Trying to put weight on a poor do-er over winter?!

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
I have a historically poor-doer of a horse, and he’s gone into this winter much leaner than I’d like due to various issues. Is it even worth trying to put weight on him, or should I just try and maintain him as he is, and hope that some good spring grass sorts him out?

When talking about weights he’s 16hh ISH (but likely mostly TB) and relatively fine build, all weights are on a mobile weighbridge.

Came to me from Ireland in June 2021 a bit scrappy and lacking topline, 496kg 1mo after purchase. Put some weight on over the summer and autumn, but come February 2022 had dropped off again. Put it back on over the summer, and actually got almost a bit fat at 540kg (BCS 3.5/5) Held his weight so much better last winter, don’t have an accurate weight but was still BCS 3 in Feb/March. Beginning of April he dropped all his weight and topline in about 2-3wks. He looked horrendous, absolute max BCS 2/5, 456kg. I don’t know 100% why, but he went to a specialist dental vet to have 2 cavities filled at the end of March looking great, and 2.5wks later was a hat rack, so it’s awfully coincidental timing if it’s not related 👀

He’s since been treated for ulcers (not scoped) which made no difference, had succeed test for hind gut ulcers (negative), full blood panel (all ok), been wormed and WEC regularly. Also had a bute trial and lameness exam, neither showed anything up. He looks a lot better, his topline has come back (at least mostly) but he still looks ribbier than I want. He’s now 513kg, still probably only a BCS 2.5/5 (although if you leave off the ribs he’s a 3 elsewhere).

Progress stalled when we moved to the other end of the country in October, and he got quite stressed and wasn’t eating hay or hard feed very well. But he didn’t lose anything overall, was 512kg in July and then 513kg in November, so it just set back the progress a bit. Grass is MUCH better at new yard.

He’s currently eating 1/2 Stubbs scoop am and 3/4 scoop pm (dry) A&P soothe and gain twice a day, with 1/2 scoop mollichaff condition complete. Im on full livery, and already buying the soothe and gain out of my own funds as he won’t eat any of the other feed (fibrebeet/speedibeet type things). Also wont eat grass nuts, we’ve tried several times. won’t eat micronised linseed, we tried introducing it slowly but every time we got to more than a sprinkle he’d stop eating any bucket feed even without linseed in. Was getting equijewel, and I’ve just bought a bag of omega rice to try. He gets a broad spec vit/mineral supplement (science supplements well horse performance), is out in the day and ad-lib high quality meadow hay overnight (2 big large hole nets which he rarely finishes)

He’s in full work, but not super hard over the winter. Average week ridden 5 times, schooling 1-2x, lunging once, hacking 1-2x, jumping lesson every 2-3wks, competing once a month. He feels great, no lack of energy or stamina. I could cut back his ridden work, but he’s so much better mentally and physically when in regular work. Honestly, he comes in quite stressy then after working, even just a 20-30min walk round the block, it’s like he lets out a big breath and relaxes. Plus it means I can make sure he’s keeping all the right muscles working to support his body, as he’s prone to poor posture and muscle tension if you let the work slip.

Sorry this is so p
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Last line meant to say: sorry this is so long, but I feel I needed to give the full picture because he’s a complicated boy!
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
66,617
Location
South
Visit site
When I had a horse that I needed condition on I fed Bailys Build up cubes and Alpha A Oil. He looked incredible on it.
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
58,887
Visit site
I have a historically poor-doer of a horse, and he’s gone into this winter much leaner than I’d like due to various issues. Is it even worth trying to put weight on him, or should I just try and maintain him as he is, and hope that some good spring grass sorts him out?

When talking about weights he’s 16hh ISH (but likely mostly TB) and relatively fine build, all weights are on a mobile weighbridge.

Came to me from Ireland in June 2021 a bit scrappy and lacking topline, 496kg 1mo after purchase. Put some weight on over the summer and autumn, but come February 2022 had dropped off again. Put it back on over the summer, and actually got almost a bit fat at 540kg (BCS 3.5/5) Held his weight so much better last winter, don’t have an accurate weight but was still BCS 3 in Feb/March. Beginning of April he dropped all his weight and topline in about 2-3wks. He looked horrendous, absolute max BCS 2/5, 456kg. I don’t know 100% why, but he went to a specialist dental vet to have 2 cavities filled at the end of March looking great, and 2.5wks later was a hat rack, so it’s awfully coincidental timing if it’s not related 👀

He’s since been treated for ulcers (not scoped) which made no difference, had succeed test for hind gut ulcers (negative), full blood panel (all ok), been wormed and WEC regularly. Also had a bute trial and lameness exam, neither showed anything up. He looks a lot better, his topline has come back (at least mostly) but he still looks ribbier than I want. He’s now 513kg, still probably only a BCS 2.5/5 (although if you leave off the ribs he’s a 3 elsewhere).

Progress stalled when we moved to the other end of the country in October, and he got quite stressed and wasn’t eating hay or hard feed very well. But he didn’t lose anything overall, was 512kg in July and then 513kg in November, so it just set back the progress a bit. Grass is MUCH better at new yard.

He’s currently eating 1/2 Stubbs scoop am and 3/4 scoop pm (dry) A&P soothe and gain twice a day, with 1/2 scoop mollichaff condition complete. Im on full livery, and already buying the soothe and gain out of my own funds as he won’t eat any of the other feed (fibrebeet/speedibeet type things). Also wont eat grass nuts, we’ve tried several times. won’t eat micronised linseed, we tried introducing it slowly but every time we got to more than a sprinkle he’d stop eating any bucket feed even without linseed in. Was getting equijewel, and I’ve just bought a bag of omega rice to try. He gets a broad spec vit/mineral supplement (science supplements well horse performance), is out in the day and ad-lib high quality meadow hay overnight (2 big large hole nets which he rarely finishes)

He’s in full work, but not super hard over the winter. Average week ridden 5 times, schooling 1-2x, lunging once, hacking 1-2x, jumping lesson every 2-3wks, competing once a month. He feels great, no lack of energy or stamina. I could cut back his ridden work, but he’s so much better mentally and physically when in regular work. Honestly, he comes in quite stressy then after working, even just a 20-30min walk round the block, it’s like he lets out a big breath and relaxes. Plus it means I can make sure he’s keeping all the right muscles working to support his body, as he’s prone to poor posture and muscle tension if you let the work slip.

Sorry this is so p


He sounds like a PSSM or other muscle myopathy candidate. I would try him on a high dose of natural vitamin E for a while.
.
 

Pinkvboots

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2010
Messages
24,257
Location
Hertfordshire
Visit site
Keep up with the omega rice and maybe try flax oil it's the same as linseed but more palatable one of my Arab's won't eat the micronised stuff sometimes.

Have you tried feeding oily herbs rosemary, thyme, oregano and spearmint I feed I think its made a difference to mine they seem much more settled, one of mine gets stressed if his gut is not right and his been much better since being on them.
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
I would try him on good quality haylage instead of hay. The protein level is higher in haylage.
Not available on the yard, it’s just hay but is high quality
He sounds like a PSSM or other muscle myopathy candidate. I would try him on a high dose of natural vitamin E for a while.
.
Have tried this when this all started and didn’t make any difference. He was on it for about 3mo. He also has had the pre/post exercise CK bloods and all normal.
I'd check for tapeworm and feed milled linseed alfalfa and a condition cube.
He’s been wormed for tape, won’t eat linseed meal, and is on a conditioning feed
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
22,505
Visit site
A fine 16hh type his weight doesn’t sound too off - how is his coat, skin and muscling?
Thing is we are so used to seeing fat horses these days it can kind of skew our perception. Plus horses like humans have a variety of natural body shapes so maybe yours is just a slim Jim?

Given teeth and worming covered, if skin and coat good, he is bright and reasonably muscled I’m not sure I’d rush to do anything. You are feeding an appropriate feed. If he drops a bit maybe add in a third feed. Ad-lib haylage too.
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Keep up with the omega rice and maybe try flax oil it's the same as linseed but more palatable one of my Arab's won't eat the micronised stuff sometimes.

Have you tried feeding oily herbs rosemary, thyme, oregano and spearmint I feed I think its made a difference to mine they seem much more settled, one of mine gets stressed if his gut is not right and his been much better since being on them.
He’s been on pure paddock, which contains all of those for about 2mo now. Haven’t noticed any massive changes, but it was all around the time we moved yards so it’s hard to tell

A fine 16hh type his weight doesn’t sound too off - how is his coat, skin and muscling?
Thing is we are so used to seeing fat horses these days it can kind of skew our perception. Plus horses like humans have a variety of natural body shapes so maybe yours is just a slim Jim?

Given teeth and worming covered, if skin and coat good, he is bright and reasonably muscled I’m not sure I’d rush to do anything. You are feeding an appropriate feed. If he drops a bit maybe add in a third feed. Ad-lib haylage too.
Coat and skin is improving, he had a few skin issues after his weight dropped. One rainscald type thing on his back, which took about 6wks to resolve. Then he’s had horrendous mud fever/skin infection since July, had multiple veterinary treatments for it, and that has only cleared up in the last 2wks. But he’s shiny, bright, happy and loves his work.

Can definitely try adding a 3rd feed, we can’t really add more to his current buckets as if you overface him with feed he just won’t finish it. I could give him an extra one last thing at night when I’m up there after work, and a lunch meal at weekends
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Soaked barley rings?
This is an option, YO feeds oats and barley to her broodmare and youngstock, and said we could try them for him also. Wasn’t sure if they were appropriate for a stressy horse? (Though he’s not actually hot or stupid, it’s more the gut health im concerned about)
 

Abacus

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 February 2011
Messages
2,388
Visit site
I would agree that perhaps he’s just a lean type, and this is no bad thing if he’s strong and healthy otherwise - less strain on joints. I’ve just added copra to the feed of my new horse (arrived skinny last week) and old boy (25, drops off in winter) as I’ve heard good things about it for condition. It’s also relatively cheap…
 

Mahoganybay

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 February 2009
Messages
1,482
Visit site
Are you feeding the recommended amounts of hard feed and Vit/Min supplement?

Is it possible to split his feeds so he gets fed 3 or 4 times a day. Also, get some good quality Haylage to feed alongside his hay.

You say he’s not been scoped but treated for ulcers. Why didn’t you scope and what treatment did he have?
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
I would agree that perhaps he’s just a lean type, and this is no bad thing if he’s strong and healthy otherwise - less strain on joints. I’ve just added copra to the feed of my new horse (arrived skinny last week) and old boy (25, drops off in winter) as I’ve heard good things about it for condition. It’s also relatively cheap…
He definitely is, tbh the only time you couldn’t see his ribs (or outline of) was when he was “fat”. He’s an event horse, and at that weight he wasn’t competition fit, and his recovery wasn’t as good. Over the summer he was running round BE90 tracks well inside the time (sometimes too fast haha) with plenty left in the tank. I thought about copra but mixed reviews as to how palatable it is, and he’s so fussy I wasn’t sure…

To be honest, this thread was more meant to be: would you worry about trying to put more weight on this time of year? Obviously if he loses more we will change feed etc. But is it unreasonable to just try and maintain him for the next few months, then if he doesn’t pick up in spring then revisit other options?
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Are you feeding the recommended amounts of hard feed and Vit/Min supplement?

Is it possible to split his feeds so he gets fed 3 or 4 times a day. Also, get some good quality Haylage to feed alongside his hay.

You say he’s not been scoped but treated for ulcers. Why didn’t you scope and what treatment did he have?
Yes and yes. As above, I can’t change his forage, as yard makes their own hay and that’s what’s available. He has had haylage at a previous yard and he was pretty picky about eating it tbh.

Didn’t scope because vets at the time didn’t have one, and honestly I had omeprazole from a previous horse so we decided to do a treatment trial, didn’t make a difference so didn’t continue or progress to scoping. Other than his weight he has no signs of ulcers.
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Also Im not sure if my replies are coming through because they all say awaiting moderator approval, not sure why that is? But I guess they’ll appear all at once 🙈
 

spotty_pony2

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 August 2015
Messages
913
Visit site
I’d be careful with anything cereal based due to the ulcer risk. Spillers conditioning fibre is fantastic for condition… my boy is on 1 scoop her day and has put on condition with that amount in the three weeks he has been on it!
 

GypsGal1718

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 December 2023
Messages
476
Visit site
Alfalfa is good for their gut as it has a natural buffering affect and is good for condition, having a big bucket of short chopped fibre such as alfa a oil available for him as much as possible may help him too, he may ignore it though but worth a try
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Alfalfa is good for their gut as it has a natural buffering affect and is good for condition, having a big bucket of short chopped fibre such as alfa a oil available for him as much as possible may help him too, he may ignore it though but worth a try
We could certainly try this, maybe in the stable overnight. He’s going to bankrupt me with feed bills, his full livery is meant to include basic feed but he just won’t eat it/it’s not high enough calorie. Good job he’s worth it, and that the livery fee is pretty reasonable 😅
 

SpotsandBays

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 December 2017
Messages
2,077
Visit site
I’d be inclined to try oil, (linseed is best!). I think you can get free samples of coolstance copra via their website, that’s supposed to be good also!
Alfa A Oil chaff is brilliant, but spendy
 

silv

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 April 2002
Messages
2,537
Location
new zealand
Visit site
Rice based feeds esp rice bran and equijewel are normally very palatable also great for weight gain. The Alfalfa oil is a good idea too.
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Rice based feeds esp rice bran and equijewel are normally very palatable also great for weight gain. The Alfalfa oil is a good idea too.
Yep, he was on equijewel, I’ve just had a bag of omega rice delivered today as it’s a bit more economical but ingredients similar.

Will try and pop into mole valley for some Alfa-a oil this week, and maybe some linseed oil too
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
honestly I think the fact we managed a big yard move and stress without losing was a win. Not sure how regular my access to a weighbridge will be down here, last yard used to get weighed when the lady came to do WECs every few months. Maybe I’ll see if I can find one I can take him to every 2-3mo, just so I’ve got an accurate measurement.
 

meleeka

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 September 2001
Messages
11,695
Location
Hants, England
Visit site
Soothe and Gain was excellent for my poor doer. The rep from A&P did say that even if you feed something else as well as, it’s still beneficial to feed a mug full . I can’t remember why but I think it was because it coats the lining of the stomach.
 

sugarpony

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2011
Messages
60
Visit site
Soothe and Gain was excellent for my poor doer. The rep from A&P did say that even if you feed something else as well as, it’s still beneficial to feed a mug full . I can’t remember why but I think it was because it coats the lining of the stomach.
That’s great to hear. He’s only been on that for about 2wks so fingers crossed makes a difference, was on calm and condition before but s&g appears to be slightly higher calorie and better suited for gut health
 
Top