Trainers, do you prefer brutal & direct or nice & tactful?

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Farma

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Just a pondering as to say I have had some brutal training would be an understatement..but is that helpful...I cant decide?
I cant decide whether to carry on, take it all on the chin and bloomin try to get better or try and get a more tactful trainer who doesn't make me feel like giving up riding every time I finish!
I'm not normally a 'soft' person and am in a quandry whether to toughen up or just go elsewhere where I may take a longer road to getting to where I wanna go but captures the element of fun and confidence building ...hmmm.
Just wondered what everyone else goes for?
 
If you're not happy, change trainers.

If you keep on you will begin to loathe and dread riding lessons and put yourself under too much pressure and end up taking fun out of riding.

Confidence is a precious thing to have, easy to lose and a bugger to get back again. Some people benefit from a bit of brutal and honest and feel like they improve, but IMO if it leaves you wanting to give up it's really not doing you much good, sorry.

Have been in your exact position, swapped and am now having a whale of the time. It's fun, I'm getting more confident which fast-tracks our progress. Good luck with whatever you choose! :)
 
Well, I would say direct but not rude/brutal. I have had many trainers over the years, through college and work. My current (and best) trainer is very direct ;) but not rude/agressive, she is really honest, with a tone you don't mess with, you just know exactly what she means, when it is right and when it is wrong but she is also really genuine. I did not go looking for this sort of trainer as I lack self confidence, I *thought* I would be better with someone less direct but you know what, she is bl**dy brilliant and has turned my riding around very quickly and has boosted my confidence no end :D On reflection, my previous trainer who was in the nice and tactful bracket actually dented my confidence, I felt like we were not making any progress and being held back, the opposite of my thinking! Try a different trainer, more than one if necessary :)
 
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If your trainer makes you feel like giving up then they are not the one for you!

Ive met some brutal trainers but they still have the ability to give you a boost and make you feel good and like you have achieved something.

There are plenty of other professionals out there who will appreciate your dedication (and your money)!
 
I need tactful but honest. My jumping nerve is very fragile and I wouldn't cope with someone suddenly sticking a massive fence up or trying to point me at a massive XC fence but my old instructor used to sneak fences up when I wasn't looking but never over face me and it did the trick. It would only be one hole a time but the next session we'd start on the height we'd ended on.

For flatwork I need someone honest and 'brutal' but with a sense for humor.
 
OneInAMillion said:
I would SO much rather someone was brutal with me than told me I was perfect etc etc :rolleyes:
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Exactly my thoughts, I reeeaaally dont want to be told I'm perfect as its rather evident that I am not BUT is it better to just be told all of the negative points and how what you are doing is so utterly awful or is it better to have a combination of the positives too?

I have never ever suffered nerves riding any horse nor do I suffer from show nerves but I do now suffer pre-lesson nerves!
The problem is the trainer is right in what they are telling me but clearly frustrated that i don't put it right immediately (I do try I hasten to add!)
 
It does not take great skill to criticise technique etc. however, it does take skill and knowledge to show positively how to achieve better results. I would always expect an instructor to be able to explain and demonstrate, if necessary, the corrections to improve the way in which the horse and rider combination is working. If in doubt i would say you seriously need to reconsider this instructor for you
 
If you don't enjoy your lesson then don't go back! I have had a few lessons from different trainers over the summer on my youngster. They have varied from the 'keep it nice and easy' but I don't feel we have moved on much, one is very direct about my faults but does it in a jokey fun way so I don't mind as much...and he pushes me that bit much so I feel I have moved on. The worst was from someone who kept pushing me and the horse to the limits and I left with me and the horse having lost our confidence. In hindsight I shoud have said no she has only started jumping I don't want to do that but... I have found the best trainer now to suit me, have known her years anyway and she has had my horse at her yard for a while so she knows us both. Try a few trainers, you will soon know what suits you. You should not leave a lesson in tears like I have done in the past, it should be fun and enjoyable!
 
I dont mind someone telling I look like a sack of tatties or similar descriptions, as long as they blooming fix it :D

I cant stand trainers that just stand in the middle of an arena and shriek at you, I eventually turn off to them :rolleyes: either that or they get told where to get off :D

My current RI is perfect for me, she tells me what to do and if i dont do it right doesnt keep repeating it over and over again she asks me what i dont get about what I am trying to do, also has more than one way of doing stuff as well, I hate that the 'one trick pony' instructors, not worth the money.
 
I prefer direct and 'brutal' but as kirsty said with a sense of humour! Both my sj and dressage instructors are not everyone's cup of tea, and are much more likely to be direct and brutal than tactful and quiet, but I really really want to improve my riding and can take as much criticism as they can give as long as it comes with advice on how to improve! I was having lessons with another sj instructor previously but she was always saying how well we were doing and not to worry that I felt out of balance and like I wasn't really contributing to how horse was jumping etc. Changed trainers, got toldexactly what I was going wrong and how to fix it, and am now feeling much more positive and jumping significantly bigger! Just got to remember it all and hold it all together when competing now!!!
 
I prefer tactful, I had 3 years of direct and brutal and it ruined my confidence in my ability to ride. There's no reason tactful can't be the truth its just a matter of phrasing. For example if I muck the stride up to a fence then I don't need someone to tell me that I made a real hash of that and if I keep doing that then I'll ruin my horse. Instead I prefer the approach of ok do it again and this time push on a bit more to get a more comfortable take off.
 
There is a fine line between brutal and pulling you apart and putting you back together and making you lose confidence.

If you feel like you are losing confidence - trainer is not for you but if you feel inspired and like you have a lot of hard work ahead but you will be better for it then keep going.
 
Teaching is a skill like any other and totally separate to someone knowing what they're about.

I don't think it has to be a choice. In fact the best trainers for the "average" rider (even one at a high level of competition) is someone who knows how to balance all the aspects - accurate observation, truthful advice, information, encouragement, support, motivation etc. If the instructor is trying to motivate you with his/her own frustration then that is, in my opinion, unprofessional. Yes, people get frustrated and there's nothing horrible about letting that out, but if you are supposed to "perform" to make that person happy . . . well, that's not what you're there for, is it? They should want you to do well for your own and your horse's sake.

There are some very top trainers who are brutal, in part because they get away with it! And at the highest level, when it's a game of inches, having someone who will give you the edge is worth a lot, even if it's unpleasant. Also, the people taking training at that level almost always have many positives - other support, comp results etc - to balance things out.

It depends a lot on "you", too. Some people just have thicker skin. I rode with someone who was brutal to the point of cruelty. I stayed because I had NO money, lots of ambition, and could never have afforded to ride with someone "user friendly" at the same skill level. I learned a lot but it also did me a fair bit of damage! I have since ridden with people who were just as "direct" but not nearly as destructive, mostly because they were MORE successful and didn't take me and my riding so personally.

It really depends a bit on what you want. I think if you don't want to go to lessons, there's your answer. :) It can't hurt to try someone else. But can you get what this person offers you elsewhere? I suspect you can but if not then it might be a more difficult choice.
 
im just gonna say that if i felt like giving up on riding i would get out of there strait away, but if you feel like you are getting somewhere kept at it.
i personally, would prefer someone who would work with me rather than against me, as this would give the the confidence i would need to continue........but its up to you!
hope helped :)
 
Couldn't agree more with Tarrsteps

When I train, I don't tell someone they're good when they're not - it's a waste of their time and mine - but I try and point out the positive (and sometimes that's hard lol!) and then give them something to work on to improve further

I love the art of teaching - getting the feel from my experience of riding, into my head, into words that my pupil understands and translating that into their actions. If the pupil doesn't understand, they won't be able to act on my words, and I will have failed.... I have to find the right words to explain, so that they can "feel" what I'm trying to tell them

If an instructor is getting frustrated that the pupil is not doing what they're asked, then they're being asked wrong.

AFAIK, my lessons are fun (people laugh in them), helpful (horses and riders go better) and successful - they rebook! But I don't tell them they're perfect, I tell the truth, but I'm nice about it :) :)
 
Down to earth with a sense of humour. I don't expect to be told I am great, but equally I don't want to have any of my confidence taken away, lessons are to build confidence - not destroy it imho.

I also enjoy a good laugh in a lesson if its appropriate, I don't mind if the jokes on me if its done in good humour. My favourite instructors are those (if young enough to be capable ;) ) that 'canter' round the arena for me to demonstrate what I am supposed to be doing - that way I get a laugh too ;) :D
 
Brutal is fine, but they have to be brutal correctly and know when to be kind and praise too. Al's instructor is very strict, and she gets told off in ways which make us laugh a lot watching the videos. Works very well, Al has never been so confident.
 
I can take it as brutal as they want to give it, lol!

I am desperate to improve my riding and help to make my youngster into the horse I know he can be. I do want them to praise when we get it right and show us the path... But I need pushing in general (life!) and someone on the ground with a bit of agression works for me.
 
If I were you I would definitely try someone else.

To me me it must be somewhere in between, never brutal and never too nice! The top choice would be the trainer who by his/her advice makes you want to be the best you can be. I personally like direct but it must come within constructive context not just the trainer getting rid of their frustration because they can't explain something well enough.
I don't mind a sharp observation or a bit of a get-up note if I am doing something well below my abilities but brutal as in abusive is not what brings the best out of me that's for sure.

Nice & tactful won't do me either - definitely a serious fun, demanding and always progressive type training would be my choice.

I recently had a dressage lesson with someone I would totally agree with on all points raised but who tried to teach me in 60min what takes at least a year to learn. In a pushy, go-go-go, this is wrong, wrong, wrong kind of way.
I then had a training with someone else who was equally demanding but with none of the frustration at my trial & errors when following some of the instructions. Needless to say I learnt more in 45 min with that second trainer than I would in a year with the first one ( I probably would have given up horses with the first one actually!)

I think in any sport brutal coaching kills the pleasure of training (as many sports autobiographies reveal). I guess it just depends whether you like to be a martyr or prefer to enjoy the effort.

The good training to me is when you CAN't wait for more! Sometimes I might feel like it's a tremendous struggle and I might get a bit of talking to but I think good training should always motivate, inspire, push and make the rider think that they can...because if you think you can, then you can :-D
 
LEC said:
There is a fine line between brutal and pulling you apart and putting you back together and making you lose confidence.

If you feel like you are losing confidence - trainer is not for you but if you feel inspired and like you have a lot of hard work ahead but you will be better for it then keep going.
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This, I pay someone to make me ride better. If they have nothing to say I don't like them as I am wasting my money. If they have loads to say but its all that is wrong and don't say how to improve, I don't like them either.

I want someone who says 'do this' and if I do what they say I can see a difference.
 
kirstyhen said:
I want a trainer with a sense of humour, so when they tell me I'm being a useless pleb, it's with a smile! I can cope with someone being as harsh as they like as long as they add a bit of humour with it!
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This is what I am like. I had lessons with someone I thought was the ideal foil to my 'gungho-ness' and it turned out that I got so paranoid it ruined my ability to even jump a 70cm track (I rode JAs as a kid!) the opportunity arose to have a lesson with someone I would never normally approach and it was a complete revelation. He understood me/my horse and our ambition (which was mainly to leave the ground and land together without too much drama in between!) Everything he does is in good humour, but pushing me all the while.
Back in no time to where I was before and able to confidently help my horse instead of crapping myself about a duff stride to an 80cm knock down jump!
My dressage trainer is also v direct (and funnily enough she actually trained the guy who I go to for jumping!) she is very hard but you always feel amazing when you have finished.
 
I think a trainer can be good and competent (and can get results) without being vicious. If you enjoy your lessons, you get more from them and you feel better about them. It's frustrating to hear that you are being told that you are rubbish, because you are so so so far from rubbish it's untrue! I'd question that: if she genuinely thinks you are no good, then does she actually know what she's talking about?!
 
Constructive criticism is good but criticism without the constructive part has no place in teaching.

Teaching is a skill in itself which can be often over looked.

I ride for fun, give me someone who can teach better than they can ride any day of the week!
 
HotToTrot said:
I think a trainer can be good and competent (and can get results) without being vicious. If you enjoy your lessons, you get more from them and you feel better about them. It's frustrating to hear that you are being told that you are rubbish, because you are so so so far from rubbish it's untrue! I'd question that: if she genuinely thinks you are no good, then does she actually know what she's talking about?!
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You are so lovely! But unfortunately she does know and I know (so do you lol) what faults I have its just hard to hear it sometimes in such a distructive and critical way. I am trying hard to fix them but definitely think a new trainer will help so I dont lose confidence in myself x
 
Farma said:
You are so lovely! But unfortunately she does know and I know (so do you lol) what faults I have its just hard to hear it sometimes in such a distructive and critical way. I am trying hard to fix them but definitely think a new trainer will help so I dont lose confidence in myself x
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Ah yes, we all have faults and I know that you want to fix yours - but having faults is most definitely not the same as being rubbish! You have far more good points than you do faults. I really like having lessons with Tracey, because she gives me masses of confidence. She makes me make my horse go so well and that is really good for both horse and me. If you are made to feel negative, by a negative trainer, you will ride negatively and then you have less chance of fixing your faults. Try having Tracey or S back to the yard?
 
kirstyhen said:
I want a trainer with a sense of humour, so when they tell me I'm being a useless pleb, it's with a smile! I can cope with someone being as harsh as they like as long as they add a bit of humour with it!
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Have you stolen my instructor??? :p She has several phrases to tell me I'm riding like a tit that make me laugh at the same time. In fact there is a facebook group dedicated to her choice of phrase.

I find it hard to go to new instructors after one I had at college ruiened(sp?) my confidence to the point that I wouldnt ride in front of others. The next one (stil at college) then just told me every thing was good when I knew it wasnt as I was riding like a pleb so then I would argue about it and tell her what I had done wrong :o. I hate the every thing is perfect type instructors as I just stop beieving what they are saying and start to pull my self apart even more than I normally do.
 
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