Trainers Championship

I think its great for racing to have another challenger to the trainers title. PN has won it plenty of times and well deserved I am sure from a training perspective (not keen on the man himself) but its good to have someone else come in and shake things up a bit and WM is perfectly entitled to bring his horses over to run here, just as the British trainers can go to Ireland anytime they want. Why they don’t is their choice but I guess most of the top races are here in Britain, when you consider our fixtures there are really good graded races every month. Imagine if he didn’t (or wasn’t allowed to) bring his horses, we (the paying punter) would miss out on seeing the likes of Annie Power, Douvan, Faugheen, Vatour – blimey the list is endless is it. As Alec said, success breeds success and that counts for any sport or business. The fact he has some of the best horses is because of this. It might be dull for some that he wins everything, but his horses are on the whole breathtakingly good. Clever buying certainly, but he and his team still have to manage these talented and delicate animals. He and PN are also very good at placing their horses in the right races, giving themselves the best chance of a winner.
Whether WM will win the title is yet to be decided, but what is most remarkable is that his UK prize money total has been won from very few races (23) and with a very few horses, when you compare to PN (111).
 
KautoStar1 said:
but what is most remarkable is that his UK prize money total has been won from very few races (23) and with a very few horses, when you compare to PN (111).
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Yes, but they have been the top sponsored prize money races not a run of the mill chase at Bangor so he hasn't had to win many to get to that amount of prize money unlike many of both PN and Nicky Hendersons & Co., which have been bread and butter races.

Nobody's denying WM talent and appreciate his stars coming over; they're doing nothing but good for racing, just saying it's unfair that he's allowed into the British trainer's championship simply because the races have been held over here. I'm sure the Irish would say the same if one of our trainers went and plundered their own championship just by winning a few big races up against those that slog for months on end in their own country.
WM isn't so much a raider now, he could take out British citizenship!
 
That's true Maesfen but hes won just as many races at home in Ireland as PN has over here.

I suspect he just targeted the usual grade 1 UK races with his good horses, as he has done for the last few years as normal and the championship thing has just snowballed in the usual media frenzy. I wonder if it was ever intentional ?

Its odd how the championships vary though, very inconsistent with number of winners for jockeys and prize money for trainers. Wish the BHA would sort that out.
 
When you think how many Grade 1 horses WMs has compared to PNs 1, Colin Tizzard has 2 so that gives you some idea that PN doesnt have the fire power of old but then he only had 3/4 in the good old days.

Un Deaux Seaux takes on Sprinter Sacre again at Sandown and I hope yet again SS proves the better horse, it will be some race though and the one Im looking forward to the most.
 
Mariposa said:
I totally agree! It should be like it is in the Jockey's championship.
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Or possibly F1? Points for placings rather than money won and with say the first three placed being on a sliding scale, would have the high flying trainers entering horses upon their possible merit, rather than the value of the winnings, at least for the race of the most successful trainer.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Or possibly F1? Points for placings rather than money won and with say the first three placed being on a sliding scale, would have the high flying trainers entering horses upon their possible merit, rather than the value of the winnings, at least for the race of the most successful trainer.

Alec.
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It depends how you quantify success does it not.
 
If you did it on winners not money then McCain would have won it hands down a couple of.times. He used to send out winner after winner after winner at all the small.meetings but only had a couple of very good horses.

That was before the bust up and he lost half.of his string though.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Un Deaux Seaux takes on Sprinter Sacre gain at Sandown and I hope yet again SS proves the better horse, it will be some race though and the one Im looking forward to the most.
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I am not sure that my heart can stand it! I am working Saturday morning, home in time for Sandown and am not speaking to a soul for the afternoon.
 
EKW said:
If you did it on winners not money then McCain would have won it hands down a couple of.times. He used to send out winner after winner after winner at all the small.meetings but only had a couple of very good horses.

That was before the bust up and he lost half.of his string though.
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I have been meaning to ask you - I see Jason Maguire went with the big owenrs (can't remember their names)... I thought him and DMcC were best friends? It must have been a double kick to lose your best horses and you friend. What happened? Is it common knowledge? I was so glad they didn't win the National!
 
EKW said:
If you did it on winners not money then McCain would have won it hands down a couple of.times. He used to send out winner after winner after winner at all the small.meetings but only had a couple of very good horses.

…….. .
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But if the Trainer's Championship was based upon winners and placings rather than the monies won, then rather than one trainer winning all the classics or the most lucrative races and being at the top of the tree, (s)he'd need to enter horses regardless of the potential winnings. Stands to reason! :)

Alec.
 
Dobiegirl said:
PN has won his 10th trainers title, congratulations to him and wasnt Sprinter Sacre just wonderful again today.
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I cried! (not for Paul Nicholls, although am delighted and huge congratulations to him) but when they showed the montage of SS beforehand and then when he won. I love that horse.
My RUK subscription finished today (I do it for 18 months at a time as I don't watch in the summer) so I can't watch the last three races, why is Vroom Vroom Mag a non runner? Is Willie having a sulk? I thought you weren't allowed to withdraw on a whim?
 
According to the RP VVM was withdrawn once Willie knew his chances of wining the trainers title was gone, presumably if she won it wouldnt have clinched the title for him. It does sound like a sulk as he will have robbed many racegoers the chance of seeing her as she is a special girl. PNs got the 1st and 2nd in that race just to further enhance his winnings. I do hope the stewards take a dim view of the withdrawal, WMs has certainly gone down in my estimation.With his challenge over, Mullins withdrew Vroum Vroum Mag from her intended race later on the card.
 
Dobiegirl said:
According to the RP VVM was withdrawn once Willie knew his chances of wining the trainers title was gone, presumably if she won it wouldnt have clinched the title for him. It does sound like a sulk as he will have robbed many racegoers the chance of seeing her as she is a special girl. PNs got the 1st and 2nd in that race just to further enhance his winnings. I do hope the stewards take a dim view of the withdrawal, WMs has certainly gone down in my estimation.
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Yes, I am ashamed of him, where do you stand if you had a bet before hand?
 
Dobiegirl said:
According to the RP VVM was withdrawn once Willie knew his chances of wining the trainers title was gone, presumably if she won it wouldnt have clinched the title for him. It does sound like a sulk as he will have robbed many racegoers the chance of seeing her as she is a special girl. PNs got the 1st and 2nd in that race just to further enhance his winnings. I do hope the stewards take a dim view of the withdrawal, WMs has certainly gone down in my estimation.
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Same here, I'm really pleased he didn't win the championship, assume he's keeping the mare for Punchestown now, he'll get a fine I imagine but won't care. Brilliant day's racing, sad that it's the end of the season and we've all summer to wait till it starts again !
 
Nicholls and Mullins also withdrew runners for the final race on the card. Mullins, who went on to win the British jumps season's final race with McKinley, scratched Burgas, while Nicholls took out Alcala and Chartbreaker.

All three withdrawals were blamed on the change of going and no penalties were handed out.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Nicholls and Mullins also withdrew runners for the final race on the card. Mullins, who went on to win the British jumps season's final race with McKinley, scratched Burgas, while Nicholls took out Alcala and Chartbreaker.

All three withdrawals were blamed on the change of going and no penalties were handed out.
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I guess they were lenient with them both in the circumstances and considering it was the last race of the season. In racing, rules are made to be broken !
 
What a wonderful day's racing - Menorah, Sprinter Sacre and The Young Master - who finally paid back my faith in him by winning, I've had money on him in every race this season!

I was pleased that Nicholls won the trainer, but even more delighted that Nicky Henderson got the Special award and that wonderful Thistlecrack won Horse of the Year. It might have been Nicholls and Mullins scrapping for the championship title, but I'll remember this season for Sprinter Sacre's come back ( as well My Tent) and Colin Tizzard's wonderful Cue Card and Thistlecrack.
 
And it was actually really good that they didn't win any of the major races!
On the RPs page there are a lot of comments about the withdrawals, but one says that in harness racing if you withdraw a horse for no reason other than you are sulking (I paraphrase) you cannot then run it anywhere else for two weeks. Good call!
 
Im glad they didnt win all the big races, great to see Menorah win as well and Dickie Johnson his first champion jockeys title. For me the season has been sensational with the wins of Sprinter Sacre,Cue Card & Thistlecrack who sadly being lame isnt going to Punchestown.

Next season Coneygree will be back and the horse Im most looking forward to seeing is Ar mad of Gary Moores, I can now spend my Saturday afternoons in the garden.
 
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