tripod dog (nearly)

[Clodagh]

Dog chemo is not the same with the same side effects as humans, I thought the same but was corrected.

Oh, interesting. A friend did it to her dog and it looked dire to me, but I am no vet.

Personally, would I take a dog to Fitzpatricks? No. I would go to Dick White's though, who I assume is moving along the same lines but without the tv cameras. Or the sexy accent.

 

[{97702}]

Nothing can make change my innate reaction to the things I have seen on programme.

I am just pointing out that a good looking, charming vet on TV is being lauded for things in public that an anonymous bod in a lab coat would probably have been derided for years ago. It's not something I particularly want to watch on television but it's obviously great that veterinary and medical advancements are being made.

Exactly this - personally when I said I didn't think he had the best interests of the animal at heart I certainly didn't mean that he did interventions for the money, it is my view that it is done because it makes 'good TV' and adds to his 'superstar' image

 

[Fellewell]

Nothing can make change my innate reaction to the things I have seen on programme.

I am just pointing out that a good looking, charming vet on TV is being lauded for things in public that an anonymous bod in a lab coat would probably have been derided for years ago. It's not something I particularly want to watch on television but it's obviously great that veterinary and medical advancements are being made.

No one could argue with your sentiments here. But I feel we should really aim our anger at the people who breed such poorly put together dogs in the first place. There are serious breeding and management issues that need dealing with. Sometimes vets like Mr Fitzpatrick are quite literally just picking up the pieces.

Yes some of it is harrowing to watch, the lovely Boxer bitch for example. But in fairness he was trying to patch up someone else's work in that instance.

 

[mynutmeg]

With regards to Noel Fitzpatrick, I think he is an amazing surgeon and also appears to be a very genuine and lovely person. He is passionate and compassionate as well as being highly skilled. Unlike others opinions, I believe he is only interested in the end result and quality of life of the animal and not performing unnecessary and expensive operations just for the benefit of the owners. There have been a number of occasions where he has said that the kindest and only real option is to have a pet euthanised. He is realistic. I love the fact he is pushing the boundaries in animal medicine and offering treatments that before now were never considered possible. Rather than "testing" his often revolutionary procedures on animals in the hope they can then be used on people hs is campaigning to break down the barriers between human and animal medicine so that EVERYONE can have access to the same treatments ie. treatments that are already possible in humans being made possible in animals also.

I don't always necessarily agree that I would make the same choice as some of the owners who are put in the difficult position of risking a dangerous operation with a long recovery period, but do feel good that they have that choice.

This - you've expressed it much better than I could

I don't watch the Supervet programmes, but have done. There are only so many ops that are the same I can watch. I think what he does is more positive than not, overall, I also find him quite cute...sorry!
Some things, the dogs should have been PTS most defiantely, IMO.
I would never give a dog chemo, make is appallingly ill so you get an extra month or two of life from it? Never. Humans get to make an informed choice, dogs don't.

I also have no problem with any treatment furthering human medicine. How many veteran soldiers with no limbs could benefit with an implant? I bet they would be happy to be the guinea pigs, but English law doesn't allow it.

Dog chemo is no where near as hard as human chemo

I think one of the things to remember about the programme is you only see some of the patients, he has many, many more patients through the doors every day than are shown.

 

[Aru]

Dog chemo is nothing like human chemo.
Massively different dose scales and drugs involved and very few animals show the severe side effects that humans do.
Generally as the purpose is to extend life with the best quality of life possible, as opposed to cure like in humans so the higher severe dose ranges are avoided and as a result the severe side effects as generally avoided as well. Dropping white blood cells which can cause issues=stop dog chemo until the body recovers...in humans its more how low how far can we drop these without massive issues...lethargy risk of infection etc is to be expected because people understand chemo makes you feel like **** but want remission/to kill as many replicating tumour cells as possible so will go through the horrors in the hopes of getting out the other end alive. We dont do the same to dogs....their quality of life needs to be good as we are just buying time not cure in most cases...so it has to be "good" time.

Apparently less then 20 percent of dogs on chemo will show side effects,that will vary a but by drugs but as a general rule...severe lethargy vomiting diarrhoea etc is not normal or to be expected at all....thats very different to the the human side of things....where the joke is the sicker you are the better its working.

I wouldn't be a massive fan for all tumours or for all patients!...so many just wouldnt cope with the blood taking injections etc....
and in my head the time gained has to be worth the vet visits etc for me....
but for something like lymphoma,which is one of the most common tumours in dogs,it can give you actual remission or a significantly longer life for a dog.
Most of those dogs seem to be pretty much acting as normal on chemo.... and their owners get quizzed every time before bloods/the next ivs are used etc...and its a mix of tablets and occasional injections.....so basically very very different to humans as its a different key priority.

It is however very much personal choice for each person and their pets but hopefully the above helps clarify the myth the chemo is always horrible isnt really true for pets.

 

[pippixox]

well the thread has gone off on a tangent- but a very interested one! which i have just caught up on!

I find with some veterinary treatment it seems to be more because they can do it, rather than they should do it.

when my last dog Harvey got cancer it was too spread and aggressive and unlikely to respond to any treatment, but I also knew I did not want to put him through anything that could cause more suffering.


So puppy update- Asher-
basically he has the very top with of paw on the base of his stump and a callus is forming on the bare skin as it toughens up, which is great.
I took him to my friend who is a physio yesterday, for some tips.
there is not surprisingly a lot of muscle wastage on that side as a far as i know he had at least a month with it injured so not using it, then another month post-op not weight baring. he lacks muscle all over anyway and has a very poor coat. so it will just take time. We are going to do some exercises to encourage weight baring (he does when moving, but tends to hop off it quickly) and look into hydro or water treadmill in a few weeks, once he has had a bit more time to settle.

as well as physical issues, he has psychological scars to work through, unsurprisingly. He is scared of most men (as a man did the paw) and barks at my husband some times. he is some loving though and doing fab with our 9 month old baby and starting to play with Sky, learning how to be a dog

 

[pippixox]

my laptop is being crazy slow at the moment, so sorry no photos

 

[mynutmeg]

well the thread has gone off on a tangent- but a very interested one! which i have just caught up on!

I find with some veterinary treatment it seems to be more because they can do it, rather than they should do it.

when my last dog Harvey got cancer it was too spread and aggressive and unlikely to respond to any treatment, but I also knew I did not want to put him through anything that could cause more suffering.


So puppy update- Asher-
basically he has the very top with of paw on the base of his stump and a callus is forming on the bare skin as it toughens up, which is great.
I took him to my friend who is a physio yesterday, for some tips.
there is not surprisingly a lot of muscle wastage on that side as a far as i know he had at least a month with it injured so not using it, then another month post-op not weight baring. he lacks muscle all over anyway and has a very poor coat. so it will just take time. We are going to do some exercises to encourage weight baring (he does when moving, but tends to hop off it quickly) and look into hydro or water treadmill in a few weeks, once he has had a bit more time to settle.

as well as physical issues, he has psychological scars to work through, unsurprisingly. He is scared of most men (as a man did the paw) and barks at my husband some times. he is some loving though and doing fab with our 9 month old baby and starting to play with Sky, learning how to be a dog

That sounds encouraging - I hope he recovers well from it