Treating a foot abscess.

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Pale Rider said:
I have to say Graeme's explanation of a healthy hoof being under attack, leads me to the conclusion that shoeing will provide the right environment for abscesses to develop by the rasping of the sole and hoof wall which takes place and of course the nail holes.
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OK, now I will make your day.

You are absolutely right.

Shoes also trap moisture under capillary action, but probably worse they create mud traps which cannot be cleaned. Then in subsequent warm weather wet and warm conditions are created that see bacteria numbers in this area explode. I have been working for over 20 years now on methods of negating this problem. As a result I have reduced abscess numbers amongst my shod horses by 80% since 2002. Not only that, I have also virtually eliminated foot shatter, where the walls of the feet become 'shelly' and break away, the vast majority of WLD cases have been resolved, around 70% of all shod laminitics have had their feet rebuilt (depending on the severity and rate of recurrence of laminitis). Around 90% of flat feet have become normal because their strength and resilience is improved, the wall becomes more capable of supporting its share of the load and joints between pedal bone and wall are far more parallell as a result.
I hear a lot of people saying 'pull the other one' and others just thinking I'm advertising but truly, Im not. Its not rocket science. If you reduce the rate of destruction of the horn to a low enough level that there is more healthy horn created than is being destroyed, the foot becomes capable of doing its job as it should and horses stay sound and in work. That applies equally to shod and barefoot.

I note you live in Spain. With the higher ambient temperatures the ground there is likely to be much dryer and miosture to evaporate a greate deal quicker than it does in the UK. When it is truly dry and the ground is parched its likely that it will behave in exactly the opposite way to the prevailing conditions here at present, where mud is currently a considerable problem. Mud sticks to the surfaces of the feet constantly leeching moisture into them, softening the horn and saturating it. That encourages it to stretch and to seperate, allowing in the destructive forces.
On parched ground, the dust actually draws moisture out, which denies bacteria the moisture they need for multiplication and reduces their number. That hardens the horn quickly and makes for better conditions and creates more healthy horn than is being destroyed.

One of the benefits of barefoot is that during dry times the feet can readily aerate and reduce moisture levels quickly, whereas shod feet cannot do this. It is only once the shoes are removed they can aerate, so its an important consideration when shoeing. It doesnt mean that barefooters are completely immune from the ravages of the environment, as janei can tell you - but it does give them an advantage.

As a result, I am pro barefoot and try to keep as many horses barefoot as possible. I also try to rest feet from shoes where I can. But where I have to shoe, I try to minimise the advantage it gives to the destructive forces. Since working in this way, I find the differences between soundness levels of my shod horses and those that have no shoes on has been all but wiped out.
 
Goldenstar said:
I feel the need to warn the leavers that if a MOP rang the RSPCA and they attened a lame horse in a field that had recieved no treatment for an abbcess you could get yourself into trouble .
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It would make an interesting court case. The defence would be able to produce both vets and farriers as witnesses who will say that the best way to treat abscesses is to let them break out of their own accord if they will in a few days. By the time it got to court the horse would also be well recovered and the defendant would have photographic and video evidence of how short a time it took and how little damage ensued.

Burden of proof would be beyond reasonable doubt that the the horse had not been given treatment when it should have been, and since both Bute and antibiotics are contraindicated for abscesses, it seems to me that it would be pretty tough to get a conviction.
 
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Graeme I just wish your Registration Council could do more to ensure everyone's farrier was able to do what you can do. Standards are desperately variable and its a real problem for owners, who don't know who they can trust :( Your clients are some of the lucky ones, by the sound of what you write about horn quality and shoeing.



ps I don't know if PR has moved or is joking, but until recently he lived in wet west Yorkshire :)
 
It is unlawful not to get apporiate help for a lame horse that's what I am pointing out.
If you had advice been told its an abscess and been told to leave the horse that's fine your covered but people do call welfare orgs to lame horses in fields and what those orgs chose to do is very variable .
The very least you would get is a ticking off for not calling the vet.
 
Goldenstar said:
It is unlawful not to get apporiate help for a lame horse that's what I am pointing out.
If you had advice been told its an abscess and been told to leave the horse that's fine your covered but people do call welfare orgs to lame horses in fields and what those orgs chose to do is very variable .
The very least you would get is a ticking off for not calling the vet.
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Agree. If a vet confirms to a welfare organisation that the horse is being treated appropriately, and getting pain relief, fine, however people just leaving abscesses with no pain relief is prosecutable.

And yes, the RSPCA do prosecute for this.
 
I just had this happen after a stone bruise. Poulticed it for 3 days and it came out the same place as the stone was.

So when would you start riding again because she is completely sound, there is no hole, but the poultice still has stuff on it.
 
cptrayes said:
l


Ps watch what the hole does - it's fascinating! It will migrate forwards to the front of her hoof. Bowker's current explanation of that is that the sole is produced at the bars and grows forward from there. For that reason he says trimming bars is a no no.
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ooh, will look out for that, thanks :)

as for the RSPCA potentially getting involved in cases where an abcess is left to find its own way out, well fair play for them to ask what's going on if an obviously lame horse is in a field for a few days but I can't see as though they'd be in a position to try and get some sort of ruling that all hoof abcesses must be dug for?!
 
Kelpie said:
ooh, will look out for that, thanks :)

as for the RSPCA potentially getting involved in cases where an abcess is left to find its own way out, well fair play for them to ask what's going on if an obviously lame horse is in a field for a few days but I can't see as though they'd be in a position to try and get some sort of ruling that all hoof abcesses must be dug for?!
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No, but a horse SHOULD by law be made comfortable and free from pain as much as is possible.
 
Not so, Moomin.

Only if it is in the best long term interest of the horse.

And there is dispute about that amongst vets and farriers, as some of the above posts have shown.
 
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FfionWinnie said:
I just had this happen after a stone bruise. Poulticed it for 3 days and it came out the same place as the stone was.

So when would you start riding again because she is completely sound, there is no hole, but the poultice still has stuff on it.
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I would ride any sound unmedicated horse. It's good for their minds and their bodies and feet.
 
Goldenstar said:
It is unlawful not to get apporiate help for a lame horse that's what I am pointing out.
If you had advice been told its an abscess and been told to leave the horse that's fine your covered but people do call welfare orgs to lame horses in fields and what those orgs chose to do is very variable .
The very least you would get is a ticking off for not calling the vet.
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The point is G that no one is advocating leaving the horse badly lame for days on this thread, so by the time the RSPCA arrived the horse would either have popped it and be fine, or be under the care of the appropriate professional already.

It's simply not an issue.
 
Moomin1 said:
No, but a horse SHOULD by law be made comfortable and free from pain as much as is possible.
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Ah yes but fear of prosecution to drive horse care is not a way to go! It could lead to all sorts of inappropriate and unnecessary interventions just to be seen to be doing something. Severe broken leg lameness due to abscesses should not be allowed to go on for days anyway!
Horse care should be driven by horse centred careful and open consideration of the causes, situation and the impact of approaches on that individual horse.

I'm sorry if I was abrupt Goldenstar but to me that thinking is the wrong way round and not a valid basis for horse care or treatment.

ps. Some times pain and discomfort is unavoidable, just doing something and filling a horse full of pain killers is not sorting possible causation... this is a big problem I believe, we are so quick to jump in and try to fix things now without looking at the reasons why the horse is having problems.
 
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So how long would you wait before getting vet or farrier to dig it out? I think i read in your previous posts that the abcesses blew within days of the horse becoming lame which is lucky but I suppose lots of people would not want to see their horse being very lame especially if they don't know how long it will take for the abcess to blow.


cptrayes said:
The point is G that no one is advocating leaving the horse badly lame for days on this thread, so by the time the RSPCA arrived the horse would either have popped it and be fine, or be under the care of the appropriate professional already.

It's simply not an issue.
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SO1 said:
So how long would you wait before getting vet or farrier to dig it out? I think i read in your previous posts that the abcesses blew within days of the horse becoming lame which is lucky but I suppose lots of people would not want to see their horse being very lame especially if they don't know how long it will take for the abcess to blow.
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I have already answered this.

But to save you the trouble of reading the thread back I'll answer again.

Provided there is no infection spreading up the leg, and providing there is localised heat in one part of the foot, and there is a pounding pulse to confirm in-foot damage, then I will let the horse be severely lame for one day to see if it raises a blister on the coronet or at the heel.

If a blister is rising then I will give it another day to pop, if I cannot pop it myself.

So far, I have not needed any outside help with abscess resolution.

You need a lot of experience to know when to call for help. If in any doubt call a vet or a farrier.


It is easy to see a lame horse as severely in pain all the time. With a foot abscess, I believe that the pain is only really severe when the foot is bearing weight. Therefore a severely lame horse can look as if it is in terrible pain when in fact it is actually avoiding severe pain, not necessarily experiencing it.
 
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I was interested to see that someone said that Devils Claw is a good pain relief, because that is a common problem.

In my case horse came in on three legs, sweating and feeling VERY sorry for himself. Vet confirmed probably abscess and then because he was so miserable, gave him bute, although I had misgivings. But what can you do? Horse is looking in desperate pain, bute is the painkiller. I also know that it is anti-inflammatory and can prevent the abscess bursting. So it did. Several visits to dig holes by the vet, X rays in case it was a broken bone, and dozens of animallintex, duck tape and bandages later I had a horse with a huge hole that was on and off lame for 6 weeks. He got better in the end, but I have since then wondered if there was an alternative to bute that would have killed the pain, but let the abscess build up and resolve quickly.
 
cptrayes said:
l

The trouble with a hole too big to pack with cotton wool or a filler is that they can so easily bruise the foot where the sole is missing. If it won't hold a filler then a boot is your only option to prevent it, but I do worry about rubs if turned out in them.At least she can start work though, assuming she's now,sound.

I'm sure she'll be right as rain soon :)



Ps watch what the hole does - it's fascinating! It will migrate forwards to the front of her hoof. Bowker's current explanation of that is that the sole is produced at the bars and grows forward from there. For that reason he says trimming bars is a no no.
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As an aside, my barefoot for life mare grows bars too strong to ware down with road/track work alone. My trimmer has asked me to rasp down between her visits as they are causing bruising. How does this fit in with Bowker's explanation?
 
I really struggle to believe that the bars are too strong to wear on the road. Are you really suggesting that the hoof wall wears but the bars don't?

Does this bruising that your trimmer identifies result in lameness?

Rasping bars is difficult as they are inside the hoof wall and beside the frog. Are you sure we are talking about the same thing?
 
Orangehorse said:
I was interested to see that someone said that Devils Claw is a good pain relief, because that is a common problem.

In my case horse came in on three legs, sweating and feeling VERY sorry for himself. Vet confirmed probably abscess and then because he was so miserable, gave him bute, although I had misgivings. But what can you do? Horse is looking in desperate pain, bute is the painkiller. I also know that it is anti-inflammatory and can prevent the abscess bursting. So it did. Several visits to dig holes by the vet, X rays in case it was a broken bone, and dozens of animallintex, duck tape and bandages later I had a horse with a huge hole that was on and off lame for 6 weeks. He got better in the end, but I have since then wondered if there was an alternative to bute that would have killed the pain, but let the abscess build up and resolve quickly.
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I believe that Devils Claw is also an anti inflammatory.

I know it's difficult to see them in pain, but your boy's is a case in point. If he'd been in serious pain for another 24 hours, would he have been spared 6 weeks of subsequent milder problems??? We'll never know. Possibly yes, possibly no.

I would like to see some research done on this so we all know what is for the best. It would be so easy to do, as well.
 
sheepdog said:
As an aside, my barefoot for life mare grows bars too strong to ware down with road/track work alone. My trimmer has asked me to rasp down between her visits as they are causing bruising. How does this fit in with Bowker's explanation?
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You could try this:http://www.horsefarrier.com.au/products.htm#scs - the sole chisel, advertised halfway down the page. David is a highly respected Australian farrier.
That tool is used a lot here for overgrown bars when the long dry summer means hooves are as hard as iron...
I don't see bar overgrowth in four of my (barefoot) herd of 5, but do have one pony who develops excessive amounts of bar despite running on 100 acres of gravelly soil and being ridden up to 30kms a week (!!), so I take some if that off, although personally I would only trim bars when they are actually at risk of folding over (as seen in the pic advertising the sole chisel, although clearly that is quite extreme).
 
sheepdog said:
As an aside, my barefoot for life mare grows bars too strong to ware down with road/track work alone. My trimmer has asked me to rasp down between her visits as they are causing bruising. How does this fit in with Bowker's explanation?
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Not Bowker but http://www.hoofrehab.com/TheBars.htm

My understanding is as long as the walls are kept in check by enough work and or regular sensitive trimming the bars will take care of themselves. Obviously overgrown bars that fold over need to be trimmed but generally once the fold is removed and the wall kept in check the bars will find their own level that the horse requires.

ps. Only my lamiitic pony has needed her bars trimmed in the last 3 years, none of my other horses have and they aren't great big folded over monsters.
 
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Thanks for the link Ownedbyjoe. I think the bars are too hard to fold over, it would be more comfortable for my cob if they did, I think; it would stop the slight bruising I suspect.
 
sheepdog said:
Thanks for the link Ownedbyjoe. I think the bars are too hard to fold over, it would be more comfortable for my cob if they did, I think; it would stop the slight bruising I suspect.
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Purely out of interest where is this bruising and how does it manifest itself? Is your horse sore or lame when the bars are not kept short/er?
 
When sherrie's trimmer comes (every 9 weeks) and takes the bars down, sometimes there are tiny areas of bruising evident in the horn. Sherrie is never lame or sore. She's never had lami or absesses. My trimmer said it's simply that she grows super strong horn and if I worked on sand/gravel they would wear down naturally, but we don't have these surfaces.
 
I do not believe that any horse which is sound needs the bars trimmed.

Why not just listen to the horse? So what if you can find a little pink spot if you cut them back? If the horse was sound the pink spot was irrelevant, in my opinion.
 
cptrayes said:
I do not believe that any horse which is sound needs the bars trimmed.

Why not just listen to the horse? So what if you can find a little pink spot if you cut them back? If the horse was sound the pink spot was irrelevant, in my opinion.
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I do believe pink areas may not be bruising due to pressure but possibly dietary for eg, like pink areas that can show in the hoof wall. I wouldn't be concerned about trimming the bars if the horse was sound either.
 
amandap said:
Tbh I cannot see any need for an owner to have or use this tool in UK.
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Ah well, whatever. I'm just putting it out there.
I don't see many Australian horses that need it either, but David Farmilo and I have had to agree to disagree on a few things, mainly on the fact that he thinks a horse cannot be a "high performance" horse without shoes!! :p However his knowledge of hoof balance and how to trim a foot are second to none.
 
Dug out by Farrier, tubbed in salt water, and then hot poulticed until gone, when gone dry poulticed for a few days. I have seen a particularly nasty abscess appear at the coronet band before and it wasn't nice. IMO not treating it it a form of ignorance and therefore neglect.
 
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