traffiic and horses

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stormox

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I have read and heard of so many accidents with horses and traffic lately- it was actually tobiano1984 - how absolutely awful- so sorry- and the one where the riders were crossing a road and were hit by a motorbike- those poor people and horses. And my horse and I were hit by a lorry (luckily no lasting damage to me or horse) when my horse was spooked by a moped behind, started dancing around and the eejit riding it thought hed go between me and the kerb, spooking the horse into the path of an oncoming lorry which luckily just grazed my horses side, I mustv instinctively jumped, I don't remember. Poor lorry driver was distraught.
But we need to get the message over to the motoring community- SLOWDOWN OR STOP AROUND HORSES. I see lots of posts, messages, adverts about this on horsey sites and FB pages but could anyone with motoring connections PLEASE spread the word on motoring and car sites? Anything that motorists and bikers would read - I am going to write to TOP GEAR to see if they would do a bit on their telly program. The message needs to get out to the wider community... Thanks everyone
 
While I completely understand your point, a lot of non equestrians will say that if you take an unpredictable animal on the road (which we all do, no matter how "bombproof") then we accept that an accident could happen. While the rider may feel the horse tense up or about to do something, a driver can't! It doesn't excuse the behaviour of some drivers, but there will always be a stronger counter argument. Equestrianism is the minority compared to non equestrian, so it will be a long and hard process to get everyone to understand.
 
Yeh- but isn't that just the point? We are as careful as we can be on an unpredictable animal. So they must be MORE careful around us than they would normally be when overtaking, etc- after all, at the very least it will inconvenience them too- damage their car, delay their journey, maybe a court case...... and like the lorry driver who hit me when it wasn't his fault in the slightest- be really upset.
 
I completely agree.

This was my point on the thread about the think horse ad. Whilst some out their are completely bone idle and too stubborn to except that they might not be right about everything, there are others who act the way they do because they simply don't realise how important it can be- eg riding two abreast. Or even just passing wide and slow.

At the end of the day, the more educated we can make people, the more likely it is that we can change their attitudes. Ok, they might still dislike seeing us on the roads, but they will understand how catastrophic the outcome can be if they don't adhere to the highway code.

Knowledge is power in my opinion!!

Regards to the Top Gear idea, you may actually be onto something. They've featured horses before and Hammond is a country bumbkin!
 
stormox said:
Yeh- but isn't that just the point? We are as careful as we can be on an unpredictable animal. So they must be MORE careful around us than they would normally be when overtaking, etc- after all, at the very least it will inconvenience them too- damage their car, delay their journey, maybe a court case...... and like the lorry driver who hit me when it wasn't his fault in the slightest- be really upset.
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But WHY must they be more careful? Perhaps it is time to realise that the average modern car driver has no more idea or thought about horses than he/she has about the man in the moon? And perhaps, with regret, it is time to realise that the day of the horse as king of the road is over? I gave up the fight 20 years ago and no longer attempt to ride my horses down the road: too dangerous, too nerve racking, and not fun any more.
 
I do alot of driving and I think a message in general is "think of others.Be patient". Driving in general is now so much more impatient and agressive. But so much more needs to be done re horses,pedastrians and cyclists.People were horrified today at work when i told them of the posters horrific accident last friday but all owned up to being impatient behind a horse. so sad. those fews extra seconds to be courtious to someone else can save a life
 
Cortez said:
I gave up the fight 20 years ago and no longer attempt to ride my horses down the road: too dangerous, too nerve racking, and not fun any more.
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This is quite something coming from someone as experienced as you, Cortez. I'm coming to the same conclusion, though. I used to hack everywhere without a moment's hesitation.

It's not just me getting older, wiser and wimpier, but the fact that the traffic round here has got busier and faster, and the drivers are much less attentive than they used to be. Riding on the road scares the willies out of me nowadays, I'm not sure that I can face doing it again :(.
 
babymare said:
I do alot of driving and I think a message in general is "think of others.Be patient". Driving in general is now so much more impatient and agressive. But so much more needs to be done re horses,pedastrians and cyclists.People were horrified today at work when i told them of the posters horrific accident last friday but all owned up to being impatient behind a horse. so sad. those fews extra seconds to be courtious to someone else can save a life
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I think this sums it up frankly, there was a cyclist killed near here a few weeks ago, apparently a wagon driver had got out and ranted at police or the hold up while the man lay dead on the road - shocking.

I do think it is a risk to ride on any road nowadays, but sadly many of us have no alternative available and I'd hate to see horses confined to a school for the rest of their lives if there is nowhere safe to hack. I do think that the days of 'safe' road riding are numbered sadly.
 
But as a horse community we have to do all we can. OK some people dont like hi viz but come on make yourselves seen all year. Know the correct hand signals know correct manner on how to ride on road.Smile. Show appriciation. Talk to people you work with like I did today explaining not only as poor girl lost her horse,been horrifically injured but will also affect her livelyhood. There will always be the guy we have at work who believes he owns the road(but was shot down by others) but if 1 person listens to each of us its a plus.We owe to ourselves and our horses to talk. Im even of thinking of printing that poor girls post off and putting it on our notice board
 
Where there is a right to use the roads, and horse riders do have a right to ride on the roads, same as cyclists, there needs to be awareness. Im sorry but its simply not good enough to say that we should just suck it up and not ride on the road. We have an absolute RIGHT to ride on the roads and car drivers, cyclists, motorcyclists can be and are held liable for their actions should they cause an accident by their own stupidity and careless driving. The Highway Code is very clear on how drivers should behave around horses, so not knowing about horses is not an excuse when drivers do not follow the safety measures laid out by that Highway Code - its in there for a reason and is part of the learning experience when learning to drive. The way some of these drivers race around country rodes also indicates that they have no clue how to drive on country roads and single lane roads - even when driving my own car, I come across them. Absolutel idiots who need completely retrained in the art of handling a vehicle. More needs to be done to highlight the damage to not only horse and rider, but to drivers who have no clue what a half ton of horse through their windscreen will do to them.

I have noticed a marked change in driver behaviour around myself and my horse since being given a Helmetcam for my Xmas by my OH. I have not had a single car refuse to slow down when asked, they have all given me tons of space and I feel a little safer out on the road now. My horse is very good on the roads fortunately but as someone else mentioned they are not bombproof 100% so due respect should be given by all road users when passing them - the same as cyclists, motorcyclists and other drivers should be given due respect.
 
Cortez said:
But WHY must they be more careful? Perhaps it is time to realise that the average modern car driver has no more idea or thought about horses than he/she has about the man in the moon? And perhaps, with regret, it is time to realise that the day of the horse as king of the road is over? I gave up the fight 20 years ago and no longer attempt to ride my horses down the road: too dangerous, too nerve racking, and not fun any more.
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Good for you!!!


Some of us have no choice but to ride down roads to get to bridleways. You seem to conveniently think the answer is to get horses off the rd and back in the fields. Where is it going to stop?? asking cyclist to get off the rd?? the modern day average motorist do not think ahead of dangers cars stopped to turn? someone off their bike and they still fly round corners at breakneck speed.

The highways could help with issuing warning spots where there is a stables on the rd, and riders can help themselves by wearing hi viz.

The comment if you take an unpredictable animal on the road (which we all do, no matter how "bombproof") then we accept that an accident could happen.
 
Totally agree Shutterbug. Horses have the right to be on any road bar motorways. But driving as changed.People lives have changed We can all say we have to rush somewhere.I also agree we should not have to ride elsewhere because of it.We have a right to ride on a road along with car drivers cyclists etc. As a horse person i understand that but many drivers see it as thier domain only. Sad reflection that lives can often be so fasted paced(even when driving isee it from other drivers) that people forget others. speed limits in built up areas. who just edges that. I have though try not to. What im trying to say(badly lol) is maybe we all need to think when driving and be a little more patient in general but also talk explain to those you work with. And also hi viz. Make a point of im with a smile. sorry 2 glasses of wine so prob just rambling :) But even though horseless now i will keep plugging away at "be patient be aware" :)
 
Probably be shot down but.... I don't agree with horses being on busy roads!! Off road hacking and hacks on very quiet roads alway in hi viz yes, but a flight animal with its own mind and ability to be unpredictable should not be ridden around busy traffic, lorries etc in my opinion is asking for trouble!! If I want to hack to the beach I have to hack along a 1 mile section of A road but if I do decide to go to the beach (rarity) I set off at 6am on a Sunday morning so as not to encounter much traffic or be a nuisance to vehicle driving road users!! Roads are just too dangerous for me to risk unfortunately, so I feel we need to adapt when and where we ride as the majority of road users will never change their way of driving for horses!!!!
 
I do think that drivers should be made as aware as possible about the danger of horses on the road my car was written off by a loose horse galloping into it it took a long time for my passenger a small child to get over the accident the horse was unhurt and galloped another 7 miles before it was caught I saw it coming and was stationary when it hit me but the metal on its tack destroyed my car, More recently I saw another loose horse stopped kicked the passenger out to catch it but while I was stopped in the middle of the road to protect the girl and the horse people were trying to push past in the time it took for the horse to be caught, the reins unknotted from round its feet and the owner given it back when we pulled into the town the cars that had overtaken dangerously were the two cars in front of us at the traffic lights they obviously got a lot further by acting dangerously didnt they
 
I'm not fortunate enough to keep my horse in an area with perfect hacking or quite roads.
In fact I use a very busy road connecting two of the busiest cities in my region every time I hack out. This isn't by choice, purely because I have no other option and it's the only way to get to the quiet country roads.
BUT I am sensible about it. I won't go out near rush hour, always wear high viz and ALWAYS acknowledge. I have also written to a fair few companies asking them to relay my thanks to the driver in that area at that time- and explain in the letter why I feel it's so important.
I know of a few people who moan about driver's ignorance when they don't acknowledge or wear high viz. Not that this excuses any of it- but if everyone showed appreciation every time a driver drive passed carefully then maybe the driver will KEEP driving carefully atound horses x
 
The comment
if you take an unpredictable animal on the road (which we all do, no matter how "bombproof") then we accept that an accident could happen.
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. Fails SHORT to appreciate most young horses are unpredictable when the first start out on the rd. So how in gods name can you make them more "Bombproof" unless you take them out?

Riders can help themselves and help their horses by wearing caution young horse tabard, giving drivers warning the horse is unsure of the road experience.

Most drivers who fly round these country lanes use it as cut through and have no thought of anything else but being in their bubble car with their music on.
 
pinkypug1 said:
Probably be shot down but.... I don't agree with horses being on busy roads!! Off road hacking and hacks on very quiet roads alway in hi viz yes, but a flight animal with its own mind and ability to be unpredictable should not be ridden around busy traffic, lorries etc in my opinion is asking for trouble!! If I want to hack to the beach I have to hack along a 1 mile section of A road but if I do decide to go to the beach (rarity) I set off at 6am on a Sunday morning so as not to encounter much traffic or be a nuisance to vehicle driving road users!! Roads are just too dangerous for me to risk unfortunately, so I feel we need to adapt when and where we ride as the majority of road users will never change their way of driving for horses!!!!
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I only ride on "quiet lanes" now and they're blooming scary. Oncoming traffic thinking they're being great by slowing from, say 40 to 30mph a few feet away from you. My last horse had a habit of throwing herself in front of them at the last second so I cannot deal with it any more, and I'm trying to do endurance. :(

If horses weren't allowed on the roads, or we all just gave it up for a bad job that would be hacking, hunting and endurance in many areas completely screwed. All I can think of is moving to somewhere in the middle of nowhere but even then it would be the one possessed farm truck/ work van/ horse box(!!)/ etc driver I met a week instead of five that scared the hell out of me and then my horse and I would be less accustomed to it. The only solution is the motorists changing their ways and its not going to happen, is it?
 
pinkypug1 said:
Probably be shot down but.... I don't agree with horses being on busy roads!! Off road hacking and hacks on very quiet roads alway in hi viz yes, but a flight animal with its own mind and ability to be unpredictable should not be ridden around busy traffic, lorries etc in my opinion is asking for trouble!! If I want to hack to the beach I have to hack along a 1 mile section of A road but if I do decide to go to the beach (rarity) I set off at 6am on a Sunday morning so as not to encounter much traffic or be a nuisance to vehicle driving road users!! Roads are just too dangerous for me to risk unfortunately, so I feel we need to adapt when and where we ride as the majority of road users will never change their way of driving for horses!!!!
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I would personally never ride on a busy main road, I use quiet country roads to get to off road hacking and would never, for example, ride in town. I am also aware of busy times on my roads as they are used as a way of avoiding traffic jams on the main roads and I avoid riding at those times - usually 8am and 4/5pm, Common sense should obviously apply to keep ourselves as safe as possible. But when driving in the country, and on country roads, drivers should expect country traffic including horses, tractors, horse and cart, cattle being moved and so on and its not unreasonable to ask them to alter their driving style to suit the roads they are on. Most of them are too arrogant to do so though, and dont realise how dangerous their driving is until they have an accident.
 
Leviathan said:
Most drivers who fly round these country lanes use it as cut through and have no thought of anything else but being in their bubble car with their music on.
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Plus using mobile phone, texting, checking sat nav etc etc. The art of driving on the correct side of the road seems to be a dying one too, I regularly get forced onto the verge by oncoming vehicles even when I'm in the car.
 
Pinkypug thats great but to get to most off road riding most have to hack.Country lanes(and i live inthe country) are worst even for a driver! People who see it as a race track. people who complain that farm tractor held them up. Ideal world mmmm? All drivers( including us) would step of the power.Would think of others inc other drivers.Will that happen? For all our sake,equine or not,i doubt it. So get talking to people :)
 
Maybe I'm just lucky the roads around my yard are quiet... Very few vehicles and most who are about are horsey people who expect horses around most corners!! Personally I just don't understand why people would want to hack up a busy main road!! I wouldn't walk my toddler along a busy road at peak time so why would I walk my horse. I had a friend in a horrid accident many years ago and just don't get great pleasure out of mixing horses & fast moving vehicles & unfortunately most drivers will never change their way of driving imo!!
 
Leviathan said:
The comment. Fails SHORT to appreciate most young horses are unpredictable when the first start out on the rd. So how in gods name can you make them more "Bombproof" unless you take them out?

Riders can help themselves and help their horses by wearing caution young horse tabard, giving drivers warning the horse is unsure of the road experience.
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I didn't say anything to the contrary in my post though, did I? I just said that horses are unpredictable, regardless of how well they are trained. If you take a young horse on the road, you thus accept that it is inexperienced in such a situation, and should that horse react and cause an accident, the responsibility is ultimately yours. But that also goes for a horse that has been foot perfect hacking for the past fifteen years!

Of course, it is imperative for drivers to understand how to pass horses safely. It isn't highlighted enough in driving lessons, or in the general media.

As I said in my other post, it is going to take a lot of time, effort and inevitably, expense, to get the correct message across.

Saying that, there will always be that one twonk who knows best, won't there? And they will nearly always be the one involved in an accident, and usually as the instigator.

It's a shame, but sometimes you have to be realistic, and that will then lead to progression, as you are not aiming for something that is unobtainable.
 
Let's have a look at this from a different perspective - that of the horse being asked to hack out on roads. I doubt, given the nature of the beast, that given the choice any horse would choose to put its life in such danger. We have a duty of care to our horses - are we expecting too much from them ?
 
You lot in the UK have a much more horse-friendly environment than we do here in Ireland - bridleways, dedicated horse crossings, bridges, etc.; none of these exist over here. I live on a small country lane and wouldn't dream of risking being flattened by a lorry/bus/flying car coming round our blind bend. My neighbour gave up driving his dairy cattle the 500m down the road for milking 15 years ago; he has an underground passage between the two halves of his farm. It is unrealistic to expect the average car driver to be thinking "Perhaps I'll meet a horse around this bend - better slow down!"; NOT going to happen, and I don't think it is worth the risk of maiming or killing horse or rider to prove the "right" to ride on the road. It may be perfectly legal; it is not sensible.
 
Cortez said:
. It is unrealistic to expect the average car driver to be thinking "Perhaps I'll meet a horse around this bend - better slow down!"; NOT going to happen,
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Maybe not thinking horse but should have ft above the brake going round a corner as anything can be round it, broken down bus /car.

Car stopped indicating to turn right or left, its foolish to flaw round a bend when you have no clue what lies round the bend inc police speed trap.

One girl came round our corner in hi viz and arm out, stupid woman flaw round corner nearly hit them. What did she do???? came down to our yard and said rider ought to continue up the rd 200 yards go round the triangle and come back down the rd on the other side to the drive.

That is not going to happen.
 
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I would like to see more of those "Watch out for horses" type signs on roads with yards or near bridleways and maybe more use of reduced speed limits on B roads going past farms and what have you, even a reduction from open speed limit to 50mph or even 40mph would save so many lives.
The other morning I was literally only crossing the road, just crossing it, not even riding on the road, which I hate doing. It was about 7am, still dark, I was with a friend, both our horses in hi-viz exercise sheets, I was in my hi-viz builder's coat, we could be seen from Orbit. You can also see for miles in one direction (not so much in the other direction) My friend went out onto the road first, in far distance we could see a car but thought we had more than enough time to get across before he was upon us, we cross this road most mornings, but we didn't allow for the excessive speed he was doing and he did not slow down one iota, and he could see us easily, my friend got across but I got stuck on the other side of the road, the side with poor visibility for drivers(luckily no cars coming that way) whilst he sped past going a lot more than 60. My God I felt lucky that day, it could have ended so badly.
 
Cortez said:
But WHY must they be more careful? Perhaps it is time to realise that the average modern car driver has no more idea or thought about horses than he/she has about the man in the moon? And perhaps, with regret, it is time to realise that the day of the horse as king of the road is over? I gave up the fight 20 years ago and no longer attempt to ride my horses down the road: too dangerous, too nerve racking, and not fun any more.
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I appreciate that car drivers won't know when a horse is likely to have a "moment" on the road, which is why it is imperative that they obey a riders hand signals. On the other hand riders can help themselves by choosing their times to ride carefully, paying attention to the roads, trotting on to let drivers past where possible and learning hand signals. I believe that riders and drivers can coexist on the roads but there needs to be more respect on both sides of the equation.
 
Tiddlypom said:
This is quite something coming from someone as experienced as you, Cortez. I'm coming to the same conclusion, though. I used to hack everywhere without a moment's hesitation.

It's not just me getting older, wiser and wimpier, but the fact that the traffic round here has got busier and faster, and the drivers are much less attentive than they used to be. Riding on the road scares the willies out of me nowadays, I'm not sure that I can face doing it again :(.
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Glad it is not just me. I hate roadwork. Roads round here are fairly ok but I can always come up with an excuse not to use them.
 
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