Tragic horse deaths from contaminated food

[ester]

Not necessarily, it depends on environmental factor (I am trying not to get too much into the growth dynamics)

Spores in soil or dead animal > end up in baled haylage which is an anaerobic atmosphere> in the correct conditions the spores germinate to vegetative cells> vegetative cells replicate and toxin produced.
They will not do that in a pH <4.5 - hence if you have enough lactic acid bacteria growing the above process is stopped hopefully relatively early on.

The toxins are heat labile but I'm not sure what sort of degradation rate there is for them so at what point if you have had some clostridia growth and it's then been knocked on the head (technical term) how long it takes for the toxins to not be toxins anymore. My expertise is with a non-toxin producing clostridia (whole bloody thesis on it )

 

[Polos Mum]

To save me googling can anyone tell me if storing haylage for longer than 6 weeks kills botulism? I don’t currently feed haylage but I’m curious to know how botulism ends up in it.

No - if anything the longer you leave it the more contaminated it would get. It comes from gut of dead animals (mice etc. baled up) or soil of the soil is infected. It does need specific conditions to grow - dampness / pH etc. so not all haylage with soil in would have botulism.
At the correct pH it wouldn't grow - that means cutting and turning appropriate then wrapping correctly. Badly wrapped or damaged wrap and it won't ferment properly so pH wont drop low enough for it to kill all the nasties.

Seems more common in the USA, where they strongly advise not feeding haylage on the floor (where left overs could mix with soil and then be eaten a few days later) and also to make sure you use up bales promptly when opened.

Cows are much more tolerant of it so cattle farmers don't need to be so careful.

As far as I can see, you can't smell it or see mould with it on or test easily for it on an open bale. But it is pretty rare - or this sort of thing would happen more often - sadly.

 

[ester]

you don't get a low pH straight away though so it doesn't follow that longer left = more botulinum toxin but condition dependent.

If you are smelling it it is more the effect of a too high pH you'd be sniffing for.

 

[meleeka]

No - if anything the longer you leave it the more contaminated it would get. It comes from gut of dead animals (mice etc. baled up) or soil of the soil is infected. It does need specific conditions to grow - dampness / pH etc. so not all haylage with soil in would have botulism.
At the correct pH it wouldn't grow - that means cutting and turning appropriate then wrapping correctly. Badly wrapped or damaged wrap and it won't ferment properly so pH wont drop low enough for it to kill all the nasties.

Seems more common in the USA, where they strongly advise not feeding haylage on the floor (where left overs could mix with soil and then be eaten a few days later) and also to make sure you use up bales promptly when opened.

Cows are much more tolerant of it so cattle farmers don't need to be so careful.

As far as I can see, you can't smell it or see mould with it on or test easily for it on an open bale. But it is pretty rare - or this sort of thing would happen more often - sadly.

Thankyou for explaining so well.

 

[Red-1]

I was always told that if you have a wet bale of haylage, with soil, then discard.

Dry haylage with a bit of soil is safe enough, and wet but clean haylage is safe enough, it is wet and dirty haylage that must be thrown.

I am not a farmer, scientist or whatever.

 

[Polos Mum]

you don't get a low pH straight away though so it doesn't follow that longer left = more botulinum toxin but condition dependent.

No absolutely - I guess i was trying to say that if it was made badly with contamination then no matter how long you left it - it wouldn't get any better, indeed it would get worse potentially as the toxin would continue to be produced.

Would it be fair to say - if it's well made then it wouldn't get toxin in - in the first place, if it's OK made you'd get a bit of toxin initially - then that would stop because eventually you get to the level of pH that stops any more being produced

 

[ester]

I think so yes, essentially you are aiming for multi-hurdle approach to prevent it being an issue, each hurdle lost = increased risk especially as it doesn't take much toxin to be an issue.

It is very sad all round still.

 

[irishdraft]

Absolutely tragic for everyone concerned. I carnt imagine being on the yard and losing that amount of horses. Someone I know lost a horse to botulism so I always stick to well made hay

 

[SO1]

I had no idea how dangerous haylage could be if contaminated.

Hopefully this tragic situation will at least have educated others to avoid similar situations.

 

[paddy555]

I had no idea how dangerous haylage could be if contaminated.

Hopefully this tragic situation will at least have educated others to avoid similar situations.

I doubt it will sadly. Having nearly lost one to botulism which almost killed both of us dealing with him I only use hay.

This happened a long time ago and I pointed it out to some who asked. They took no notice. I know of some yard owners (their own horses) who understand the risk and accept they will lose some.

 

[SO1]

Well it has made a difference to me. I won't use it again. I don't feed my pony haylage as he doesn't need it but if I am ever offered it I say no and explain why.

I doubt it will sadly. Having nearly lost one to botulism which almost killed both of us dealing with him I only use hay.

This happened a long time ago and I pointed it out to some who asked. They took no notice. I know of some yard owners (their own horses) who understand the risk and accept they will lose some.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I stopped feeding large bale haylage when I found a massive chunk of soil, probably a large mole hill, in one yard bale. Told the yard owner, who also made haylage but this wasn't one of their bales, and they had no idea it could be a problem and why! They removed it from liveries but just took it out to the field for their own horses! It just brought it right home that you can't trust people who are making it to keep your horse as safe as possible! Small bales are safer because the pH change through the bale is faster.

I would feed haylage made by someone who really understands the risks and knows what they are doing like the chap who we used to buy off in Cumbria who made excellent haylage. But even then would favour small bale.

And I definitely, definitely wouldn't feed haylage while there is any chance of it still fermenting. It has to sit. I waited 6 weeks for hay and that felt like I was being hasty.

Forage poisoning/botulism is a risk of feeding forage no matter what you do. But there are things that reduce the risk. If my yard owner had not done everything reasonable to reduce the risk for my horse and my horse had died... well I'm not sure what I'd do! It probably wouldn't be kind.

 

[HBB]

If my yard owner had not done everything reasonable to reduce the risk for my horse and my horse had died... well I'm not sure what I'd do! It probably wouldn't be kind.

I would be the same, mistakes happen but I have seen some awful unhygienic practices on yards and YO's who only provide haylage and it's usually the cheaper the better. It's awful stuff, big bale haylage, when you've seen a yard of 9 horses excessively farting, guts gurgling loudly and scouring, it's time to stop using it.

 

[RHM]

Has anyone had the botulism vaccine for their horses? I know it’s quite popular in the US, after this I would be strongly considering it!

 

[mini-eventer]

Haylege appears to have a reputation to being a better feed round here. One livery really panicked about feeding her horse hay incase it lost weight/ energy when haylege was not available. I much prefer hay and find all my horses do well on it. Haylege always seams to make them a bit squitty and can make some a bit sparkly.

I do rinse my hay to make sure it is as dust free as possible.