Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
If not try Equijewel every horse I tried it on worked but consider the herbs
Trying to put weight on a poor do-er over winter?!
- Thread starter sugarpony
- Start date
If not try Equijewel every horse I tried it on worked but consider the herbs
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Sorry just seen this I would really consider that maybe something is going in that your vet has not picked up on, every horse I have put on Equijewel has put on weight so maybe something to think of now.
TGM
Well-Known Member
To be honest, if he is a BCS of 2.5 then that is classified as a healthy weight, especially for a fit horse in full work, which it sounds like he is. If he is otherwise happy and well and maintaining that weight, I wouldn't be tempted to start trying lots of different feeds, as that could possibly make things worse in the long run if he doesn't like the new additions or they upset him in some way. Only thing I would consider is adding a third feed of what you are already feeding him, as suggested above.
leflynn
Well-Known Member
I have a not so great doer and like to chuck a bit extra weight on him in winter if I can as he tends to drop it quickly (esp after a days hunting, also a TB), he's also quite fussy and won't eat more than he wants to but I find a tub trug of grass chaff does him well alongside his normal feed for keeping the weight on esp over winter
sugarpony
Well-Known Member
He did put on weight when he was on it, part of how we got 50kg onto him! He’s not been on it since September, was hoping he wouldn’t need it anymore, but maybe he does hence ordering the omega rice
sugarpony
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I was thinking along those lines, but I occasionally get judgement from other people who see him without tack/rugs. I think I’ll stick with adding the omega rice and trying to add an extra feed most days.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Two things I might look at would be adding oil and brewers yeast. Haylage would be an easy win as well. Both cheap as rest sounds fine. I had a professional equine nutritionist out recently and one of my discussions was how mine always look a bit crap in February. Over the years I have tried to mitigate it but it costs me a load of money and the results are not amazing. I think it’s a combination of time of year and work is upped ready for eventing season and the consensus was that’s fine and actually good for their insulin levels before spring grass. Mine are on leaner side naturally and they are all perfect weight as look great in coat and themselves.
I also had a ex racer who was on skinny side but he was building muscle and that was changing so didn’t worry too much.
The biggest bang for buck is linseed for calories and easy to add or in oil form via Flaxseed.
I also had a ex racer who was on skinny side but he was building muscle and that was changing so didn’t worry too much.
The biggest bang for buck is linseed for calories and easy to add or in oil form via Flaxseed.
rextherobber
Well-Known Member
I had to take poor,older horses off Pure Veteran mix and the Golden Oldies ( is that Keyflow? It's the Mark Todd one) as they got too fat, maybe worth trying that? I'm another Brewers Yeast and vitamin E fan
ElectricChampagne
Well-Known Member
I also had my ulcer prone lad on brewers yeast, it helps digestion of fibres in the hindgut. he thrived on it and helped him put weight on.
I had tried the equijewel with him but it didn't do much...
I had tried the equijewel with him but it didn't do much...
humblepie
Well-Known Member
I have had good results in the past with Equi Jewel for a poorly horse and Omega rice for a thin thoroughbred. My current one drops off quickly and did in September this year. He is older and I have used D & H Cushcare (he doesn't have cushings but it looked suitable for what I wanted) and he has put weight back on, even feeding less than their "weight gain" amounts. It can be trial and error with horses as to what works for individuals.
vhf
Well-Known Member
Try oily herbs? They accidentally turned my svelte, always the right weight lightweight ISH mare (who I'd fed for 16 years) into a huge chunk of a girl in six weeks - in late winter when I normally let her run fractionally lighter. She's a fussy eater too, Top Spec Comprehensive Balancer was the only way I'd got her to put weight on previously when in hard work, she will only eat very small amounts of linseed and only when combined with sugar beet from pellets (not shreds), doesn't like alfalfa, thinks grass nuts are poison, won't eat a large feed... I soaked them in with the sugar-beet overnight, with hot water if I wanted to enjoy the smell!
Abacus
Well-Known Member
Which oily herbs did you use and where from? I can imagine quite a large rosemary budget...
Ashleigh02
Well-Known Member
I had the same issue with my 17h TB. He was probably a score 1 when i got him. Could see every bone. I put him on solution mash 1/2 stubb scoop mixed with 1/2 stubb scoop saracen re-lieve mix and 3 150ml scoops of sumo original twice a day with a bit of alfa a oil chaff to stop him from eating too quick. I know it sounds a lot but it made a huge difference within a month his rear turned from a triangle into an oval type shape and he started to gain topline. After around 4 months his ribs were only just visible and he was in great condition. He was also on 24/7 turnout with ad lib haylage. Hay aggravated his ulcers and didnt seem to fill him as much as haylage does.
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
I know you say only hay is available but I'd try and buy some good quality small haylage bales in and mix it.
Copra works wonders on mine who has a tendency to drop weight. Its very palatable to lots of horses. Also rolled oats.
I'd also add a high spec mineral balancer (PE or FP, not the big branded ones) and salt if not using already to cover any possible deficiencies. Certain mineral deficiencies cause weight loss in farm animals for example, and I don't really see why horses should be any different.
Copra works wonders on mine who has a tendency to drop weight. Its very palatable to lots of horses. Also rolled oats.
I'd also add a high spec mineral balancer (PE or FP, not the big branded ones) and salt if not using already to cover any possible deficiencies. Certain mineral deficiencies cause weight loss in farm animals for example, and I don't really see why horses should be any different.
P.forpony
Well-Known Member
I have a lean type tb who sounds really similar to yours.
The main thing I'm taking from your description is that he's bright and happy in his work, and seems perfectly healthy.
I had an old vet once who always said he would rather see a rib than a roll (of fat) and its still my mantra.
Also horses are meant to be leaner through the winter months and put weight on through the grass growing seasons.
So from what you've said I wouldn't personally be overconcerned and would just focus on maintenance through the lean months rather than trying to gain.
The thing that makes the most difference to mine is temperature more than feed. He's just a cold horse, so if he's not rugged well enough he will drop off really hard and fast. Wrapped up and snug he maintains his weight and is a much happier horse all round
The main thing I'm taking from your description is that he's bright and happy in his work, and seems perfectly healthy.
I had an old vet once who always said he would rather see a rib than a roll (of fat) and its still my mantra.
Also horses are meant to be leaner through the winter months and put weight on through the grass growing seasons.
So from what you've said I wouldn't personally be overconcerned and would just focus on maintenance through the lean months rather than trying to gain.
The thing that makes the most difference to mine is temperature more than feed. He's just a cold horse, so if he's not rugged well enough he will drop off really hard and fast. Wrapped up and snug he maintains his weight and is a much happier horse all round
SEL
Well-Known Member
Well my poor doer was a draft horse and because he had a sprung rib cage and a thick coat the vets kept saying he was fine - until I got them to feel under the hair and we all agreed the ribs were too prominent.
There was a balance with him. I obviously didn't want him looking like a rescue case but I also found he coped with spring grass fine if he came out of winter a bit ribby. The one year he had good winter grass and ad lib hay I had a rough spring with hoof problems
If yours is otherwise healthy and not too ribby then I'd go for maintenance rather than trying to get blubber on. In my draft's last winter he got veteran mix & copra because my hay wasn't good enough which maintained him at "slim" rather than "ribby"
There was a balance with him. I obviously didn't want him looking like a rescue case but I also found he coped with spring grass fine if he came out of winter a bit ribby. The one year he had good winter grass and ad lib hay I had a rough spring with hoof problems
If yours is otherwise healthy and not too ribby then I'd go for maintenance rather than trying to get blubber on. In my draft's last winter he got veteran mix & copra because my hay wasn't good enough which maintained him at "slim" rather than "ribby"
vhf
Well-Known Member
I think I used rosemary, thyme and oregano. I bought them from a (human) food wholesaler in individual packets, and mixed them myself. Kept a bit back for the kitchen and it didn't work out very expensive. Had them for the ex racer as part of his transition to domestic life, old girl only had them because it made my life simpler, but they had far more impact on her! (Or at least, more obvious?) Not an expensive thing to try and unlikely to do harm.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
You need to try haylege .
Have you had any blood work done ?I want to do that do some now see if it showas anything repeat every twelve weeks and do a test as soon as you get a losing weight fast episode.
I would be sure they also look at chronic and acute inflammation markers .
Have you had any blood work done ?I want to do that do some now see if it showas anything repeat every twelve weeks and do a test as soon as you get a losing weight fast episode.
I would be sure they also look at chronic and acute inflammation markers .
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Another thing is you really need a hay analysis so you know the energy level going is from that, hay can be high or low in calories and all points inbetween .
There’s no point in filling up a poor doer who is not greedy on low energy forage .
There’s no point in filling up a poor doer who is not greedy on low energy forage .
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
PS I will trade you for an ID in work six days a week small amount of forage daily which I have just stopped he’s fat I have good field for them they are all holding weight too well ones even hunting TBF he looks the best .
Who the heck has to stop forage in a wet December for horses in work .
Who the heck has to stop forage in a wet December for horses in work .
sugarpony
Well-Known Member
I do think it’s more noticeable since he’s kept clipped year round for his comfort (he’s quite a sweaty horse). If he had a full coat I don’t think you’d really notice his ribs as much, so maybe am overthinking it
He does get these and has for about 2mo now, haven’t noticed a massive difference in his weight but his coat is definitely better.
Yes, he’s had blood work including inflammatory markers. Once at the beginning of all this, and more recently when he had to have blood pulled for strangles when he moved yards. Nothing of note either time. I could get hay analysed I suppose, where is the best place to do that?
He’s not lost anything significant since he originally dropped in April, put the initial amount back on fairly quickly over about 2-3mo, but it’s just the last little bit Id like on him that seems a bit slow, maybe 5-10kg.
sugarpony
Well-Known Member
Haha, ive only ever had fatties before so this is all new to me!
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Fromwhat you say above I would not worry he will be fitter and last longer on the slim side of ideal , Perhaps experiment with different forms of protein and see if it gets him building and holding muscle better .
Also try keeping just a bit warmer see if that helps .
If you have a losing weight with out a reason episode get blood work done again .
Also try keeping just a bit warmer see if that helps .
If you have a losing weight with out a reason episode get blood work done again .
sugarpony
Well-Known Member
Am aware he still needs more topline putting back on. Top photo was when he’d already stated gaining a little bit. Bottom pic is immediately post clip, and under lights, but his coat does actually look good at the moment. You also can’t appreciate the lack over his DSPs in the top photo, whereas his back now is nice and flat with muscle either side. In the top photo it just dropped off.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
They are good comparison photos.
9 months difference from an unknown mass drop in condition?
For me the positive is the muscle gain and shape over the quarters - heading in the right direction.
It’s easy to be distracted by the ribs (which yes, I would ideally want more cover on), but I think you have assessed the horse well and are doing the right things.
Keep him warm enough, add different forage sources if he is picky and I’d add a third feed of your concentrate.
If he relapses then I’d bring the vet back in
9 months difference from an unknown mass drop in condition?
For me the positive is the muscle gain and shape over the quarters - heading in the right direction.
It’s easy to be distracted by the ribs (which yes, I would ideally want more cover on), but I think you have assessed the horse well and are doing the right things.
Keep him warm enough, add different forage sources if he is picky and I’d add a third feed of your concentrate.
If he relapses then I’d bring the vet back in
nikkimariet
Well-Known Member
Scrap the chaff. Feed something similar that’s higher DE like saracen fibre cubes? They can be fed dry too.
Try linseed oil over the meal. It’s higher calorie / lower protein but is generally more palatable. How much are you feeding? You’d be surprised what you can feed even with additional vit e.
Have you tried copra? A bit like horsey marmite. Might love it might hate it, a nice person on social media might give you a trial size if you ask nicely.
Oats? Horses rarely refuse oats. They are a good source of fibre too but a bit more calorie dense and add bloom.
Flaked maize? Bran? (Latter a bit of a faff).
I’d honestly steer clear of big bulky feeds like Speedibeat in any case. You want small inviting feeds.
I weighed my 16.1hh very fine WB at vets recently he is only 510kg. He’s dropped a bit of chunk which I’m working on but if yours is similar size and shape he can’t be too bad atm?
Try linseed oil over the meal. It’s higher calorie / lower protein but is generally more palatable. How much are you feeding? You’d be surprised what you can feed even with additional vit e.
Have you tried copra? A bit like horsey marmite. Might love it might hate it, a nice person on social media might give you a trial size if you ask nicely.
Oats? Horses rarely refuse oats. They are a good source of fibre too but a bit more calorie dense and add bloom.
Flaked maize? Bran? (Latter a bit of a faff).
I’d honestly steer clear of big bulky feeds like Speedibeat in any case. You want small inviting feeds.
I weighed my 16.1hh very fine WB at vets recently he is only 510kg. He’s dropped a bit of chunk which I’m working on but if yours is similar size and shape he can’t be too bad atm?
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
I get mine from wholefoods thet are the cheapest I could find and I buy 1kg bags
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
Be careful with the alpha a oil mine went nuts on I.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
he’s a nice type of horse .
On another point he has weak looking thoracic sling add in work over walk poles if you can .
I do agree with IHW it’s a bit more rib than I think is perfect in a horse doing his type of work in a race horse he would look normal .My first event horse who was a large Anglo Arab always looked like that in the rib when she was working hard she had bulkier front she never changed .
However she was still hunting at 24 it did her no harm .
On another point he has weak looking thoracic sling add in work over walk poles if you can .
I do agree with IHW it’s a bit more rib than I think is perfect in a horse doing his type of work in a race horse he would look normal .My first event horse who was a large Anglo Arab always looked like that in the rib when she was working hard she had bulkier front she never changed .
However she was still hunting at 24 it did her no harm .
sugarpony
Well-Known Member
Less than that between these, exactly 6mo, 20th May - 20th November. He’s well rugged, on the warmer side but not so much he sweats underneath
I’ll try and get hold of a trial pack of copra, he may or may not eat it. It’s been a struggle trying to find something he will eat tbh, so definitely won’t buy a big bag until we’ve tried it…
Linseed oil I can get hold of this week, I’d been thinking of adding oil but wasn’t sure which type was best. Oats I also have access to, but wasn’t sure about adding cereals to the diet of a stressy horse, even though no known ulcer history…0