Travelling without breast bar / nothing to put head over.

[Polos Mum]

Evening lovely H&H people. I'd welcome your thoughts on travelling in the new fashion for 'stallion' horse boxes which have very tall partitions and no breast bar.

Does anyone have any experience of how they travel with nothing to brace themselves against. Most are rear facing so when you brake they can lean their bums on the back.
But when you accelerate they only have their heads to rest on the wall - which can't make it the easiest ? or am I missing something.

Do they not get a bit claustrophobic with almost a full height partition ?

I don't like the look of the ones which have a half height wall and the horses head in the tack area - hay would be everywhere and one day one of them would definitely have a go a climbing into the tack area for horse entertainment!
Breast bars seem to be out of fashion and replaced by the so called 'stallion box'

I'm looking to upgrade from Ifor 510 which is big light airy and they travel nicely in - suggestions welcome

 

[bouncing_ball]

I have a forward facing 5 tonne lorry. With a breast bar.

So have cab, living, horse area.

There is no incentive to jump breast bar as too high. And no where to go. But it would give some protection in a sudden stop.

If I had backward facing, I think I’d want the v shaped top door so can jump but can get head over and hay in the living would be unavoidable.

I’ve known horses hit heads and get whiplash at sudden breaking with no breast bar or head over space.

 

[Tiddlypom]

How fast do you normally accelerate when travelling a horse ? Very steadily, I hope... If the horse is head butting the wall to balance, then something is going wrong.

I really rate the stallion boxes, but do hire one first to test that you and the neds both approve .

 

[ycbm]

Lorries don't have breast bars. My van has one and the horses never get near it.
.

 

[bouncing_ball]

How fast do you normally accelerate when travelling a horse ? Very steadily, I hope... If the horse is head butting the wall to balance, then something is going wrong.

I really rate the stallion boxes, but do hire one first to test that you and the neds both approve .

I wasn’t the driver in question. Another driver’s behaviour in front needed an emergency stop. There was a weak breast bar and it collapsed. Horses head butted the wall.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Lorries don't have breast bars. My van has one and the horses never get near it.
.

My 5 tonne lorry definitely has a breast bar. As did my last 6 tonne lorry.

Sideways or slant lorries obviously don’t.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I wasn’t the driver in question. Another driver’s behaviour in front needed an emergency stop. There was a weak breast bar and it collapsed. Horses head butted the wall.

Sorry, my comment re accelerating was in response to the OP, who was concerned about what the horses rest their heads on when accelerating. We cross posted.

In an emergency stop in a rear facing stallion box, the horse braces with its bum against the rear wall.

 

[ycbm]

My 5 tonne lorry definitely has a breast bar. As did my last 6 tonne lorry.

Sideways or slant lorries obviously don’t.

There are long side aligned 5, 6 and 7.5t that don't have breast bars.

As I said, my 3.5t rear facing had one and I watch the camera and I've never seen a horse get anywhere near it.

 

[ycbm]

My 5 tonne lorry definitely has a breast bar. As did my last 6 tonne lorry.

Sideways or slant lorries obviously don’t.

There are long side aligned 5, 6 and 7.5t that don't have brea0t bars.

As I said, my 3.5t rear facing has one and I watch the camera and I've never seen a horse get anywhere near it. In an accident they would still headbutt the wall in spite of it. You would need trailer-type space in front of the breast bar to avoid that.
.

 

[ycbm]

There is no incentive to jump breast bar as too high and nowhere to go.

I take it you've never seen a horse try to come out of the jockey door of a trailer with a proper height breast bar or climb onto the tack locker of a sideways partitioned lorry?
.

 

[Polos Mum]

Lorries don't have breast bars. My van has one and the horses never get near it.
.

Aren't most lorries herringbone ? and so in stop / start they lean on the partitions a lot (well mine do) they spread their legs underneath for balance.

 

[Polos Mum]

How fast do you normally accelerate when travelling a horse ? Very steadily, I hope... If the horse is head butting the wall to balance, then something is going wrong.

I really rate the stallion boxes, but do hire one first to test that you and the neds both approve .

No accelerating hard at all but what do they balance with if in an empty square space ?

In the herringbone lorry they lean on the partitions a lot and in trailer lean on the front a lot too - well mine do - even going down a steep hill they can't hold on to the floor ?

 

[Polos Mum]

I take it you've never seen a horse try to come out of the jockey door of a trailer with a proper height breast bar or climb onto the tack locker of a sideways partitioned lorry?
.

I have see lots of mad attempts to self harm by climbing over the too high bars or get stuck on top of tack lockers - but not every day and isn't that why the bars are collapsable.

The trailer you can undo the breast bars from the outside so you can get the silly one down without getting in harms way.

The one one I have seen with a breast bar (sadly too old) had a bolt you could undo in an emergency to get them off the bar.

 

[ycbm]

No accelerating hard at all but what do they balance with if in an empty square space ?

In the herringbone lorry they lean on the partitions a lot and in trailer lean on the front a lot too - well mine do - even going down a steep hill they can't hold on to the floor ?

I watch my horses while my OH drives, they don't lean on the side wall, the back wall, the partition or the beast bar. They balance.

The suggestion for bad/scrabbling travellers is always to remove the partition and give more space, and it generally resolved the problem.
.

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

My baby pony arrived in rear facing 3.5ton box with no breast bars, he came off after a very long journey very happy and didn't look as though he'd been using his head or his bum to balance on the wall on either end. They sent me loads of photos and a video of him on the way and in every one of them he's stood well back from the wall happily munching on his haynet. I think I prefer the no breast bar option especially with a young horse there's less possibilities for them injuring themselves trying to go over, under or through the bar.

 

[milliepops]

Mine all seem to travel differently, some stay close to the front and some close to the back wall but none have needed to lean on anything. I had rear facing boxes before, now herringbone.

 

[Tiddlypom]

My good travellers don't lean on anything in transit - I have cctv so we can see how they stand. They spread their legs a bit for steadiness, and carry on munching their haynets.

I have an Ifor 510, and have the breast and breech bars set up with a good 12" clearance front and back, and there is also plenty of width for them to adjust their position slightly sideways with the partition in.

If a horse starts to lean for support, IME it is the start of a physical problem, and a prelude to scrabbling.

It's a lot easier for a horse to use its 4 legs to balance on while travelling without leaning than it would be for us with our 2. As a young person I have travelled in the back of a trailer with a friend and two horses up while her Dad towed us to a PC rally with his tractor . Not the safest thing to do, even back 50 or so years ago, and my friend and I did have to hang on pretty tightly!

 

[rara007]

You don’t want them leaning their chest onto anything. Creates all kinds of unnatural tensions.

 

[ester]

F is a superb traveller but did get very hot in a friends stallion box, didn't do anything visible just stood there munching hay but my general thought was that because he was so short coupled and eating hay his arse was quite a long way from the bulkhead so he couldnt' use any leaning to assist, it was all core work ?

 

[Rowreach]

My good travellers don't lean on anything in transit - I have cctv so we can see how they stand. They spread their legs a bit for steadiness, and carry on munching their haynets.

I have an Ifor 510, and have the breast and breech bars set up with a good 12" clearance front and back, and there is also plenty of width for them to adjust their position slightly sideways with the partition in.

If a horse starts to lean for support, IME it is the start of a physical problem, and a prelude to scrabbling.

It's a lot easier for a horse to use its 4 legs to balance on while travelling without leaning than it would be for us with our 2. As a young person I have travelled in the back of a trailer with a friend and two horses up while her Dad towed us to a PC rally with his tractor . Not the safest thing to do, even back 50 or so years ago, and my friend and I did have to hang on pretty tightly!

We were always given a bale of straw to sit on, such luxury ?

 

[Puzzled]

In my opinion they definitely need to learn to travel in a stallion partition but it doesn’t take them long. My own horses soon learnt to stand and don’t try and balance on anything. The babies may occasionally try and lean on the wall or partition but they soon learn to balance themselves. I’m a horse dealer and travel a huge number of young horses and just wouldn’t feel comfortable using a lorry with a breast bar that they could jump over…horses can find lots of ways of self harming without help! Im extra careful when they first travel (especially around bends) and I have to say that they all load beautifully in the smaller lorry.

 

[Abacus]

I bought a 3.5t lorry with a stallion partition having always had breast bars. First time out my horse had an accident, not sure what happened but he ended up with a major cut on the front of his face. He hadn't travelled well and banged around a lot (having always been good previously). Maybe he'd have got used to finding his balance but it put me off, I sold it and got one with a breast bar. The groom area is certainly long enough that he wouldn't bang his head on the wall behind whatever happened... so I put up with the hay

 

[Annagain]

I agree I don't think it's much of a problem in a rear facing lorry but if you felt happier about it you can get a sort of stepped wall at the back so they have a shorter stall length and an area in which to put their head but the whole thing is still enclosed to prevent them trying to get out of the back door. They have a proper name but I can't think of it at the moment.

ETA - Trevett & Smith call it a safety shelf design. It's not the term I was thinking of but there's a good photo here: Trevett & Smith Horseboxes Ltd- Horsebox builders in Salisbury - 3.5t Range (trevettandsmithhorseboxes.co.uk)

 

[Polos Mum]

Thanks Annagain, something like that would give the something to lean on - not all the time but for the odd wobble which youngsters / in experienced travellers must have.

It would have to be really strong though, I can think of at least one that would have a go at standing front feet on that - even thought they wouldn't fit at all.

 

[Birker2020]

If you travel a horse in a trailer I believe its a legal requirement to travel with a breast bar. But its not for them to lean against, merely as a precaution to prevent them coming through the front of the trailer and into your car boot if you had to do an extremely strong emergency stop at speed.

I know we are not talking about trailers but I just wanted to point out that I read that its a common misconception that breast bars are there to lean against.

 

[Annagain]

Thanks Annagain, something like that would give the something to lean on - not all the time but for the odd wobble which youngsters / in experienced travellers must have.

It would have to be really strong though, I can think of at least one that would have a go at standing front feet on that - even thought they wouldn't fit at all.

I think that's why it's sloped rather than at right angles. It makes it that much less inviting to try to climb onto.

 

[Leandy]

Stallion partitions are much safer for the reasons others have said. Hate breast bars. Have you ever had one panic and go over them? Not funny.

 

[Polos Mum]

Stallion partitions are much safer for the reasons others have said. Hate breast bars. Have you ever had one panic and go over them? Not funny.

I've seen them climb on top of tack lockers which is close I'd imagine. The trailer ones undo from the outside with an allan key because while not every day it's common enough you have to plan for it. That's why I'm really put off one that have a solid half wall for their heads to go over - no way you can take that down when they are stuck over the top. Some really well regarded makes have that which I really don't understand.

 

[Abacus]

The last couple I have had with breast bars are too high for a horse to rear over easily, and have also had V-bars which are even more discouraging. There are makes that have collapsible breast bars (Courcheval springs to mind). The breast bar in mine is up to about my shoulder.

ETA: I like to tie the horse close to the bar and ideally with a tie ring in the groom's area (obviously not too tightly). If they stand close to the bar it's another discouragement. Not that I've ever needed it; I haven't had a horse go over one in mine.

 

[milliepops]

there was a breeder recently who shared pics on FB of her horse who had jumped through V bars

I think horses standing on lockers is slightly different to those sloping walls, because there are often windows above lockers but generally not with the sloping walls. I had one retrofitted to my 3.5t and it went to the ceiling so there was nothing inviting to the horses.
I felt pretty comfortable with that, it was also probably stronger than the lorry walls! and was also removable as bolted on a bit like trailer bars. Since then i got a 7.5t and will only have ones without lockers in the horse area.

essentially everyone has to risk assess for their own horses and do what sits best with them.