Turning out a clipped horse with no rug to lose weight ?

Humans didn't evolve to have central heating and wear clothes but we all seem to do it. If you want your horse to be uncomfortable - go for it - I'd rather increase work and reduce food...
 
I've had a lot of experience with getting horses to lose weight, not just with my mare but with numerous liveries over the years. By far the one most effective method is increasing exercise. If you do this with a controlled diet, the horse does not need to be at all hungry and the weight just falls off.
 
That's where I struggle with mine as he's not allowed to be ridden/driven/lunged or long reined but I can walk him out in hand. He's out 24/7 unruggged with just a lite balancer, I'm weigh taping him fortnightly and he has some to lose over the winter
 
Having had a fellow livery allow her horse to become "morbidly obese" - vets words - & subsequently suffer from severe laminitis, despite warnings by other liveries & then ignoring vets advice recommending a feed1.5% of fbodyweight per day, she decided, in her complete ignorance, that starvation was the best policy - it was hell to witness. I would definitely underrug if necessary but then I wouldn't have clipped the animal in the first place.
 
Further to other posts I think plenty of people would be happy to turn out a trace/blanket clipped horse out naked, it is the absolutely nothing which is an issue.

It is all very well saying that horses regulate their temperature well... a lot of their mechanisms for such homeostasis do involve the coat!

More work/track system/less grass/more old soaked hay or feeding straw would all be on my list before I followed the vet's suggestion. It doesn't sound like all of these are already being done.
 
Sorry not read all of the replies.
I used to clip and under rug a fattie for a few years, last winter due to her being out of work I didn't clipped. I left her naked without a rug and she lost a lot more weight than being clipped.
Nothing else changed apart from having no work.
 
ester said:
not fully clipped no, I would perhaps be under rugging a bit like goldenstar said but not fully clipped and naked and out.
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This - my mare is overweight and I am purposefully not rugging in order her to get her to use her fat up a bit even though there was a frost here last. But she isnt clipped yet and I would put on a rain sheet if there is persistant rain. When clipped and unrugged the low temperatures are probably fine but not when wet and wind chill is factored in.
 
cptrayes, I have just watched a programme 7.30 on ITV1 about the effect of low temperatures on people. 18 degrees is the lowest temperature that is healthy for people to live in. At 16 degrees you start getting respiratory effects such as increase in asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia etc. Below that you get raised blood pressure. After only a couple of hours they had to stop the experiment on the reporter as he was showing raised blood pressure and mild hypothermia. So I am not convinced that people should be using getting cold as a way to lose weight. I don't know if there are any experiments on horses, but personally, I will not be using cold as a way to help my horses or myself to lose weight. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
 
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Wagtail said:
cptrayes, I have just watched a programme 7.30 on ITV1 about the effect of low temperatures on people. 18 degrees is the lowest temperature that is healthy for people to live in. At 16 degrees you start getting respiratory effects such as increase in asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia etc. Below that you get raised blood pressure. After only a couple of hours they had to stop the experiment on the reporter as he was showing raised blood pressure and mild hypothermia. So I am not convinced that people should be using getting cold as a way to lose weight. I don't know if there are any experiments on horses, but personally, I will not be using cold as a way to help my horses or myself to lose weight. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
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That's interesting because I can remember when was a kid an old stud groom in the village tells my friend and I that you must never turn away lame hunters and let them get cold because they came up the next season with bad winds .
 
Personally I would follow the advice of my vet rather than a bunch of people on a forum. However I would ask if they (the vet) were really being serious with that suggestion.
 
Wagtail said:
cptrayes, I have just watched a programme 7.30 on ITV1 about the effect of low temperatures on people. 18 degrees is the lowest temperature that is healthy for people to live in. At 16 degrees you start getting respiratory effects such as increase in asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia etc. Below that you get raised blood pressure. After only a couple of hours they had to stop the experiment on the reporter as he was showing raised blood pressure and mild hypothermia. So I am not convinced that people should be using getting cold as a way to lose weight. I don't know if there are any experiments on horses, but personally, I will not be using cold as a way to help my horses or myself to lose weight. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
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We have nothing to disagree about :)

No-one was suggesting that humans should stay in the cold for hours at a time. The suggestion is short swims in cold water, or ice packs direct to problem areas.

The human research does not, I think, apply to horses, who have (I understand) much more effective systems than humans for regulating their body temperature.
 
I don't rug my tubbies over winter but I would not remove their coat and do so - the coat is part of the regulation process by removing I believe is being cruel as the horses can use it natural defences to improve its situation.

The analogy with humans is all very well but how many stay out all day and night - most would be back inside to heating to warm up - you want weight loss there isn't a shortcut get moving and eat less.

Someone mentioned horses were designed to starve over winter - this is ridiculous starvation kills horses and not just the weak horses are trickle feeder the extra over the summer months adds fat which helps with the limited calories over winter but horse's were always required to keep the movement of forage going thru their systems, winter they just have to work hard for it.
 
My slightly tubby but not obese mare has a chaser style clip. She has a rainsheet on if wet. Is naked the rest of the time. She's in overnight. She is naturally a warm horse but I wouldn't consider leaving her naked if she had a full clip. Yes I may turn out naked for a short period on a crisp sunny day to allow a good roll and scratch but would otherwise put at least a sheet on to protect from the breeze and any shower that may creep up.
 
No, I wouldn't.

One January, I bought an obese Draft mare, she had been clipped out by her previous owner and fed haylage and hard feed - some sort of local tack shop's coarse mix.

I was desperate to get her weight down, so turned her out by day in a rainsheet, which she kept on most nights in the stable. I stopped all hard feed and gave her a measured amount of hay, rather than ad-lib. As her coat grew back, she was turned out on good days without the rug, of course. Over 2 yrs her weight gradually went back down to a healthy weight and because her weight-loss had been managed properly, she did not develop any further problems, associated with the management.
 
I might clip out but agree under rug, hair has to stand on end to trap air for warmth, if no hair it can't so therefore rug needed. I would be incline to use lighter combo or rain sheet if better weather. Worry me about skin complaints.
 
cptrayes said:
We have nothing to disagree about :)

No-one was suggesting that humans should stay in the cold for hours at a time. The suggestion is short swims in cold water, or ice packs direct to problem areas.

The human research does not, I think, apply to horses, who have (I understand) much more effective systems than humans for regulating their body temperature.
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Why would horses have better systems than humans we evolved in similar climates ... At least modern horses did... And humans are a far more successful species...
 
Supertrooper said:
That's where I struggle with mine as he's not allowed to be ridden/driven/lunged or long reined but I can walk him out in hand. He's out 24/7 unruggged with just a lite balancer, I'm weigh taping him fortnightly and he has some to lose over the winter
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I would ditch the balancer, Shetlands are evolved to eat next to nothing over the winter and remain healthy. He really doesn't need those calories.
 
A musing for the cold shower theory....I 'cold hose' my legs most nights with the shower. I have nerve damage in my legs and they burn. I find cold water helps (even if it's psychological). I note no weight loss on either leg! :D
 
blitznbobs said:
But we didn't evolve to wear clothes and horses evolved to have a fur coat...
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Yes, we did evolve to wear clothes - that is why we only have minimal hair on our bodies. Horses physiology is completely different from ours, their digestive systems have a direct impact on the heat of their bodies, that is not true of humans. You are quite right that horses have evolved to grow a fur coat, that and the digestive system are meant to work together to regulate the body temp.
 
blitznbobs said:
Why would horses have better systems than humans we evolved in similar climates ... At least modern horses did... And humans are a far more successful species...
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What an odd question. You might as well ask why do horses run faster than humans. Of course different animals can have different ways of managing things.

Can we all please remember when this thread has run a few more weeks, that it was started in the warmest driest autumn on record?

OP, tell your friend to follow her vet's advice.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Yes, we did evolve to wear clothes - that is why we only have minimal hair on our bodies. Horses physiology is completely different from ours, their digestive systems have a direct impact on the heat of their bodies, that is not true of humans. You are quite right that horses have evolved to grow a fur coat, that and the digestive system are meant to work together to regulate the body temp.
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There are lots of theories about the hairless thing on humans - the most convincing in my book is the ' aquatic ape' theory not many of the, are to do with clothes. We lost the hair far before we adopted clothes...
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Yes, we did evolve to wear clothes - that is why we only have minimal hair on our bodies. Horses physiology is completely different from ours, their digestive systems have a direct impact on the heat of their bodies, that is not true of humans. You are quite right that horses have evolved to grow a fur coat, that and the digestive system are meant to work together to regulate the body temp.
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The digestive system does not change depending on the thickness of the horses coat. The horse regulates its temperature using the digestive system as a heat source regardless of what thickness of coat it has on. You can get very, very cold days in spring after the coat is already shed. They do not work 'together' as such, the horse simply sweats if it's too hot and mobilises fat if it's too cold.
 
cptrayes said:
What an odd question. You might as well ask why do horses run faster than humans. Of course different animals can have different ways of managing things.

Can we all please remember when this thread has run a few more weeks, that it was started in the warmest driest autumn on record?

OP, tell your friend to follow her vet's advice.
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This thread was started on the day where we had had a frost overnight. It has been bitterly cold and windy here in Lincolnshire. Yes, last week was very mild but the past few days have been bitter. It has been slightly milder here over night due to the heavy rain.
 
cptrayes said:
Can we all please remember when this thread has run a few more weeks, that it was started in the warmest driest autumn on record?

.
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well, maybe in Devon or wherever you live it was. We've had mild days, we've also had temps of 2 degrees, 70mph winds on 4 or 5 occasions in the last 2 weeks alone, windchills of -7 and biblical rain leading to flooding and landslides. Quite often the temps have swung from 2-12 during the daytime depending on how wind direction has changed, sometimes its happened overnight.
 
Having read your post, I think I would be changing my vet. Getting weight off a horse is one thing but now the weather is really changing making it downright miserable is something else.
 
Limit said:
Having read your post, I think I would be changing my vet. Getting weight off a horse is one thing but now the weather is really changing making it downright miserable is something else.
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The vet did not tell her to do this when the weather was like it is today!
 
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