Nic
Well-Known Member
sending DA's passport off to register change of owner but just wondering how I stand with travelling/competing him without it. Is a photocopy enough?
Traveling/competing without passport
- Thread starter Nic
- Start date
H-J
Well-Known Member
I dont think you are alowed to compete or travel anything without a passport anymore
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
if you do get stopped tell them you are taking him for exercise and then you don't need one. I was stopped and had forgotton his passport and they said it was OK.
hollyzippo
Well-Known Member
I thought they had agreed that you are ok if you carry a copy? Designed to get round this problem
catnumber5
Well-Known Member
When i checked re photocopy - as passport had gone back to issuing place for change of ownership - I was told that photocopy was no use. Confusion.
Don't think it's worth the risk really - if you get inspector on bad day - you could end up with huge fine!!
Don't think it's worth the risk really - if you get inspector on bad day - you could end up with huge fine!!
BBs
Well-Known Member
Well IMO thats just ruddy crap.
At this time, I need to send off his passport to register him with BSJA plus I need to send it off to reg him for change of ownership.
Where as BE are quite happy to accept photocopies.
BLOOMING HECK
Not only that, I have the vet coming out next week to vacinate them all so I cant send them anywhere.
Oh and Im competing this weekend, schooling the following and competing again the week after that.... so when the bloody hell can i fit it all in??
At this time, I need to send off his passport to register him with BSJA plus I need to send it off to reg him for change of ownership.
Where as BE are quite happy to accept photocopies.
BLOOMING HECK
Not only that, I have the vet coming out next week to vacinate them all so I cant send them anywhere.
Oh and Im competing this weekend, schooling the following and competing again the week after that.... so when the bloody hell can i fit it all in??
Malibu
Well-Known Member
i would think a photo copy would be suffcient.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
I keep laminated photocopies in the trailer
If I ever DID get stopped and asked to produce, I would produce these - if they had a go I would explain that the origs are kept in a safe and sorry, didnt realise this wouldnt be good enough
If I ever DID get stopped and asked to produce, I would produce these - if they had a go I would explain that the origs are kept in a safe and sorry, didnt realise this wouldnt be good enough
summertoots
Well-Known Member
Get in touch with your RC or BE as they could probably answer this for you, remember to say that you are in Scotland though as there could be diferent laws here from the rest of the UK. I have never been asked to produce a passport, but take them when ever we go to shows, not when we are going for lessons though.
foraday
Well-Known Member
Photocopies are not acceptable to Trading Standards who are the enforcement authorities in the Passports. They see it quite simply-no passport= money in their bank!
It is a £2000 fine for travelling without.
It is a £2000 fine for travelling without.
Nic
Well-Known Member
Judie
Well-Known Member
Just emailing an 'enforcement officer' who would be the one checking your lorry & passport....will get back to you.
Nic
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well IMO thats just ruddy crap.
At this time, I need to send off his passport to register him with BSJA plus I need to send it off to reg him for change of ownership.
Where as BE are quite happy to accept photocopies.
BLOOMING HECK
Not only that, I have the vet coming out next week to vacinate them all so I cant send them anywhere.
Oh and Im competing this weekend, schooling the following and competing again the week after that.... so when the bloody hell can i fit it all in??
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto just about all of that BB's between weekly lessons, jabs, training & travellig him to get him used to the lorry I'll never be able to update it.
Total bleeding con if they fine you.
Never been stopped but have to produce it at BE.
It'd be fine if you could send passport off Monday am & get it Friday but these places take forever!
Well IMO thats just ruddy crap.
At this time, I need to send off his passport to register him with BSJA plus I need to send it off to reg him for change of ownership.
Where as BE are quite happy to accept photocopies.
BLOOMING HECK
Not only that, I have the vet coming out next week to vacinate them all so I cant send them anywhere.
Oh and Im competing this weekend, schooling the following and competing again the week after that.... so when the bloody hell can i fit it all in??
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto just about all of that BB's between weekly lessons, jabs, training & travellig him to get him used to the lorry I'll never be able to update it.
Total bleeding con if they fine you.
Never been stopped but have to produce it at BE.
It'd be fine if you could send passport off Monday am & get it Friday but these places take forever!
Nic
Well-Known Member
FANTASTIC! You are a star
JM07
Well-Known Member
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/id-move/horses/index.htm
It is now an offence for an owner to:
export a horse
use a horse for the purposes of competitions
move a horse to the premises of a new keeper
present for slaughter for human consumption
sell a horse
use a horse for breeding purposes
if the horse is not accompanied by a valid passport.
It is now an offence for an owner to:
export a horse
use a horse for the purposes of competitions
move a horse to the premises of a new keeper
present for slaughter for human consumption
sell a horse
use a horse for breeding purposes
if the horse is not accompanied by a valid passport.
catnumber5
Well-Known Member
If you do get a reply - could you put it on the forum - as then we could all carry the "evidence" if we are stopped. Seems to me that different people are told different info - depending on who they speak to. I was given this info from DEFRA - which maybe wasn't the right body to ask.
OWLIE185
Well-Known Member
The sensible thing to do is to take your pasport to your solicitor and asked him to take some copies of it sign, date and stamp them with his practices stamp.
Then send off your passport by Special Delivery (Make a complete photocopy of the completed Special Delivery form and attach to the copy of your passport) to the issuing body for the ammendments to be made.
Carry the copies of the passport and Special delivery sl;ip with you and in the event of you being stopped to can demonstrate that you have sent a valid passport off to the issuing body to be ammended.
Then send off your passport by Special Delivery (Make a complete photocopy of the completed Special Delivery form and attach to the copy of your passport) to the issuing body for the ammendments to be made.
Carry the copies of the passport and Special delivery sl;ip with you and in the event of you being stopped to can demonstrate that you have sent a valid passport off to the issuing body to be ammended.
catnumber5
Well-Known Member
Nic
Well-Known Member
But will it be enough? Is it a case of if it is not the original you will be fined?
Rambo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Photocopies are not acceptable to Trading Standards who are the enforcement authorities in the Passports. They see it quite simply-no passport= money in their bank!
It is a £2000 fine for travelling without.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do NOT need a passport if you are taking your horse for exercise or training. Only if you are going to a competition, or moving him to a new home.
They can 'think' what they like....they don't make the law though, they just enforce it and so will not be able to fine you unless you are competing or moving yards
Photocopies are not acceptable to Trading Standards who are the enforcement authorities in the Passports. They see it quite simply-no passport= money in their bank!
It is a £2000 fine for travelling without.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do NOT need a passport if you are taking your horse for exercise or training. Only if you are going to a competition, or moving him to a new home.
They can 'think' what they like....they don't make the law though, they just enforce it and so will not be able to fine you unless you are competing or moving yards
Rambo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
that sounds like an excellent idea. Seems crazy that you can't move while you are waiting (forever) for passports to come back. Suppose you had to take horse to vets and your passport was away? Are you supposed to just leave it sick?
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't need the passport to take your horse to the vet....see above
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't need the passport to take your horse to the vet....see above
Nic
Well-Known Member
Ta Rambo!
Weezy
Well-Known Member
So you can move a horse for a hack/to the vets with no paperwork - there you go, theres the answer people!
Gingernags
Well-Known Member
But they cannot expect you to not compete whilst a change of ownership goes through, that would be ridiculous, and what happened if you had to move yards in an emergency?
Personally I'd just go and IF stopped, well the horse does have a valid passport, provide a copy and postage receipt as Owlie said, and refer them to your PIO. As I say the horse DOES have one, however you are complying with the part of the legislation that says you have to send it off within 30 days to put your details on.
Surely - unless the legal bods here can prove me wrong - it must be like the case of a car - changing the owner on the log book - they don't say you can't drive it whilst its being changed do they? My sister got points for speeding but her licence was away for a change of address - she put that in writing and they "suspended" the points and fine for so many days so she could send it. There was no problem with her not being able to produce it there and then, she got an extension.
I think should they try to fine someone and the case went to court under these circumstances, surely common sense would prevail and the owner would win as its not that the owner is refusing to buy a passport, and a reasonable period of time would have to be provided to produce it.
Personally I'd just go and IF stopped, well the horse does have a valid passport, provide a copy and postage receipt as Owlie said, and refer them to your PIO. As I say the horse DOES have one, however you are complying with the part of the legislation that says you have to send it off within 30 days to put your details on.
Surely - unless the legal bods here can prove me wrong - it must be like the case of a car - changing the owner on the log book - they don't say you can't drive it whilst its being changed do they? My sister got points for speeding but her licence was away for a change of address - she put that in writing and they "suspended" the points and fine for so many days so she could send it. There was no problem with her not being able to produce it there and then, she got an extension.
I think should they try to fine someone and the case went to court under these circumstances, surely common sense would prevail and the owner would win as its not that the owner is refusing to buy a passport, and a reasonable period of time would have to be provided to produce it.
foraday
Well-Known Member
http://www.findhorsetransport.com/doc/passports[1].pdf
Here is the actual law regarding passports for everyone to download a copy. This is what your local Trading Standards Officers are reading from. Remember each Local Authority has its own trading standards departments.
Horse and Hound often report how daft some of the enforcement officers are when stopping horse lorries.
Trading Standards see it as a quick 'get rich' and 'easy prosecution' scheme.
A lot of the vets actually want to see your passport so they can write what drugs the horses have had.
All you can do is speak direct to your PIO and ask them to send the passport back next day by special delivery.
Certainly weatherbys can do this for the billions of racehorses that are registered and constantly moving about so the other PIOs should be able to do the same for the couple of thousand of passports that they deal with.
Here is the actual law regarding passports for everyone to download a copy. This is what your local Trading Standards Officers are reading from. Remember each Local Authority has its own trading standards departments.
Horse and Hound often report how daft some of the enforcement officers are when stopping horse lorries.
Trading Standards see it as a quick 'get rich' and 'easy prosecution' scheme.
A lot of the vets actually want to see your passport so they can write what drugs the horses have had.
All you can do is speak direct to your PIO and ask them to send the passport back next day by special delivery.
Certainly weatherbys can do this for the billions of racehorses that are registered and constantly moving about so the other PIOs should be able to do the same for the couple of thousand of passports that they deal with.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
Section 17 being the pertinent info then
ThomasTank
Well-Known Member
Well for what its worth I think the whole passport thing is a complete joke and the government wanting to know who these horses are and where they are so they can tax people for businesses when they realise 'mrs smith' is being paid livery money for keeping her friends horse in her paddocks behind her house. When they have all the data sorted in their computers, mr tax man will be very busy indeed !!
catnumber5
Well-Known Member
Hadn't looked at that!! But on the other hand - doesn't the vet have to record all drugs on passport? It's all a catch 22 really. I am sure a vet would treat horse anyway - though after vet being barred for backdating vaccinations - maybe they will get more stroppy now as well.
Nic
Well-Known Member
Didn't you hear common sense is dead!
jinglejoys
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well for what its worth I think the whole passport thing is a complete joke and the government wanting to know who these horses are and where they are so they can tax people for businesses when they realise 'mrs smith' is being paid livery money for keeping her friends horse in her paddocks behind her house. When they have all the data sorted in their computers, mr tax man will be very busy indeed !!
[/ QUOTE ]
I said that when it was first slipped in quietly but instead of everyone saying that they were more worried about being fined (And it wasn't even law yet)
If it had been ONE agency and ONE price I might've been less against them but the sneaky government allowed lots of agencys all with their own agenda (money) so they were'nt going to fight it,
Lawd help us when Western Nile Desease reaches this country they went hysterical enough killing bovines during F&M and that wasn't even contageous to humans.Imagine what they will do to our equines now they know where they are!
Well for what its worth I think the whole passport thing is a complete joke and the government wanting to know who these horses are and where they are so they can tax people for businesses when they realise 'mrs smith' is being paid livery money for keeping her friends horse in her paddocks behind her house. When they have all the data sorted in their computers, mr tax man will be very busy indeed !!
[/ QUOTE ]
I said that when it was first slipped in quietly but instead of everyone saying that they were more worried about being fined (And it wasn't even law yet)
If it had been ONE agency and ONE price I might've been less against them but the sneaky government allowed lots of agencys all with their own agenda (money) so they were'nt going to fight it,
Lawd help us when Western Nile Desease reaches this country they went hysterical enough killing bovines during F&M and that wasn't even contageous to humans.Imagine what they will do to our equines now they know where they are!