TURNERS ABBATOIR - RED LION

JanetGeorge said:
Unwanted horses would - ideally - be humanely PTS at home: that costs a MINIMUM of £300! If people have fallen on hard times and can't afford to feed their horse, they probably can't afford that £300! But taking the horse to the nearest licensed slaughter house means they get PAID - say - £200-300 (which could help with buying the kids' new shoes and school clothes!)
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um, not convinced on this argument sorry janet.
I entirely agree that slaughterhouses are needed for the animals no one wants, indiscriminate breeding and those ending up with bin end dealers that dont give a toss but IMO, if you have a horse that has been a good servant to many years as a private owner and you want to do right by it, you find the money to PTS at home.

Private owners have a DUTY to that animal to PTS at home wherever possible. Quite fancying the slaughter money to put towards a pair of shoes shouldn't even come into it.

If you're that hard up god knows what would happen if a vet bill came in although i realise there are people who keep horses on this hard a budget.

feck it, there's just too many horses and too little money around at the end of the day. All very sad.
 
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FionaM12 said:
What happened to Girlie? Has she vanished?
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She got scared by the old lady ;)


Horse slaughter shouldn't be banned, we are already going through a crisis with neglected horses, abandoned horses, waiting lists for rescues. If this stops we only add to the situation of horses suffering unnecessarily.
If people want slaughter to stop full stop then there are so many other issues to stop first, bin end breeders etc being one, churn them out every year disregard for what there doing, just wanting a quick buck.

What should be stopped is the unnecessary abuse these animals have been suffering before being slaughtered as shown in the footage.

I do not agree with the LITE campaign either, not only do they want to shut turners down, they also want everyone to donate money to them to rescue horses from sales. Pleading and making people feel guilty if they do not donate right that second the horse will be murdered because of them.
Most of these horses are being bid on by private people not turners or workers for him. Telling people to rescue without the knowledge, facilities, money or care actually needed. It seems more about giving them money on the spot then changing anything to do with slaughter.
 
Shettie said:
I do not agree with the LITE campaign either, not only do they want to shut turners down, they also want everyone to donate money to them to rescue horses from sales. Pleading and making people feel guilty if they do not donate right that second the horse will be murdered because of them.
Most of these horses are being bid on by private people not turners or workers for him. Telling people to rescue without the knowledge, facilities, money or care actually needed. It seems more about giving them money on the spot then changing anything to do with slaughter.
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you try telling them that!

its utter lunacy. The lady 'running' the group has her own issues which has resulted in her getting far too over emotional about wanting to save any mares and foals especially at any cost and frankly, i dont think she should be being encouraged as she's looking at things with 20/20 vision.
How to get these animals home or where they go once you've 'saved' them as people are being encouraged to do are not problems that are people on her group are encouraged to put a lot of thought into.

The whole group is an accident waiting to happen. You simply cant save them all from slaughter and its tackling the problem the wrong way round anyway.
 
Iv'e already tried, I got accused of working for turners, a private message a minute telling me I had blood on my hands and a murderer for about an hour, crashed my phone and I gave up trying to get back onto facebook :rolleyes:
Then got a witch hunt as I was evil :eek:
 
Shettie said:
Iv'e already tried, I got accused of working for turners, a private message a minute telling me I had blood on my hands and a murderer for about an hour, crashed my phone and I gave up trying to get back onto facebook :rolleyes:
Then got a witch hunt as I was evil :eek:
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heh

sounds about right.
wonder how many of these rescued ponies are going to need rescuing off the saviours this time next year?
i hate to be cynical, im sure they all have hearts on the right place but ego sure is making its rather unsavory presence felt in a lot of the 'thank god for me/arent i great saving ponies' posts from the W.J sisters. :rolleyes:
 
From what I've heard there's a lot of good work being done.
The campaign is growing in strength daily and some of the girls are financially secure and have yards.
 
Horselover39 said:
From what I've heard there's a lot of good work being done.
The campaign is growing in strength daily and some of the girls are financially secure and have yards.
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mmmm. well, i hope someone is because jackie's running out of room fast and anyone else seems to be looking for land to rent to put some on.

I hope you're right though but that wasn't wholly my impression.
 
Regardless of that. Potter's appear to be getting it right and Turners undisputedly wrong.....
Why do the family not turn it around..... Or is it too late?
 
But closing the ones who disregard horse welfare is very important.
With things as they are at the moment, others will fill the void if there is profit to be made.

I cant see how anyone on this forum can defend Red Lion. The ambivalence to this outfit surprises me.
 
hackneylass2 said:
But closing the ones who disregard horse welfare is very important.
With things as they are at the moment, others will fill the void if there is profit to be made.
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It's not as simple as just closing one plant, and using another to replace the service instead. Quite simply what needs to happen is that their processes are tightened up, and those put in a position of responsibility to monitor the welfare of the animals simply do their job.

I cant see how anyone on this forum can defend Red Lion. The ambivalence to this outfit surprises me.
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I don't think there is support on this thread for Red Lion, perse - just the service it provides.
 
amymay said:
It's not as simple as just closing one plant, and using another to replace the service instead. Quite simply what needs to happen is that their processes are tightened up, and those put in a position of responsibility to monitor the welfare of the animals simply do their job.

.......
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Not a waisted word.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Not a waisted word.

Alec.
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Perhaps we should, tell the Government to stop cutting Inspectors in All Licenced Slaughterhouses and do away with the self regulation of the Meat industry idea, I think the whole horsemeat thing should prove this! What inspectors left and Vet in these places cannot be in all places at place at once, I don't think it would be the case they not doing there job properly, its the fact they cannot, and they are not listened to when things are wrong. Made me mad to hear the quote about Bute "you would need to eat 500 burgers a day to have a harmful effect" (government spin doctor I suspect) so why they when the scandal broke did a almost overnight policy come in that all horse carcases for human consumption must be tested for bute and not released until a negative result for Bute received, if it not harmful then why test?:confused:
 
Bertieb123 said:
Perhaps we should, tell the Government to stop cutting Inspectors in All Licenced Slaughterhouses and do away with the self regulation of the Meat industry idea, I think the whole horsemeat thing should prove this! What inspectors left and Vet in these places cannot be in all places at place at once, I don't think it would be the case they not doing there job properly, its the fact they cannot, and they are not listened to when things are wrong. Made me mad to hear the quote about Bute "you would need to eat 500 burgers a day to have a harmful effect" (government spin doctor I suspect) so why they when the scandal broke did a almost overnight policy come in that all horse carcases for human consumption must be tested for bute and not released until a negative result for Bute received, if it not harmful then why test?:confused:
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http://www.unison.org.uk/asppresspack/pressrelease_view.asp?id=2935

Lots of info here!
 
Bertieb123 said:
.......

.. What inspectors left and Vet in these places cannot be in all places at place at once, I don't think it would be the case they not doing there job properly, its the fact they cannot, and they are not listened to when things are wrong.

Made me mad to hear the quote about Bute ....... so why they when the scandal broke did a almost overnight policy come in that all horse carcases for human consumption must be tested for bute and not released until a negative result for Bute received, if it not harmful then why test?:confused:
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Para 1, horses are not slaughtered on a conveyer belt system, as say sheep would be, because of the practicalities of the process. They tend to be dealt with singly and processed (bled, eviscerated and skinned), so there should be a Gov. paid official present, if the animal is to go for human consumption.

Para 2, the question of Bute is an interesting one. When the question of page IX was being raised, it was felt that the simple act of an owner at any time in the horses career opting out of slaughter for the human food chain, wouldn't be sufficient. What would be sufficient however, would be that if there were a drug used for horses which had "Previously", been banned and so removed from the human medicine chest, then this would lend support to the argument.

The simple fact is that Bute only presented a minor risk to humans, when administered, and the retained quantities within horse meat would be so infinitesimally small, that the risk is minor. It pains me to say this, but that Government minister was actually right!

The question of Bute was used to support page IX.

If we really want to worry about the problems of animals retaining fed substances, then we should consider that ALL of the commercially poultry which is on our supermarket shelves is fed a permanent diet of antibiotics. I suspect that commercially produced and housed pork, and possibly beef, are also fed such a diet, and we wonder why our resistance to ever more powerful antibiotics continues to grow. The only reason why these anti-bs are permitted is because were they not then the death rate from farmed livestock would be so great as to make the business unviable.

I suspect that the truth is that we don't really ever know what "Actually" goes on!! Worrying, isn't it?

Alec.
 
It's not the slaughter itself (although I despise slaughter of ANY animal and am proud to be vegetarian) it's the travel and abuse they have to endure before they reach their death. They are already treated like meat whilst they are still alive.

I blame over breeding, back yard breeders and dealers looking to make a quick buck. We have to slaughter horses, there are too many unwanted horses. Their fate would be far worse if we didn't dispose of them in this way. Sickens me though.
 
@ Niagara

Youre spot on. Like I did write before, I am living close to a "Turner" collection point in Ireland.

I have seen thousands of horses here waiting for to be picked up.

At the collection point they did get at least some hay. But their journey did start long before.

Left to good with no food many of them sick somewhere in Ireland and then brought to this collection point.

Here close to the mainstreet kept in such a way that most people did think well that is nice but this situation was only a temporary situation for to calm the people down.

The horses rugged so nobody can see the condition.

Many many of them no passports, but it is so easy to get a passport. Shipped from Ireland to northern ireland as a sports horse and from the north to UK.

I don`t mind to eat a bit of bute but it is like Alec did say. When you are sick, have a bit chicken or turkey and you will have all the antibiotics you need.

What is making me sick is the big spidernet of lies behind the whole lot and even more the situation that a horse or animals in general have to travel that far for slaughter.

Absolutely no sense, only for the big money factory of meat processors.
 
Fintan,

I'm not questioning what you say now, but I'm advised that there have been several slaughter halls re-opened in Ireland, and recently, so if that's the case, why are they troubling to ship them to England, and by a lengthy route, from what I'm told?

The thin, or aged or starved horse is of no commercial value to the Abattoir, for the simple reason that it's carrying heavily depleted flesh supplies, and becomes more of a liability to the buyer, I'd have thought.

I'm not suggesting that horses aren't shipped from Ireland and across the water, but if the animals are in the sorry state which everyone seems to say, where would the profit margin be, when a 16hh horse which is well covered is only worth £3-400, where is the profit margin in the emaciated?

I'm here to have it explained to me, but currently, there's little that makes much sense, it seems to me. :confused:

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm not suggesting that horses aren't shipped from Ireland and across the water, but if the animals are in the sorry state which everyone seems to say, where would the profit margin be, when a 16hh horse which is well covered is only worth £3-400, where is the profit margin in the emaciated?

I'm here to have it explained to me, but currently, there's little that makes much sense, it seems to me. :confused:

Alec.
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The Red Lion says they buy horses from Ireland and currently the FSA are looking into passport irregularities. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-21681291
 
@ Alec

you are dead right. What Turner did here was the average. He did take the good ones and the bad ones and by the amount he was able to get it did level out.

The next thing might be that the control at an abbatoir in Ireland is a bit more strict. Horses with no passport? No.
If you want them to be killed you have to pay about 300 or 400 Euro.

But when you find a little hole in the hedge, somebody taking care about the passport and not charging you and the job is done, you will save the money and many will go this route.

As well the Abbatoirs in Ireland have had waiting lists and you did need to bring the horse to them.

Many people dont want to face the reality and so they give the horses to others doing the dirty job.

Within the last couple of weeks every thing is a bit more quiet. Less activity.

But now when you pass the big hill in Ballymon (Dublin) there is a large amount of horses just left behind again.

Now county council has to deal with them because the way trough the hedge is not working as good as before.

It is not Turner alone, but Companies like this support the business in such a way as they make it possible.

It is in the very first beginning the owners. Some can`t afford the money to put a horse down and other will avoid it because for this money 300 Euro they can buy a new horse on Donedeal.

Normally we should do it in such a way like with kitchen aplience. When you buy a horse you have to pay a disposal fee up front and then the local county council or who ever has to take care about.

Nearly everybody in this game is guilty, breeders, owners and the industry behind.

But I like the idea with the disposal fee. Any horse has to have a passport like a car a tax book.

The passport should include the disposal fee. So "breeders" will think twice before they increase the population and short minded buyers as well.

Like somebody else did say, a horse is not only for christmas. Think twice before you buy one and make sure that you can take care about.


@ horserider

now there it is, black on white. I won`t call names but I have seen it over years.
 
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I can`t tell you because my horses are not for human consumption. And for to be honest when somebody is so tight that he can`t keep them for 8 weeks longer he is either in trouble because he has lost his job (sad enough) or he did not overview the full responibillity at the time he did buy the horse.
 
There have been fields of horses near Dublin all the 15 years my sister has lived here. She drives to Dublin every three weeks. I suspect there are fields of horses everywhere including UK that used to go for slaughter.

Apologies, just jumping in without reading the whole thread but I don't believe Ireland is the problem. It's the system. If you search the internet waste horses are also coming to Europe from USA and Canada... where are they ending up? Where do the waste UK horses end up?

I'm with Fintan everyone is responsible to some degree or another and the whole system stinks imo. Waste horses are unlikely to be drug free in my view and tbh many of the Irish ones are more likely to be drug free.
 
horserider said:
Isn't there an 8 week waiting list for horses to go to slaughter in Ireland ? Its an expensive wait to keep a horse for an extra 2 months.
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There's a waiting list at Potter's too, has been for a long time.
amandap said:
I suspect there are fields of horses everywhere including UK that used to go for slaughter.
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Yup. I could show you a few round here.
 
There is nations, breeding horses for slaughter and consumption. And I don`t mind, I even don`t mind them on my plate.

For some people this might sound cruel. But in my opinion, as long as a horse did life in such a way that it was no cruelty (and I wish the same for any other animal as well) and it was slaughtered without all the stress, it is OK.

If you do it properly the horse will not even realise this. I always did bring my horses when the time did come in person to the abbatoir, mostly on a saturday and I was with the horse till to the end.

There was never a stressed situation. Not for the horse.

Only nowerdays with all these killing factorys like conveur belts I don`t do it.

But I also don`t buy beef or meat from a supermarket that is in their supply chain.

I love my rural butcher, acting also in the sense of animal wellfair. Quiet and behaving like a priest, no stress and every thing with respect for the animal.

But there going to die. Since a KG of meat has to be cheaper than a KG of animal feed, there is no room for humanity and animal wellfare.

The factory process is meassured in "work units" like on a conveur belt and it is one.
Once when one person gets stuck in the process others are in stand by waiting for supply.
Dependend on the person that has to do the first part of the job before.

The system is wrong and we are a part of the system.

Looking for discounts for a "better world".
 
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