Trainer being a bit "heavy handed" with my horse

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I would have shouted, mine was really headshy when I first got him. A horse agent I know said that possibly he wasn’t backed in the kindest way and the methods she’s seen used in Ireland (she was a horse agent over there) are less than ideal. I absolutely could not stand by if someone thumped my horse. Could someone else ride/hand him til you’re back to fitness? As his owner, you’re responsible for his welfare and the one who should be looking out for his well being/safety.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Does your horse need riding or would he/she be ok with a few weeks off ?

if not then i would make sure to be there everytime she works with your horse.
If anything else happens that you are not comfortable with please make sure to say something

 

[Archangel]

It's odd isn't it. I bet when the trainer was riding the horse it was all about appropriate contact/acceptance of the bit and all that.
Then a few minutes later when on the ground a sock in the gob is perfectly alright.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Why are people in general so frightened of advocating for their horse?
You are the only one your horse has , the only one who can protect them from violence and abuse. Not speaking out is like turning a blind eye to someone hitting your friend.

If you're too emotional at the time ,.then say to the person after the event "I saw you slapped/hit/struck (or whatever word you want to use) my horse on the face the other day. I'm really not happy with that , can we work something out to make sure it never happens again?"

I'm ballsy enough to jump on it the moment I see anything unacceptable and frankly I don't care about anyones feelings- you just don't hurt my horse. Just don't.

 

[Horseysheepy]

I would have dropped what I was doing and walked over and said is "everything alright?"

Even if the trainer had said "yes, fine thanks", it will let her know that her actions had not gone unnoticed.

 

[Sandstone1]

I would have said something. No one hits my horse.

 

[Xmasha]

i guess its irrelvant as to what you should have done at the time, that time has gone. But what you can do is decide what to do going forward.
In your shoes id get to the stables early , so you are there before the trainer. Be in the stable brushing horse etc and when the trainer arrives id ask them what happened the other day. Explain that you are unhappy about the way the situation was handled. Maybe , just maybe your horse may have done something previously when you where not present ? Its no excuse for hitting the horse but its worth asking. Be prepared to lose the trainers services, and have a plan B ready.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I would have gone straight back over, thanked her for her help over the previous weeks while I have been injured, but her services would no longer be required. No one hits my horses. I don't care if you're Carl Hester himself. I will never tolerate anyone treating my horses like that.

 

[honetpot]

I had this once, and my attitude is you have to live with your horse for usually many years, if it has no issues for you, and it's safe to handle, no one should be changing the rules. The 'trainer', can walk away, and doesn't have to spend time fixing an issue they made. The next for the horse is turning its bum when someone walks in the stable, and then there is a chance of someone being injured.
I tackled it head on, I was polite but firm, remember who is paying who.

 

[MagicMelon]

The horse is better being kept ticking over .

In what way? Its not better for the horse to be smacked about. Its not even "better" for the horses welfare to be ridden, it wont care and Im sure most horses would choose not to be worked!

OP, this is exactly why I wouldnt have anyone else deal with my horses (I keep my horses at home, but if i liveried Id never consider anything else than DIY so nobody else dealt with my horse). You cant trust anyone these days, no matter their reputation. I would ride the horse myself, give it time off o lunge if you cant, and just say you dont need her working the horse anymore. Id never put up with anyone hitting my horses, totally unacceptable.

 

[estela]

Agree with MagicMelon. However if you feel you still need the trainer to ride I would make sure I was there the whole time. If anything untoward happens you can comment there and then. It may be a bit late now to bring up what you saw recently.

 

[LegOn]

I think the point is OP didnt say anything at the time so there is no point in saying 'you should have or I would have' because she didnt - for whatever reason.

So now you are left in the position of actually needing this trainer (rightly or wrongly) and how to address the situation.

I would definitely try to be there next time she tacks up but I would also address it - you could say sometimes like, 'Is my horse being good for you, I know sometimes my idea of good stable manners might not be everyones but I've worked really hard to gain their trust - sorry if he gets a bit close at times. If its ever too invasive - he understands when I push him away gently - just be careful though - I know you will of course - but he gets headshy very quickly and I dont want to have to go back to square one - I'd really appreciate it if you could just been mindful of it!

If she says he is bargy or in her face, then just thank her & say I know I've trained him a bit too well to trust me and be in my space, I know if its only a temporary situation so I hope you dont mind just putting up with him - I really dont want to have to deal with a headshy horse!

You can also say you went to give him a treat and raised your hand and he backed away & ask her did anything happen & just to be careful of correcting him around his head - maybe ask her to move his neck or give him a poke in the side instead.

Its a horrible feeling walking away from a situation knowing you should have done something that you didnt but we have all been there - we have all frozen in that moment, for whatever reason - we all deal with things differently so just try do whatever the thing is that makes you feel better but you are trying to do your best by you & your horse & your situation... its a tough one.

I had my YO ride my horse a couple of times, I adore her - I adore my yard - but she rode him a bit too harshly for my liking and wanted him to go the way SHE wanted him to go rather than just exercise him for me - so I just said he was having a bad day & laughted it off to my bad schooling but ended the session & didnt ask her again, I dont want to fall out with her or lose my yard!

 

[sbloom]

I generally think that that attitude must creep into ridden work too.

 

[ponynutz]

I generally think that that attitude must creep into ridden work too.

I imagine given OP was watching this time it probably does…

 

[Deleted member 163966]

Thank you everyone for your views. I'm so useless with confrontation!!!

I have asked the trainer to ensure she tells me when she's riding in future because I want to be there, using the "excuse" that it will give me a better idea of how things are going before I get back on myself - hopefully at Easter, all being well. I have also said that I will tack up and untack in future, to save her time, although it might be tricky with my injured arm (it's getting better, thankfully).

Interesting point from sbloom above ..... I generally think that that attitude must creep into ridden work too. .... certainly the trainer is a strong rider, but not to the point where I would have concerns: well, that is as far as I have observed. But, as I said, I'm not always there!.

 

[Carlosmum]

Let the person know you saw them smack your horse, it doesn't matter how long after. Say you were a little shocked at the reaction to your horse moving, and ask if its something the horse has done while untacking before. Don't be confrontational just agree it was out of character for horse and perhaps say if it happened with you, you might have reacted differently.

 

[sbloom]

Interesting point from sbloom above ..... I generally think that that attitude must creep into ridden work too. .... certainly the trainer is a strong rider, but not to the point where I would have concerns: well, that is as far as I have observed. But, as I said, I'm not always there!.

To me a strong rider is an issue, it depends on your perspective. Horses don't need holding up or strongly telling what to do, they need to be helped to find ways to move better. I understand that the strong rider is a generally acceptable phenomenon but it's worth examining this.

Have a look at Amy Skinner Horsemanship and Mills Consilient Horsemanship on FB, both US but they make great content looking at this sort of thing (and there are probably several here, I know LS Horsemanship, some lovely stuff on her page too.

 

[JackFrost]

Suppose it had been your child left in this person's care for a few minutes..... Would you still be, as you put it, ' useless with confrontation'?

 

[ponynutz]

I think you’ve taken a sensible approach and one that is right for you

Glad to hear you are getting better!

 

[Boughtabay]

Sounds like you’ve set up a situation now that your horse won’t be in that position again. When I saw someone at a nearby yard whack a horse around the face because he dared to begin to wander away slowly from where he’d been parked, I wanted to call out but felt in the moment it could’ve become an argument. Rather than ignore it I asked her if she needed help and held the horse “for her”, I think (hope) it made her feel uncomfortable that I’d implied she needed help with this obviously very quiet horse. So that’s always an option too. BUT I’ve decided to be much more direct if I saw similar in future.

 

[webble]

I would have had to say something at the time. "I would prefer you not to hit her head, I don't want a headshy horse". Then it would be up to the trainer what the next move was. As it is, I would make sure that you are there every time the trainer handles your horse in future.

If you're at a point where you have to ask someone to not hit your horse just for moving its head slightly then they have gone beyond the point of a polite chat if you ask me

 

[Cortez]

There's a vast gulf between what is expected of a pet horse and a professional's ride. Both sets of people are pretty likely to be horrified at the other's way of doing things - I won't go near my very fluffy friend's horses, (murderous beasts, they'll mow you down), and she keeps trying to feed mine polos and all sorts of rubbish (they spit them out, despite her best efforts).

If you don't want the professional chastising your horse then tell her so, or find a different rider.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

If you're at a point where you have to ask someone to not hit your horse just for moving its head slightly then they have gone beyond the point of a polite chat if you ask me

You obviously haven't been on the receiving end of my teacher voice! The trainer would have been left in doubt of my views from those 2 sentences, without having anything to argue about.

 

[huskydamage]

If you dont want to ditch the trainer just flat out ask them not to hit the horse on the head. When I used to do groom work Ive seem people both professional and not do some awful smacking of horses faces for doing almost nothing and I can't stand this tbh. One of my horses was so headshy when I got her I couldnt get her bridle/headcollar on, everytime I moved she ran to the back of her stable with her head in the air. It took me ages to sort it out. When people have looked after my horses I always ask that if they tell them off can they please not hit them on the head for this reason.

 

[PurBee]

I agree with most views the trainers behaviour was too heavy-handed and wouldnt like it at all, just because the horse moved its head.
Glad to hear youve come to arrangements so you’ll lessen their alone interaction with your horse.

The thing i’d also consider is *if*my horse is tense being around said trainer, because her ‘go to’ method of training behavioural issues is to whack, then they will be riding a tense horse, which isnt going to benefit the horse the valuable muscular exercise youre hoping to gain from these sessions, as the muscles are filled with catabolic stress-induced adrenaline.
I’d look at extra weight loss for a stressy handled/ridden horse as adrenaline burns calories without exercise and burns even more with exercise.
If your horse hasnt dropped kilo’s during these weeks of trainer riding, i wouldnt be too concerned their riding is an issue. If there is some unexplained noted weight loss, i’d remove trainer from riding/handling.

 

[sunleychops]

If it was that bad a 'smack' you would have said something at the time surely?

 

[ihatework]

It fascinates me how humans behave at times. I’m a pretty confident and up front person. A few years ago a trainer I very much respected behaved in a way towards my horse that was completely unacceptable (and I’m no fluffy owner).
I’ve replayed it in my mind multiple times over the years chastising myself for what I didn’t do.

I literally said nothing. A classic case of lost for words. And felt completely unable to address it afterwards.

So I can completely appreciate how you didn’t/couldn’t speak up at the time and even avoid it now!

On the other hand I have seen plenty of professionals correct behaviour from owners horses in a fairly black and white way and seen various interpretations of what happened that got blown out of proportion.

So my sensible head would say to reanalyse what you saw. If you are sure it crossed the line of what was acceptable (but you are otherwise happy with trainer) then big pants on and have a quick word with them about what you saw. Their attitude/ response may then drive whether you trust them moving forwards. EVERYONE has off days and has done things they wish they hadn’t (some worse than others obviously!)

 

[sbloom]

It's the sympathetic nervous system - fight, flight, freeze or fawn. Even those of us who are confident, even outspoken, can end up in one or both of the last two. Especially if you're a people pleaser (perhaps the definition of those who sit in the last one of the four).

 

[honetpot]

I literally said nothing. A classic case of lost for words

That was me to start off with, the pro who competed at a high level, lost it because they were losing face. It was at livery and I took it home the next day.
I think the trouble with some pros is they ride a certain sort of horse and it's like they go to horse borstal, where the horse can not move or think for its self, a any flicker is seen as disobedience. They are not riding how you want to be, but how they want it, which is OK if you signed up for that, but after over forty years of having different types big and small, it just not necessary. Our old pony who came back after fifteen years, first reaction was to turn his bum to you when you went in the stable, he had been nagged so much, when I sold him he had the charm and manners of Hugh Grant.
I would turn away until you can ride it, it's a lot harder to sort out a problem than prevent one.

 

[PurBee]

It's the sympathetic nervous system - fight, flight, freeze or fawn. Even those of us who are confident, even outspoken, can end up in one or both of the last two. Especially if you're a people pleaser (perhaps the definition of those who sit in the last one of the four).

Agree, its really hard to know how we would react to anything. For me it depends on my mood, im pretty laid-back so conflict is really irksome, but as someone else said, pmt is useful!

I froze today at the dentist upon arrival, i wanted to flight but knew i couldnt really. Totally unexpected reaction to having a huge painful tooth extracted by a dentist who’s somewhat scathing.
I really wished i had some sedalin in my bag! Grabbing hold of meditative mindset was all i could do. My body was wired with adrenaline but my mind wouldnt let me run, so i got home exhausted, with tooth still in mouth, to be extracted 5 days hence…..gotta go through it all again!