick up your mates horse too".

So Vosa up near Chester appear to be prosecuting on maximum trailer weight as stated on the manufacturers plate, not what it actually weighs at the time. They are also very keen to get you on the weighbridge if you have 2 horses loaded to make sure you're not exceeding it either.
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Sounds like jumped up Hitlers making it up as they go on! It would never stand up in court, on that basis I could be charged with shoplifting everytime I went into a shop, on the basis that I'm there and able to do it (And no I don't have a history of Kleptomania to confess too!), or could potentially overload my car on the basis that I know more than five people who might want a lift....

Personally I would download and print the leaflet from VOSA and carry it, if in doubt email VOSA with a direct question, print andf keep the reply. Where people usually go wrong is by forgetting about Tackpacks, water etc, although thats more often a problem with Lorries than trailers.

I would be very interested to see if VOSA got any convictions...does anyone know anything about this??
 
eahotson - I wouldn't want to rely on a weigh tape to know how close I was to the limit. We had my son's cob put on the Spillers weighbridge at a show & he was 65kg higher than the weightape showed!
 
One of the big issues is that all these stated weights are assumed dead weights which do not move. Unfortunately horses do move in a trailer and each time they move they will unsettle the trailer.

It is not only the safety of the driver,passenger and horses but also other people that may become involved if there was an accident.

In days gone by cars did not have such high peformance levels (speed, accelaration and braking capacity). Todays drivers drive at far greater speeds and brake far more rapidly.

I have see far more accidents involving horse trailers than horseboxes and in most cases the trailer has jacknifed in an attempt to overtake the vehicle that was pulling it.

These accidents are traumatic for all concerned and in many cases can be avoided by using a tow vehicle which has both a long wheel base and is also heavy. Trailers need to be serviced more regularly (at least once a year) by a specialist trailer mechanic and special attention paid to the tyres on the trailer which should also be inflated to the correct pressure. In many cases trailers are fitted with substitute tyres (normal car tyres) which are unsuitable and dangerous. A trailer tyre needs to be inflated to a pressure of about 80 p.s.i. not the normal of about 30 p.s.i on a vehicle. (Think of the weight of a horse)
The weights and weight limits provided by the various sources are only a guide and basic common sense dictates that a saloon vehicle is not heavy enough to safely tow a horse trailer.
Many people will say that they only tow locally. Statistics show that most accidents occur within a few miles of home. Don't risk it.
 
Sleepeeze_dad said:
My apologies. Yes I may be confusing mam with maxium gross weight, however whether you call it mam or gross weight, when I last spoke to the nasty vosa guy he said they go by the maximum weight that the trailer is rated to carry, not what it has in it, his excuse (when pushed) was "you could go round the corner and pick up your mates horse too".

So Vosa up near Chester appear to be prosecuting on maximum trailer weight as stated on the manufacturers plate, not what it actually weighs at the time. They are also very keen to get you on the weighbridge if you have 2 horses loaded to make sure you're not exceeding it either.
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yes you could go round your mates pick up a horse and become
over weight for the towing capcity.. so using TOSAs logic the police could do you for speeding !!! stop you and say because you were under the limit but you could go down the road and put your foot down so im doing you for what you might do in the future!!!you have to do something wrong to break the law!!! the mermaids as truckers call them would have to weigh you to prosicute for a over loading offence, sadly it seems problems ocurr when you give failed mecanics a clip board, a hi vis and a people carrier and tell them to pretend to be police.....
 
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OWLIE185 said:
One of the big issues is that all these stated weights are assumed dead weights which do not move. Unfortunately horses do move in a trailer and each time they move they will unsettle the trailer.

It is not only the safety of the driver,passenger and horses but also other people that may become involved if there was an accident.

In days gone by cars did not have such high peformance levels (speed, accelaration and braking capacity). Todays drivers drive at far greater speeds and brake far more rapidly.

I have see far more accidents involving horse trailers than horseboxes and in most cases the trailer has jacknifed in an attempt to overtake the vehicle that was pulling it.

These accidents are traumatic for all concerned and in many cases can be avoided by using a tow vehicle which has both a long wheel base and is also heavy. Trailers need to be serviced more regularly (at least once a year) by a specialist trailer mechanic and special attention paid to the tyres on the trailer which should also be inflated to the correct pressure. In many cases trailers are fitted with substitute tyres (normal car tyres) which are unsuitable and dangerous. A trailer tyre needs to be inflated to a pressure of about 80 p.s.i. not the normal of about 30 p.s.i on a vehicle. (Think of the weight of a horse)
The weights and weight limits provided by the various sources are only a guide and basic common sense dictates that a saloon vehicle is not heavy enough to safely tow a horse trailer.
Many people will say that they only tow locally. Statistics show that most accidents occur within a few miles of home. Don't risk it.
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best advice i've seen so far!

it saddens me to see so many people trying to justify that 'legally' they can tow a horse using a substandard car.. legal or not surely common sense would suggest that those types of cars are not designed to do such a job!
 
clipcloppop said:
this is also what i've heard (i think...). i think this just shows the greyness in the rules. no one really knows what the rule is. incl vosa and police as everyone seems to think different things. i am pretty sure this ^^^ is what our local traffic police look for.

personally, i think this greyness means that people could escape prosecution with enough of a fight... :)
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there is little or no grey areas in road trafic law its complicated for sure but there will be a definitive answer in the law book .. you may get away with offences because the police officer dosent spot a tecnical offence like say you are towing an over width continental or american caravan of which there are 100s about , and VOSA cannot make up laws they are only supposed understand and inforce the law...
 
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AandK said:
best advice i've seen so far!

it saddens me to see so many people trying to justify that 'legally' they can tow a horse using a substandard car.. legal or not surely common sense would suggest that those types of cars are not designed to do such a job!
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yes totaly agree but sadly there are alot of snobs that would rather drive a new small car than a decent older 4x4
because they think its more important to impress the people next door that have a older
car than it is to have something safe to tow there horses or they think MPG matters more than any other running cost so they will buy a 15 k car keep it 3 years and get 5 k back all because it might do another 10 mpg!!! rather than buy a landcruiser , Disco etc for 5 k keep it 3 years and get 3k back...
 
perfect11s said:
yes totaly agree but sadly there are alot of snobs that would rather drive a new small car than a decent older 4x4
because they think its more important to impress the people next door that have a older
car than it is to have something safe to tow there horses or they think MPG matters more than any other running cost so they will buy a 15 k car keep it 3 years and get 5 k back all because it might do another 10 mpg!!! rather than buy a landcruiser , Disco etc for 5 k keep it 3 years and get 3k back...
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agree!

i will be swapping my cheap as chips 1.1L 206 for a not-so-cheap-to-run towing vehicle (most likely a Disco) once i pass my B+E test. my horses safety is so much more important to me than mpg!!
 
eahotson said:
I am towing with a saloon car which has a maximum braked towing weight of1 150kgs. although kerb weight is over 1500kgs.I tow a single cheval liberte with a gross wight of 1400 kgs but an unladen of about 540kgs.horse on weight tape about 480kgs.I took advice from the BHS, the caravan club and the DVLA and all said I was safe and legal.
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Sorry, off topic, but am I misreading something here? your maximum towing weight is 1150kg, but your trailer and horse alone add up to more than that?
 
I have done a lot of towing and never had a jack knife.I have towed with a saloon and a four wheeled car.All our cars have been, and are new mercedes.It is all to do with driving with a modecum of common sense and not having a trailer that is too heavy for the kerb weight of the car.The old advice (which still holds good) and you will notice that it is advice, not a rule or law, is that you should only tow up to 85% of the cars kerbweight UNLESS the manufactuers stated braked towing weight is less, when you should observe that instead.In my cars case I should be able to tow safely more than 1150kgs but that is what the manufactures stated limit is so therefore I have to abide with that.
People used to and do tow perfectly safely with saloon cars.
 
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